Woodburning stove vs insert?

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darrylg

Member
Sep 20, 2010
16
Long Island
I am looking to purchase a woodburning device for the fireplace in my great room. A little background info: the room is approximately 600 sqft with cathedral ceilings and many windows. The main level of the house is approximately 4000 sq feet in a horseshoe shape. Ideally I would love to heat more than the great room, but I have few options to move the heat.
The dimensions of the fireplace opening = 30"h x40"w x21"d

What would be better for my needs, a stand alone stove or an insert? I need a long burn time (12 hours or more). I prefer the aesthetics of the insert over the stove, but I am willing to purchase a stove if the performance is greater.

Thanks
 
Generally speaking it is easier to get the heat out of a free standing stove than an insert - if you consider the mechanics of this for a bit it makes sense to have more sides of the hot stove in the room instead of heating up the fireplace. Well designed inserts, however, with the aid of blowers can do an excellent job of heating up air from the back and sides of the stove and moving it out from the stove so as long as you have electrical power applied they can do quite a good job as well.

The rest of the question will be one of getting a large enough firebox to fit where you want it (either in the fireplace opening) or sitting in front of it to do what you want. Heating up that 600 sqft should be no problem, even having enough to push heat out of that room. Heating up all the 4000 sqft home, now that I am not sure many would try to do with a single space heater - a furnace is better suited for that (I know, you didn't say that was your objective, but just wanted to put that on the table).

Aesthetics are so much a matter of personal preference - I happen to like free standing stoves, you seem to like inserts so I'd suggest you see what the best one is that fits in that space and go from there. If you can't find one that will meet your needs then explore the free standing stove on the hearth idea. If you don't have a strong preference then take a look at the perfect picture forum for some ideas of what folks have done with stoves in front of fireplaces - some pretty amazing results there.
 
You will get more heat from a freestanding stove verses an insert but it can't always be pulled off. With a house that big I'd look into the Biggest stove out there, the Buck 91. It can be used as either an insert or freestanding stove, so you could try either or.

http://www.buckstove.com/wood/model91.html
 
You can help move the heat out of the room and through some of the rest of the house by setting up a fan blowing towards the room/stove . . . but I doubt you will be able to truly heat the entire home with a woodstove/insert due to the size and lay-out.

Most folks suggest that a free standing woodstove would be better at extracting more heat if given similar sized fireboxes and construction . . . but inserts do a decent job with blowers. A possible drawback with inserts is a loss of power might result in the loss of the use of the blower.

Honestly . . . given your set up I would say it would come down to finding a stove or insert that fits your opening, your heating needs and what you think looks the best for your own home . . . at one time I was convinced inserts looked the best in a fireplace opening . . . but after having some nice free standing stove installs I now think either type can look good.
 
If you can fit the stove then I'd go for the stove. I chose an insert because it fit in the fireplace. The room is 14x22 and the fireplace is in the middle of the long wall, so a free-standing stove would've cut the room in 1/2. I get a ton of heat out of my insert, enough to heat about 2600sqft if needed, but its only supplimental. Mine is on one end of the house, not a central location.
 
A insert with good strong blowers is gonna move a lot of heat out into the room. And if you put a stove back into a fireplace, which you are going to have trouble doing with that short of a opening, then the blowers are trapped behind the stove and you have to pull it out to clean or replace them.

A good insert is the best answer. You ain't gonna heat 4,000 feet with it, but you won't with a free standing stove either.
 
Once you get an insert cookin it cranks heat without the blower. The blower just sends it further out into the outer extremeties if that makes sense. If you have a fireplace then go insert...if not get a big honkin stove.
 
burntime said:
Once you get an insert cookin it cranks heat without the blower.
Click to expand...

Actually that depends on the design of the insert. There are some out there that don't put out squat without the blower running. And some that say don't even burn in it if the blower isn't running because it will screw up the blower.

And no I am not doing that manual search again to find out which ones they were. :coolsmirk:
 
I can tell you I only have experience with a cemi 2, hampton, and a type of buck. They were all the same. I think its a natural convection type thing. I am sure there are some that just plain suck too... :lol:
 
burntime said:
I can tell you I only have experience with a cemi 2, hampton, and a type of buck. They were all the same. I think its a natural convection type thing.
Click to expand...

The good ones get it done. For twenty years I wondered if the big Sierra insert could heat the joint without the blower, with half of its monster self outside of the fireplace. A week long power failure gave the test. It kept the place acceptable. When I finally fired off the generator and ran a power cord to it, it kept the place warm.

Pretty much the same with the 30-NC half in and half out of the fireplace with the week long power failure this year. Of course I like the joint seventy or above.
 
Is your current fireplace brick / masonry? I only ask because when I see "great room" it says to me newer construction and possibly a pre-fab zero clearance type of unit. I personally would not put an insert into a ZC.
 
burnt2perfection said:
Is your current fireplace brick / masonry? I only ask because when I see "great room" it says to me newer construction and possibly a pre-fab zero clearance type of unit. I personally would not put an insert into a ZC.
Click to expand...
The fireplace masonry, but that is good to know.

BrotherBart said:
A insert with good strong blowers is gonna move a lot of heat out into the room. And if you put a stove back into a fireplace, which you are going to have trouble doing with that short of a opening, then the blowers are trapped behind the stove and you have to pull it out to clean or replace them.

A good insert is the best answer. You ain't gonna heat 4,000 feet with it, but you won't with a free standing stove either.
Click to expand...
So with either a stove or an insert, blowers are necessary? I was looking at the photo forum, and I didn't really see any stoves utilizing blowers..unless they're concealed.
If I do purchase an insert, do the blowers come with it or will I need to get "aftermarket" blowers? How often is blower maintenance really necessary? I figure it would be the same if I get an insert or a stove, correct?

Slow1 said:
Generally speaking it is easier to get the heat out of a free standing stove than an insert - if you consider the mechanics of this for a bit it makes sense to have more sides of the hot stove in the room instead of heating up the fireplace. Well designed inserts, however, with the aid of blowers can do an excellent job of heating up air from the back and sides of the stove and moving it out from the stove so as long as you have electrical power applied they can do quite a good job as well.

The rest of the question will be one of getting a large enough firebox to fit where you want it (either in the fireplace opening) or sitting in front of it to do what you want. Heating up that 600 sqft should be no problem, even having enough to push heat out of that room. Heating up all the 4000 sqft home, now that I am not sure many would try to do with a single space heater - a furnace is better suited for that (I know, you didn't say that was your objective, but just wanted to put that on the table).

Aesthetics are so much a matter of personal preference - I happen to like free standing stoves, you seem to like inserts so I'd suggest you see what the best one is that fits in that space and go from there. If you can't find one that will meet your needs then explore the free standing stove on the hearth idea. If you don't have a strong preference then take a look at the perfect picture forum for some ideas of what folks have done with stoves in front of fireplaces - some pretty amazing results there.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I checked out the perfect picture forum and got some pretty good ideas.
Now the room in question has a basement underneath, and it appears some of these stoves and hearths can get quite heavy. Is reengineering the structure a consideration when purchasing a large wood stove?
 
Hit us with a picture of that fireplace.
 
BrotherBart said:
Hit us with a picture of that fireplace.
Click to expand...


fplace.jpg


this was from before we purchased the house. The coal stove and masonry pad are gone, but the rest of the hearth remains.
 
darrylg said:
BrotherBart said:
Hit us with a picture of that fireplace.
Click to expand...

this was from before we purchased the house. The coal stove and masonry pad are gone, but the rest of the hearth remains.
Click to expand...

Nice fireplace. That looks like a wild solution to shoulder season burning.
 
I've never used an insert, but intuitively I would think a free standing stove would be much better in a room with a cathedral ceiling. With high ceiling heights I'd think you'd want as much as your heat output to be radiant, rather than convective in nature, otherwise you'll end up with a stratified room (much higher temps near the ceiling than the floor) and it would take a lot longer to get the lower part of the room up to the same temperature as a woodstove.

Like I said, I don't know for sure, but the design of an insert seems to lend itself to low ceilings better, or perhaps some design where natural convective currents can be used to an advantage. If the room is big, I think you'll have much more success with even heating by producing as much radiant heat as possible (i.e. stove).
 
BeGreen said:
darrylg said:
BrotherBart said:
Hit us with a picture of that fireplace.
Click to expand...

this was from before we purchased the house. The coal stove and masonry pad are gone, but the rest of the hearth remains.
Click to expand...

Nice fireplace. That looks like a wild solution to shoulder season burning.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they actually had 3 coal stoves sprinkled throughout the house. I had them removed when I redid the roof to minimize the number of penetrations. I did keep one in the kitchen so I can probably add another wood stove in there if it comes to it.
 
Our large Regency I3100 required an opening that was 25H X 28W X 17D, your opening could easily accomodate the Regency or prolly a number of other large inserts (I3100 = 3.1 cuft). It puts out a huge amount of heat even with the blower on the low setting. I toyed around with the idea of trying to get a small stove in there somehow, but in the end, decided the insert would just work better in our LR.
 

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