Pellet Stove Decision and Pellet Questions for a Newbie

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Hitch

Member
Mar 6, 2010
103
S.E. Pennsylvania
My wife and I are going to put an addition on the house. It will be approximately 16 by 27, single story, but with a fairly high ceiling. Lots of windows/glass. We don't have a fireplace anywhere in the house and both my wife and I have wanted one for years. We have decided to buy a pellet stove for the addition. I have been reading this website for many months and thank you all for the information (and laughs along the way).

We have narrowed the options down to the Harman XXV or the new Enviro M55. I think we are leading towards the M55. Since this is going to be installed in this addition on the main floor, we want it to look nice and be fairly quiet.....OK, I'll admit it....my wife will have total control over this addition. She wants it to be warm and toasty in there.

Both units are available at local stores that will service them. I am leaning toward the Harman for a couple reasons - the store that sells Harmans is a home and hearth type place who seems to have much more experience installing and servicing stoves. In addition, I tend to think I am better off with the lower BTU's of the Harman, in light of the size of the addition. The seller of the Harman told me that Harman suggests that the stoves run better when they are run harder. He said they don't tend to like cycling as much. If that is the case for stoves in general, I am better off with the lower BTU Harman. Also, my wife likes the look of the Harman better and it is supposed to be pretty quiet. I understand that the Enviro, on the other hand, is probably a quieter stove. The seller of the Enviro seems to be newer to pellet stoves - I know the Enviro's are new to them. They are certainly both good people, but the Harman place is certainly more specialized to pellet stoves. The one concern I have with the Harman dealer is that they are suggesting that I don't need an outside air kit. I have reviewed the Harman manual and see that Harman strongly recommends them.

I am not looking for a pellet stove that will provide heat for the majority of my house. Indeed, we are switching to a geothermal HVAC system. The goal of having the pellet stove is to heat up the addition (makes wife happy) and to help out the geo during the really cold snaps where the geo might lose efficiency.

Any thoughts or comments on our probable stove selection? Are we making any mistakes?

My second question relates to pellets. I am not really thrilled with the quality in this area (a bit outside of Philly, PA). Our local Lowes has Greene Teams. The two pellet stoves places carry Lignetics, Appling County, and ClearChoice - all for $299/ton. The other option is the Tree Cycle brand for $249. I can also get Andes, Cleanfire, and Amercan Wood via the internet. As you can see, not the highest quality of pellets. Then again, the stove is not intended to heat the house and we don't see the same temperatures that a lot of you do.

Again, thanks for all the help and I'll be sure to post a pic.
 
I think your Harman dealer is correct when he sez stoves (in general) perform better at a higher setting than idling along on setting #1 or 2.

Buy from the dealer with whom you are most comfortable... you may have seen my posts about service after the sale... it is THE most important thing IMHO. Buying a pellet stove is like buying a Model T Ford... you just know you will have to fiddle with it sooner or later.

The pellet experts here are imacman and jtakeman... and a few others. I'm sure they will chime in with suggestions.

Either stove will do a good job I'm sure. I haven't drunk the Harman Kool-Aid yet and i don't own an Enviro so I don't have any suggestions between the two stoves.

Good luck and welcome aboard...
 
I like what krooser said about the dealer. The dealer would be the 1st line of defence if there should be an issue with the new stove.

Both stove will do a bang up job for you, But the Enviro newer technology gives it a slight edge. Mostly because it will burn any pellet with ease. The Harman will do a good job but may struggle with some of the higher ashed brands.

The only pellet I would say stay away from would be the ACP's. They are the worst in your list. Tree Cycle, Amercan Wood Fiber, Greene Teams, Andes, Cleanfire and Lignetics should do well in either stove you choose. I can't comment on ClearChoice, I haven't seen them near me. Amercan Wood Fiber, Greene Teams and Lignetics are standouts of the list and the Tree Cycle latest product is supposed to be a good one too! But I personally haven't burned the latest batch.
 
Welcome to the forum....lots of friendly and helpful people here.

I tend to agree with the selection of the Harman. Quality stove, although overpriced IMO.

The only thing I will take issue with the dealer about is his statement that they should be run "harder". Ideally, a pellet stove should be sized to run on a medium setting during the normal winter temps. Most pellet stoves do not do well on lower settings, and are not recommended to be run on high for more than about an hour.

As for the outside air kit (OAK), do what Harman says, not the dealer. An OAK can only help the operation of the stove, and not hurt it.

In regards to the pellets, I would have no issues with the Greene teams...they are a good middle of the road pellet. As for the others, forget the Appling County (junk), Lignetics had so-so reviews last winter. TreeCycle also had "issues" last winter, and i know nothing about ClearChoice or Andes (made in S. America?). The American Wood Fiber (AWF), on the other hand, are pretty good pellets too....I would not hesitate to burn them in your stove.

Good luck, and don't forget the pics....as we say on the forum, "no pics = it really didn't happen" :lol:
 
I agree with the others that dealer service is most important if/when needed while
the stove is under warranty.

As j-takeman mentioned, some stoves are picky with pellets, but in my experience
the Harman brand is not one of them. They can burn any grade of pellets and
even a 50/50 corn pellet mix.

I am going into winter #5 with my XXV and have no complaints.

As for the OAK, this is a hot subject that comes up here now and then. Many are dead set for them, others are
dead set against them. I have 2 stoves and neither use an OAK.

I do not have any experience with the M55 but either stove should easily heat the space you want and
maybe even a bit more.

Keep us posted on your decision and yes, we need pics or it never happened. :lol:
 
when you really factor it out, both of those machine basically have the same max output ability, though the XXV can sustain itself at a lower setting (roughly 3/4 lb per hour vs the ~1.5 lb per hour on the M55). Neither of those stoves is going to care much if you run it on low,med, or high so long as you pay attention to the burnpot and the "clinkers". I, personally, think the XXV is a hair quieter. Both have about the same number of things to clean, though in different configurations. Neither is a bad choice. I think the steel bodied Enviros have a better "fit and finish" than the cast ones. The XXV, in my experience, is very well constructed, maybe too well, so theres not a lot of vibration noise or anything. Maybe flip a coin, or throw a dart?
 
Thanks all for the responses and thoughts. I truly appreciate the posts.

With this help, I think I am leaning more towards the Harman - largely because I think I will receive better support from that dealer. The only thing that makes me concerned about them is that they suggested no OAK. However, that sounds like something that is debated. I think I will just tell them to put one in, following the sound advice to listen to the manufacturer.

I am still hunting for some better options on pellets. I found some additional sellers/vendors, but no new brands. I found one guy who said he could order Hamer's, which got my hopes up. However, he then said that they are too expensive and that he won't be able to sell a full truckload so no luck there. I sent a request on Hamer's website to find the closest dealer, but haven't received a response. Maybe the milder winters around here don't bring in the better pellets.

I think I would have to travel through two states to find Okies. :)
 
Hitch said:
My wife and I are going to put an addition on the house. It will be approximately 16 by 27, single story, but with a fairly high ceiling. Lots of windows/glass. We don't have a fireplace anywhere in the house and both my wife and I have wanted one for years. We have decided to buy a pellet stove for the addition. I have been reading this website for many months and thank you all for the information (and laughs along the way).

We have narrowed the options down to the Harman XXV or the new Enviro M55. I think we are leading towards the M55. Since this is going to be installed in this addition on the main floor, we want it to look nice and be fairly quiet.....OK, I'll admit it....my wife will have total control over this addition. She wants it to be warm and toasty in there.

Both units are available at local stores that will service them. I am leaning toward the Harman for a couple reasons - the store that sells Harmans is a home and hearth type place who seems to have much more experience installing and servicing stoves. In addition, I tend to think I am better off with the lower BTU's of the Harman, in light of the size of the addition. The seller of the Harman told me that Harman suggests that the stoves run better when they are run harder. He said they don't tend to like cycling as much. If that is the case for stoves in general, I am better off with the lower BTU Harman. Also, my wife likes the look of the Harman better and it is supposed to be pretty quiet. I understand that the Enviro, on the other hand, is probably a quieter stove. The seller of the Enviro seems to be newer to pellet stoves - I know the Enviro's are new to them. They are certainly both good people, but the Harman place is certainly more specialized to pellet stoves. The one concern I have with the Harman dealer is that they are suggesting that I don't need an outside air kit. I have reviewed the Harman manual and see that Harman strongly recommends them.

I am not looking for a pellet stove that will provide heat for the majority of my house. Indeed, we are switching to a geothermal HVAC system. The goal of having the pellet stove is to heat up the addition (makes wife happy) and to help out the geo during the really cold snaps where the geo might lose efficiency.

Any thoughts or comments on our probable stove selection? Are we making any mistakes?

My second question relates to pellets. I am not really thrilled with the quality in this area (a bit outside of Philly, PA). Our local Lowes has Greene Teams. The two pellet stoves places carry Lignetics, Appling County, and ClearChoice - all for $299/ton. The other option is the Tree Cycle brand for $249. I can also get Andes, Cleanfire, and Amercan Wood via the internet. As you can see, not the highest quality of pellets. Then again, the stove is not intended to heat the house and we don't see the same temperatures that a lot of you do.

Again, thanks for all the help and I'll be sure to post a pic.

Not sure about those stoves but as far as the pellets go, stay away from the Appling. I have a Quadrafire and the softwood blend clogs my firepot and the ash doesn't fall through. Lignetics are good. I just hooked up with a deal on treecycle for $200 a ton. Gonna try them see how do since the price was right.
 
Not sure where exactly you are but I bought Barefoots for $255 a ton from Ray's Greenhouse in Telford. Really nice guy, I picked mine up but they do deliver.

Rays Greenhouse- 458 Morwood Rd Telford, PA 18969-2346 - (215) 723-1476
 
I would not be too concerned about the OAK non-recommendation. I think i would be more concerned if they were trying to pressure you into buying it. I have thr XXV and this is my 4th season with it. I heat a 2 story colonial with it in Vermont....2500sqft and 85% of the time it is the only heat in my house... if my daughters come home and the outside temps are down in the teens i will admit the XXV won't keep the house at 75 for my princesses, so i allow them to bump the oil on from time to time.

I do not use an OAK and don't really think i need one...i have considered it, and it is an easy add-on if you decide you want to put it in later...or just order it and install it, it won't hurt....it just may not be needed.

As for it being quiet....in that small addition, you should be able to bump the fan switch to low and still get toasty warm in that room. Have the dealer flip the fan switch for you so you can hear the difference..its a black rocker switch mounted on the side of the stove and is accessible when you open the control panel door.

Overall its not a whisper quiet stove.....but its not real loud either. If this addition is going to be a TV viewing room, i would want the stove on the opposite end from the listening position.

good luck!!
 
sounds like great replies! The dealer can make or break the deal. I had so so experience with my dealer, but a closer dealer was found the next year that is more then happy to help if necessary. I went with the 1st dealer because a few years ago, if you didn't know the dealer, you got no stove. People were lining up and placing orders for a stove 6 months out. I got my stove within a couple of weeks. I have had stoves for almost 20 years and feel pretty confident in most issues.....as far as pellets, the newest Tree Cycle are fine, the hardwood lignetics are also great. I have also looked for places that keep the pellets inside out of the moist air. Happy burning and pics! Oh, I am on my 3rd season with the XXV and no outside air kit.....i can say that if the fan is moving a lot of air and heat you might feel the cold moving towards the stove. Not sure if the outside air kit solves that, I just turn down the speed some to slow down the movement and helps even out the heat.......good luck.
 
bookpile said:
Not sure where exactly you are but I bought Barefoots for $255 a ton from Ray's Greenhouse in Telford. Really nice guy, I picked mine up but they do deliver.

Rays Greenhouse- 458 Morwood Rd Telford, PA 18969-2346 - (215) 723-1476

Thanks BP! I'm down closer to DE and I95, but that's not a long trip. I would tend to think that he wouldn't deliver this far, but I could make the trip. The other option for high quality pellets would be for me to head South to Maryland for the Okies. I would have to check the price for those. I don't think that we will be burning a lot of pellets as the geothermal will be providing the majority of our heat (certainly won't be burning 3 plus tons a winter like a lot of guys on here do). The goal of the stove is to heat up the addition and to help out the geo for the really cold snaps (I would like to avoid running the geo on third stage/resistance).

Re the efficiency comment, I paid to have the house analyzed and to make sure that we end up with the right sized geo, vertical loop, etc. I have also thoroughly discussed the addition with geo installer - whose knowledge goes way beyond basic HVAC principals. We will be using high quality windows and the combination of a large stand of trees and the direction the house faces are also favorable. It's essentially a sun room, so cutting back on windows will defeat the purpose. It also won't be cooled during the summer. In sum, that issue has been addressed.

I really appreciate the thoughts on the OAK. Still not sure which direction I am headed on that issue.
 
tundraSQ said:
I would not be too concerned about the OAK non-recommendation. I think i would be more concerned if they were trying to pressure you into buying it........

Pressuring him???? This comes directly from the Harman XXV owners/installation manual, P. 8:

"Outside Air:
Harman Home Heating and Hearth & Home Technologies
strongly recommend attaching outside air
in all installations, especially lower level and main
floor locations.
"
 
Hello Firestarter, You have asked questions regarding Harmen and Enviro Pellet stoves .I will touch on the Enviro M55, this particular unit will burn anything such as corn, wheat, rye, barley, regular pellet fuel and premium pellet fuel, this unit does not care what you are burning because of their agitator burn pot system, so if you find that the pellet fuel (down the road becomes prohibitive) then you have the option of changing the setting and going to any alternative fuel. You also mentioned fresh air, if this is a new addition to your home I am going to assume that it will be airtight and you already have geothermo technology and an air to air heat exchanger that would supply enough fresh air to run the unit, that being said the Enviro does have a direct 3"fresh air connection to the firebox also you had mentioned that this is supplementary heat for the addition and you wanted to run the unit at lower temps so the Enviro circuit board can accommodate that by use of a thermostat wich can be attaced to the unit and run in either the on/off mode or hi/lo mode or strictly manual mode, also if you go to enviro.com they also have a tech support e-mail at [email protected] (and this guy knows his stuff) also on your M55 it will give you a 1-888 # to tech support, so Enviro back their units 100% and if you have a problem you actually get a live person that will help resolve any issues you may have. Hope this helps and let me know if I can help any more.
 
pellettech said:
Hello Firestarter, You have asked questions regarding Harmen and Enviro Pellet stoves .............. and let me know if I can help any more.

pellettech, the original poster's forum name is "hitch" (see the light blue bar above and to the left of his first post). Also, are you associated with Enviro?
 
Pellet - thanks for the additional information and personal experience. We are leaning towards the Harman, in part because the sellers of the Harmans are more specialized and I believe we will have a better service and installation experience.

Doing some more digging, I found out that I probably have to install the OAK in order to be in compliance with Harman's requirements for venting. In particular, the manaul states that the "clearance to a window or door that may be opened must be a minimum of 48" to the side, 48" below the window/door, and 12" above the window/door. (with outside air installed, 18" to side or below window/door)."

One question....how does the venting go 48" below the window/door AND 12" above it? I am missing something or should they have said 48" below the window/door OR 12" above the window/door?

In any event, if I add the OAK, those two clearances are reduced to 18" and I don't think I have the full 48". I spoke with a second Harman shop and he immediately recommended the OAK, he price is about the same but he'll throw in a ton of pellets. I'll be adding the OAK, my local inspector is a type "A" personality (which is a good thing).

Another question, is Dura-Vent a good product?
 
In the case of the clearances (and -or) is subjective it would always be 12" regardless and there would be no reduction in that scenario even if fresh air was supplied, the only reduction in termination clearance would apply to the below and to the side. and yes Dura-Vent is a good venting system as I have used it for years and they are always improving their vent systems. Hope you have good luck with your Harman, I just hope that you have not over sized the unit for the area you wish to heat which I think was 27' X16' which equals to 432 square ft and you said the ceiling was fairly high but I do not have that info, in my estimation you would only require approximately 30,000 BTU and as indicated you had mentioned the Harman does not run well at low settings and that it was not advisable to run on high for more than an hour, if the dealer that you are going with did a heat loss calculation on the area that you wish to heat then they would come up with the right BTU requirement for that area. Hope this helps.
 
PastTense said:
"Lots of windows/glass."

I think you should focus more on the energy efficiency of this addition.

so have no windows and live in the dark? How about he just doesn't build an addition.. think of the money he'll save.
 
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