n/t

Kathleen my neighbor has a fisher and likes his wood seasoned 6-8 months, been burning like that a good 50 years and never had problem. His thinking is it will burn longer and is not concerned about moisture content.


zap

Some folks never learn....

Yeah.....sometimes you really CAN'T teach an old dog new tricks. Well, not really new, but....well...you get the point. If ignorance is bliss, I know ALOT of REALLY happy people!

~*~Kathleen~*~ said:

"otherwise your wood burns up too quickly." Words of wisdom from the guy who brought me a load of lovely red oak today. He was truly trying to be helpful to me. He's been cutting and burning wood in a big old fisher stove his entire life, and that's the conventional wisdom.

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May have pertained with his old Franklin. Not with my "EPA" Morso- it can act like asbestos.
IME wood can't be too dry- I even give it a week+ in the vicinity of the stove to finish it off.
Red oak, freshly cut, has almost as much weight in water as in fiber, so long seasoning is especially beneficial.
Boiling water out of wood in the fire absorbs lots of energy and can quench part of fire- "creosote" not good either.

It is not a bad idea to have a few sticks of "less than fully seasoned" wood to mix in on those cold and windy nights when the draft is ferious. You might sleep better.

I'd keep it all seasoned. Think that's about the safest.

Awww geez . . . I've been doing it all wrong . . . here I am putting in well seasoned wood around 9:30 a.m. and then getting up 7-8 hours later and only finding coals to get the fire up and running . . . if only I had put an unseasoned split in the firebox to extend that burning time.

Conventional wisdom, isn't always.
Kathleen, are you just trying to get us all riled up, or what?
It's working. ;-)
By the by, how's your new 13 running?

Before I found this forum I used to throw a big ole stump into the fireplace because it'd give me a fire all night long. Thought I was pretty danged clever, too.

you can bring the business end of the garden hose in and pour water on the fire, too to make your wood last longer.

I rather like the heat in the room and clear exhaust out the chimney.

I'll throw one less log on the fire to make the wood last longer.


Course, there's all that beer that gets consumed and needs to be disposed of after consumption .......

You can also burn icicles to make the wood burn more slowly. Icicles usually appear right about the same time you need long overnight burns. Coincidence? i doubt it.

Since we have such experts here, maybe we can explain some things for people like me who are easily confused.

I understand dry wood will burn better than wet wood. But, is there a substantial difference in heat output say in oak that has been split 9 months vs same oak allowed an additional year and burned at 21 months? How much faster does dry oak burn vs wetter oak (not green)

One issue wood burners face is the stove having enough coals in the morning to light off new added wood. Will wet wood burn slower making it better? Or is there some trick (whole log/unsplit) or other ways to have good bed of coals 8 or 9 hours after adding wood? I assume in the question the stove is big enough to carry fire overnight and the damper is closed upon going to bed.

Wooddust said:

One issue wood burners face is the stove having enough coals in the morning to light off new added wood.

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What size stove do you have? I have a stove that is on the medium side(2.2 cu ft) so not large by any stretch and I always have plenty of coals to start a fire with full size splits in the am. I usually load up at 10 pm for the night and then my wife loads around 6 am.

The biggest benefit I've noticed with more seasoned wood is the ability to turn the stove down faster without smothering the fire and quicker/cleaner start ups.

Mines pretty big..Hampton 300
Maximum BTU 45,500
Log Size 18"
Burn Time up to 8 hrs.
Optimum Efficiency 83.60%
Firebox Capacity 1.71 cu. ft

http://www.regency-fire.com/Product...t-Iron-Stoves,-Fireplaces---Inserts/H300.aspx

Green wood actually does burn longer, I think. When you load a hot stove with green wood, there is a period of time when the heat from the old coals is cooking water out of the green wood. during this time, the green wood isn't really burning a lot, so in a sense you are extending the burn time. Eventually the water gets cooked off and the wood begins to burn. Big pieces take longer to burn, so big, green pieces of wood can make a fire last longest, yielding coals in the morning if you have large enough pieces and can cut the air down enough. This is the old-fashioned way to do things, loading up the stove with big, green pieces of wood and cutting back the air when you go to bed. You're going to bed, so a little less heat in the house doesn't bother you, and the long, slow burn keeps the house warm late at night.

The problem with burning green wood is twofold (at least, maybe more). First, while the water is cooking out of the wood you are losing a lot of heat to evaporation in the stove instead of heating the house. Second, while this is happening cool smoke is going up the chimney, leading to creosote accumulation, not to mention air pollution. Overall you use more wood for the same heat in the house, plus your chimney gets clogged and the air is smoky outside. It would be better to have dry wood and burn it efficiently, in my opinion.

[quote author="Wooddust" date="1286415704"]Since we have such experts here, maybe we can explain some things for people like me who are easily confused.

I understand dry wood will burn better than wet wood. But, is there a substantial difference in heat output say in oak that has been split 9 months vs same oak allowed an additional year and burned at 21 months? How much faster does dry oak burn vs wetter oak (not green)

Wood-combustion basics
Combustion of wood has three requirements: fuel,
air and heat. If any one of these is removed, burning
ceases. When all three are available in the correct
proportion, combustion is self-sustaining because
the wood releases more than enough heat to initiate
further burning.
The rate at which wood burns is controlled by the
amount of air. A lack of air causes wood to smolder
and produce pollutants. Too much air will cool the fire
and waste heat.
Another important aspect of combustion is the
energy content of the fuel. This is normally expressed
in British thermal units (Btu). Energy content is greatly
affected by the moisture content and weight of the
wood. For example, hardwood and softwood at 50 percent
moisture will contain about 4,700 Btu per pound.
The same wood at 20 percent moisture will contain
about 6,200 Btu per pound.
Hardwood has about twice the weight as softwood
and twice the heat content. The same is true with
wood chips — 4,000 Btu per pound green (50 percent
moisture content) and 7,400 Btu per pound dry
(10 percent moisture content).
From a search, Zap
http://www.hrt.msu.edu/energy/Notebook/Burning_wood_may_offer_heat_savings_by_Bartok.pdf

~*~Kathleen~*~ said:

PapaDave said:

By the by, how's your new 13 running?

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So far so good! It was ~37 degrees F last night and the furnace is still gathering dust. The cowdog already found her winter spot at the hearth. Thanks for asking.

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Gotta love them cow dogs

Wood Duck said:

Green wood actually does burn longer, I think. When you load a hot stove with green wood, there is a period of time when the heat from the old coals is cooking water out of the green wood. during this time, the green wood isn't really burning a lot, so in a sense you are extending the burn time. Eventually the water gets cooked off and the wood begins to burn. Big pieces take longer to burn, so big, green pieces of wood can make a fire last longest, yielding coals in the morning if you have large enough pieces and can cut the air down enough. This is the old-fashioned way to do things, loading up the stove with big, green pieces of wood and cutting back the air when you go to bed. You're going to bed, so a little less heat in the house doesn't bother you, and the long, slow burn keeps the house warm late at night.

The problem with burning green wood is twofold (at least, maybe more). First, while the water is cooking out of the wood you are losing a lot of heat to evaporation in the stove instead of heating the house. Second, while this is happening cool smoke is going up the chimney, leading to creosote accumulation, not to mention air pollution. Overall you use more wood for the same heat in the house, plus your chimney gets clogged and the air is smoky outside. It would be better to have dry wood and burn it efficiently, in my opinion.

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Well now, there is a big difference between burning a full load of green wood and adding some "wetter" wood. I don't know how that particular wood seller defines wetter, but it will definitely regulate the burn better if you add less dry wood to extremely dry wood (<15% MC). You add a few pieces to the dry load, and you use your experience and intelligence to tell you how much and when. Learning how to do this is part of the ongoing process of becoming a burn artist. I'm may be an old-timer, but I'm not old school. I'm not the brightest guy out there, but I have read up on and do understand the basic science behind wood burning. It's kind of a hobby, but with tangible benefits. The more you learn, the better you burn IMHO. Don't just blindly accept the prevailing wisdom, experiment with everything and draw your own conclusions. Then use what works best for you in your stove-flue-wood-home-climate-lifestyle combination.

For example, I just ordered 4 cord of white ash from my regular seller. It hasn't been split yet, he'll split it right before he loads it. I know from past experience that it will burn OK in my stove right away, but instead, I will mix it in with the bone-dry cherry and hickory from last year. This is a far cry from filling the stove with green wood and choking it way down to make it last all night. As the season progresses, the ash will get drier and I will mix in some of this year's hickory and cherry to help it burn more controlled. That's the plan, anyhow, but the reality will unfold every day, as I am constantly re-assessing the situation as the season progresses. Few brain cells get burned in the process, it's all pretty much intuitive at this point. Every burn is different, so you have to make some adjustments. Flue temps, the absence or presence of smoke from your stack, and the amount of heat in your home are what you need to go by. If some folks really think the drier the better, or that all you have to do is get your wood as dry as is humanly possible and you will automatically get a clean and efficient burn, enjoy the Kool-Aid. I ain't drinking it. Around 20-25% is what I read is ideal, so that is my goal when I burn. The farther you drift away from the ideal in anything, the less... ideal it is. It your wood is drier than ideal, adjust the load so it is.

BTW, when I went to the Woodstock plant last month, I asked one of the workers what kind of wood they were burning in the Fireview they had on display. He pointed to a bag and said, "We buy processed wood and test it to make sure it's at 25% moisture content for our stoves." If 25% MC is good enough for Woodstock, it's good enough for me.

With your NC13, I would nod and smile and ignore his advice. This guy sounds like many of the "old-timer" woodcutters around here who refuse to adapt to the newer stoves. They're still cutting to 24" lengths, burning old smokedragons in rural areas which have no regulations, and don't want to hear anything that might change the way they do things. When I told one guy last year that if he started offering 14" and 18" lengths he'd get ALOT more business, he cussed and walked away.

Good discussion and helpful. After just two seasons with my stove, for me at least, the issues of stove operation seem to come down to "feel". As a newbie compared to many of you, Im still developing an understanding of the impact of the selected wood, the size I split my wood into, the species (I am blessed with abundance of hardwood oaks, osage orange, black locust, honey locust), and the dryness or lack thereof of the wood I am burning. I'd also speculate every stove has a personality of its own that comes from not only its design but also its installation and location that makes it even more critical to develop that feel.

I learn a lot here. Y'all are ok in my book.

Wooddust said:

Good discussion and helpful. After just two seasons with my stove, for me at least, the issues of stove operation seem to come down to "feel". As a newbie compared to many of you, Im still developing an understanding of the impact of the selected wood, the size I split my wood into, the species (I am blessed with abundance of hardwood oaks, osage orange, black locust, honey locust), and the dryness or lack thereof of the wood I am burning. I'd also speculate every stove has a personality of its own that comes from not only its design but also its installation and location that makes it even more critical to develop that feel.

I learn a lot here. Y'all are ok in my book.

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Hehheh . . . apparently you haven't met all of our members yet . . . some are most definitely not OK. . . . especially the ones who insist on splitting vertically . . . and the ones who live in Maine.

firefighterjake said:

Wooddust said:

Good discussion and helpful. After just two seasons with my stove, for me at least, the issues of stove operation seem to come down to "feel". As a newbie compared to many of you, Im still developing an understanding of the impact of the selected wood, the size I split my wood into, the species (I am blessed with abundance of hardwood oaks, osage orange, black locust, honey locust), and the dryness or lack thereof of the wood I am burning. I'd also speculate every stove has a personality of its own that comes from not only its design but also its installation and location that makes it even more critical to develop that feel.

I learn a lot here. Y'all are ok in my book.

Click to expand...

Hehheh . . . apparently you haven't met all of our members yet . . . some are most definitely not OK. . . . especially the ones who insist on splitting vertically.

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You should read the safety label on the MTD which states that horizontal is for TOWING only. :vampire:


zap

firefighterjake said:

Wooddust said:

Good discussion and helpful. After just two seasons with my stove, for me at least, the issues of stove operation seem to come down to "feel". As a newbie compared to many of you, Im still developing an understanding of the impact of the selected wood, the size I split my wood into, the species (I am blessed with abundance of hardwood oaks, osage orange, black locust, honey locust), and the dryness or lack thereof of the wood I am burning. I'd also speculate every stove has a personality of its own that comes from not only its design but also its installation and location that makes it even more critical to develop that feel.

I learn a lot here. Y'all are ok in my book.

Click to expand...

Hehheh . . . apparently you haven't met all of our members yet . . . some are most definitely not OK. . . . especially the ones who insist on splitting vertically . . . and the ones who live in Maine.

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Well I have been to Maine. But being rather new here I didn't want to say anything about them. Or people from Wisconsin either. Best to try to fit in if you can and not stir people up. Ipwa people are nuts but that goes without saying so I wont say it.