Econoburn Piping

Tough if not impossible to do regarding the lengths and dimensions. Every install is different. I would strongly advise that you spend time with the manual until you have a grasp of what needs to be done. It's your friend. Speaking frankly, if the info in the manual is not understandable then it's time to call in reinforcements. There is no sense in getting it wrong and then spending the money to hire someone to take it apart and do it over.

You basically have a supply and return from the boiler to the system. Sizing those for diameter depends on the gpm you need to move through them and that of course depends on the heating load. Without knowing that it's a shot in the dark but 1-1/2" would probably be safe.

What Heaterman said! Craigslist has some qualified plumbers that will work at reasonable rates, Randy

WoodChoppa said:

Thanks for the replies but not the answers I'm looking for. The Econoburn manual has exactly one diagram regarding the plumbing and the following text.

"In the freestanding, or stand-alone system, the ECONOBURN™ boiler is the sole source of central
heating. In this system connect the piping as you would for any conventional hydronic heating
system (using zone valves, circulator zoning, or single zone flow check system).."

Seriously my BBQ came with better instructions!

I'm not looking for advice on the entire piping setup just the near boiler piping with the safety return that I'm goint to do in black pipe which must be pretty typical for all Econoburn installs. I don't have the tools to cut and thread pipe so I just need a list of off the shelf pices to put this loop together so I don't have to drive to the store 6 times! If it matters I got the EBW-200 and the pex in my trench is 1-1/4".

It'd be much appreciated if someone who has already done this could chime in.

Thanks

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I think my suggestion would be to give the company a ring for some assistance regarding placement of components in the near boiler piping. All of my communication and interaction with Econoburn has been great and I think you will find them very helpful.

As far as store bought pipe lengths to connect the near boiler loop, you are probably out of luck. It would be nearly impossible for the factory to include such a thing as every installation is different. Once you find out from them where to put what, you could most likely assemble all but the final piece or two with store bought nipples and fittings. This would leave just a piece or two that had to be cut and threaded.

PS: I have done this 2 or 3.........hundred times.

Why not use copper rather than black? You can cut whatever length you want. Last time I checked prices were pretty close on the pipe, copper fittings maybe more, but these often are available on ebay at good prices.

For plumbing diagrams, go to the woodboilers.com website and you will find good diagrams for various situations. Take time to learn how to calculate pump head to make sure your piping and circulator can provide the heat you need. I learned that the hard way and have redone my system twice at considerable expense.

WoodChoppa said:

No offence Heaterman but not the answer I'm looking for. I'm not too big on can't. I bet if you've done this 2-3 hundred times you probably don't need to look at the manual and you can cut and thread pipe to any size and you might even have a truck full of stuff as well. Econoburn wrote the manual for guys like you, not guys like me. My nearest plumbing supply store is 80 miles one way but I'll be sure to check my local Craigslist for a plumber.
This is like a puzzle, if I start with the right pieces to begin with the solution will come to be a whole lot quicker and with less pain. If I can get to within a piece or 2 of cut and threaded pipe using off the shelf pipe I'll be happy.

One last plea, If anyone has a list of off the shelf black pipe pieces and fittings to make that safety loop and take the EBW-200 down to a single supply and return of 1-1/4" pex I'd be fair greatful. If you've got pics. I'll even buy you a beer! I won't even mind if Econoburn or Heaterman can provide me with the grocery list.

Thanks!

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I did my best to help & really wasn't expecting a smart ash reply sunshine. I guess you got it handled, so no need for a plumber, Randy

too bad you didn't buy your boiler from that woodboilers dot com company, I hear they have great drawings and detailed manuals. Sorry, couldn't resist

WoodChoppa, where is your dealer in all of this?

This forum is normally a great resource to get questions answered. I think you are meeting some resistance because it doesn't seem like you have made the smallest effort to get yourself informed before setting out on the project and coming here with a "just tell me how to do this" request.

I'm with Randy, strongly recommend you hire this one out to a local plumber if your dealer is not available to do the work.

I'm definately not a plumbing/heating expert.....I'm a rookie! However if you stop and take a good look at the piping diagram that econoburn gave you I think you can figure it out. Personally I will be installing a 2" black pipe T on the vertical supply out of the boiler. The top vertical of the T will have a 1" automag which will supply my power outage dump zone(32' of baseboard) mounted above my boiler. The horizintal of the T will also be 2" black pipe to another T. This second T will supply my re-circ loop for the boiler and the circ pump into my house. Econoburn sent you a re-circ pump and flanges so you know what size pipe to reduce down to. The diagram also shows you the check valve placement for the return side of the re-circ loop. After the check valve I will be going back to 2" black pipe to match the return for the boiler.
I hope this helps some. Now I mentioned I'm a rookie and I am. But the confidence I got from the above information was from reading the different posts on this site. Start with the sticky's. All the information is here you just need to read. I've found the experts on this site to be "MORE" than helpful,(Hell...one even sent me used re-circ pumps to get me up and running for this heating season), but a little appreciation and some help yourself type attitude goes a long way in here. Not trying to judge you, just a heads up!
Oh and by the way...Econoburn has a warranty disclaimer in the manual that the warranty is void unless installed by a qualified and licensed plumber. Also a yearly inspection by a qualified plumber. So be careful.

Maybe this will clarify things a bit for you.......
I seriously can't give you lengths of each piece of pipe or the exact fittings you need. Neither can the manufacturer. I can however, tell you there is no such thing as a one stop plumbing job. Plan on a few mistakes and Ooops along the way.
Never forget that you are dealing with what is technically called a "pressure vessel". Things can get very ugly, very quick if one of the safety's fail or it is not installed correctly.
Also keep in mind that this is not a one day project for a Do It Yourself type installation. It wouldn't be a one day project for me for that matter. Probably more like a week by the time you are done. Sounds like it should be simple at first glance.....customers say to me," How come it costs so much? It's just a bunch of pipe fittings and nipples........" Right. Remember that you are assembling a system and not just a bunch of pieces and parts. That my friend requires a lot of forethought and planning. That's why I get the big bucks ........Riiiiiight.......... Har HAr HAR

The diagram I have drawn for you here shows various components in "ladder" form. How exactly they have to be configured is going to be dictated by the circumstances of each job. That's always the way it is. I have never had an installation that was the same as something I had done before. Same components and boiler but never the same layout. That's what I mean when I say I can't give you a list of fittings and have it be correct for your particular job. Econoburn as well as every other manufacturer out there knows this too.

Make sure you install enough heating capacity in your dump zone to handle a worst case scenario. It absolutely must be able to gravity flow. In other words is has to be higher than the boiler. If there is one thing that has to be done without cutting a corner, it's that. A runaway fire in a wood boiler is something that a person will remember for a looong time.

heaterman said:

....Make sure you install enough heating capacity in your dump zone to handle a worst case scenario. It absolutely must be able to gravity flow. In other words is has to be higher than the boiler. If there is one thing that has to be done without cutting a corner, it's that. A runaway fire in a wood boiler is something that a person will remember for a looong time.

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First of all, Woodchoppa, I'm not trying to steal your thread, but I have a question for Heaterman.

I installed an Econoburn 150 last fall, but did not install a dump zone. I have a back up generator to handle a power outage.

That being said, I still plan on installing a dump/over temp zone. Here's my plan, let me know if you think it will work.

Install a hydronic heater in my attached garage and make it my dump zone. My garage is about 50 feet from the building that houses my boiler. The hydronic heater would be mounted from the ceiling of the garage which is above my boiler. I would connect to the hydronic heater by teeing off my main supply and return lines which are located in my basement. With this distance, do you think it will still gravity feed?

Second question. Is it possible to also put a thermostat in the garage that would also control the hydronic heater? So that the zone valve would be normally closed unless the garage thermostat called for heat or there was a power failure. I think installing a relay would accomplish this? I also thought of installing another pump so that it would kick on when the thermostat called for heat, but I'm not sure that would work with the dump zone?

I realize that this may be hard for you to answer because you don't know my exact set up, but any insight you could offer would be much appreciated. I can also provide more info to clarify.

gator21 said:

heaterman said:

....Make sure you install enough heating capacity in your dump zone to handle a worst case scenario. It absolutely must be able to gravity flow. In other words is has to be higher than the boiler. If there is one thing that has to be done without cutting a corner, it's that. A runaway fire in a wood boiler is something that a person will remember for a looong time.

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First of all, Woodchoppa, I'm not trying to steal your thread, but I have a question for Heaterman.

I installed an Econoburn 150 last fall, but did not install a dump zone. I have a back up generator to handle a power outage.

That being said, I still plan on installing a dump/over temp zone. Here's my plan, let me know if you think it will work.

Install a hydronic heater in my attached garage and make it my dump zone. My garage is about 50 feet from the building that houses my boiler. The hydronic heater would be mounted from the ceiling of the garage which is above my boiler. I would connect to the hydronic heater by teeing off my main supply and return lines which are located in my basement. With this distance, do you think it will still gravity feed?

Second question. Is it possible to also put a thermostat in the garage that would also control the hydronic heater? So that the zone valve would be normally closed unless the garage thermostat called for heat or there was a power failure. I think installing a relay would accomplish this? I also thought of installing another pump so that it would kick on when the thermostat called for heat, but I'm not sure that would work with the dump zone?

I realize that this may be hard for you to answer because you don't know my exact set up, but any insight you could offer would be much appreciated. I can also provide more info to clarify.

Click to expand...

Just a few thoughts,

Is your garage going to be heated all the time? If not, what will you do for freeze protection of the unit?

Any low points in the system between garage and boiler? Thermo siphon might be difficult to accomplish unless the return is the only low point. A heat trap could be created.

gg

Just a few thoughts,

Is your garage going to be heated all the time? If not, what will you do for freeze protection of the unit?

Any low points in the system between garage and boiler? Thermo siphon might be difficult to accomplish unless the return is the only low point. A heat trap could be created.

gg[/quote]

Good thoughts. My garage would be heated all the time, maybe only to 55-60 degrees or so but still heated.

Yes there are low points. My lines (both supply and return) run underground from my boiler building into my basement where it connects to my heat coil and DHW. I would want to tee off the lines in the basement to get into the garage. Access to the garage is easily accessible through my box joist.

I was thinking more about this last night. I think the best thing to do might be to put the dump zone in my building like Heaterman suggests and then just treat my garage as a separate heating zone instead of trying to combine the two.

It would be nice to have the dump zone in the garage because the circuit that would operate the dump zone would also trip the zone valve when there's an overtemp situation. I have my boiler set a 180 degrees so anytime the boiler goes over that temp the overtemp circuit would kick in and dump that extra heat into my garage instead of my little boiler building where it would be wasted. That's if I understand the operation of the over temp circuit on the Econoburn correctly. I may be totally wrong about how I'm thinking about this.

Uh Oh...I forgot the Dump Zone! So my question is would a UPS (Battery Backup) be sufficient to cover a power outage and negate the need for a dump zone?

Only problem with counting on a UPS is if it failed there would be no way to dump the heat out of your boiler. The dump zone, when set up with an auto mag, uses natural occuring processes to remove heat from boiler. There's nothing to break. Well I suppose the automag could jam closed??? But they are engineered to fail open. Does a UPS fail on? That's the difference.