Can I make this stove fit in my fireplace?

n2x4 · Oct 27, 2010

I recently purchased my first home and as you could expect, spent most of my free time at the hardware store. Every time I passed in and out of Home Depot, I saw a Englander 13-NC sitting in the clearance section. After a few visits to the store I couldn't pass up $450 on a decent stove. My house has an existing fireplace I wanted to use this stove with, so I took some measurements and in my haste everything seemed fine.

After buying a few buddies dinner, we had the stove unloaded into my basement next to my fireplace. Initial impression: It looks a little bigger than I measured. After researching a bit more on what it would take to get this puppy installed, I'm questioning whether I made the right move.

My fireplace:

The stove:

The measurements I took are as follows:

Fireplace opening - W 35" H 26.5"

Stove - W 25.3" H 27" or 28.3" counting the height of the rear heat shield/plate piece.

I think I'm safe as far as width is concerned. The back of the fireplace doesn't taper down to 24" wide for a good 18" of depth.

As far as height is concerned, my measurements are taken with the metal base. The stove is about an inch shorter if I use the legs instead. I've also considered cutting the legs another inch shorter to gain more clearance.

Another more destructive idea was to "lower" the hearth. I could remove some brick and the stone base and gain about 2".

I'm also not sure how much room I'll need to install and attach my chimney liner. I know that once you get past the chimney opening, there's a lot of room up to the damper (which I'm also wondering about removing for the install. Angle grinder?)

Any suggestions or ideas are appreciated. I'm going to start with switching the legs any playing around to get an idea how much room I'll need. I'm starting to think I should have gone with an insert, but I like the stove and know I would have a hard time finding something close to the quality for the price I paid. Please, help me make this fit!

BrotherBart · Oct 27, 2010

Measure one of the legs. I don't know if the 13-NC ships with the six or the nine inch legs these days. If they are the nine inch then ESW sells 6" leg sets for the stove. That is what I used to put my 30-NC into the fireplace.

Edit: I just looked at the pics again. That leg looks you already have the six inch.

n2x4 · Oct 27, 2010

You're correct. They're the 6" legs. Do you see any problems with shortening the legs a bit? My guess was that' I'd be ok as long as they were longer than the ashbox that's attached to the bottom of the stove.

BrotherBart · Oct 27, 2010

The manager of customer service for England's Stove Works has said don't do it no way, no how. On the other hand another member did it with his 13-NC and is happy.

mtcates · Oct 27, 2010

I put the Englander 30 inside my fireplace recently. I removed 12 inches of brick, the entire hearth and floor of the firebox down to floor level and put in a new layer of firebrick and a hearth stone. A lot of work but it was worth it. Check out my recent link to the post.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/60870/

n2x4 · Oct 27, 2010

BrotherBart said:
The manager of customer service for England's Stove Works has said don't do it no way, no how. On the other hand another member did it with his 13-NC and is happy.

Hmm. That's intriguing. What was his reasoning that it wasn't something that should be done?

mtcates said:
I put the Englander 30 inside my fireplace recently. I removed 12 inches of brick, the entire hearth and floor of the firebox down to floor level and put in a new layer of firebrick and a hearth stone. A lot of work but it was worth it. Check out my recent link to the post.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/60870/

I actually was reading your thread after I posted mine. I think in a worst case scenario, that's what I'll do. No taking this baby back to Home Depot.

A buddy came over and helped me test fit the stove. We took the base off and the legs and just let it rest on the fresh air intake.

I'm really tempted right now to cut those legs just enough to get the stove off the brick. Any other thoughts? I really appreciate the input so far !!!

begreen · Oct 27, 2010

This stove has some stiff hearth insulation requirements, even with the legs. It gets hot underneath. So the closer to the hearth the hotter it will be under there. But if the stove is totally over the fireplace bed and raised up a bit so that there is some air space, it should work, safely, though totally voiding any warranty of course. My main thought is - got blower?

n2x4 · Oct 27, 2010

BeGreen said:
This stove has some stiff hearth insulation requirements, even with the legs. It gets hot underneath. So the closer to the hearth the hotter it will be under there. But if the stove is totally over the fireplace bed and raised up a bit so that there is some air space, it should work, safely, though totally voiding any warranty of course. My main thought is - got blower?

Yeah, in my test fitting it sits just right inside the fireplace. I did start looking at what would be involved to lower it down to the actual concrete floor, and it's definitely doable, I guess I could go either way.

I do not yet have a blower for the stove. I was holding off on buying one until I knew if this guy would fit. I am a little concerned with how far out the back of the stove the blower will stick. I guess I order it and find out. Anyone know the best place to buy? So far Englander's website had the best price.

ilateapex · Oct 27, 2010

Now that the stove is in the fireplace could you hook up the liner and then jack up the stove and reinstall the legs?

Michael

KB007 · Oct 27, 2010

What's behind the bottom row of bricks? Any chance you could take out the bottom row and re-install the lintel up a row? You might want to think about pulling the stove out a bit to get some better heat distribution, airflow around the stove.

If not, I'd be very cautious with cutting the legs due to bottom heat radiation. Remeber, your Ins. Co. would prolly drop you like a rock if they found out that you had midified the appliance - since I believe, any changes void all the UL certifications etc.... I had a bunch of similar question as I was thinking of installing a stove that way and was told in no way should I modify the unit, legs or any part of it for safety / insurance reasons.

If you can pull out some layers at the bottom and are still sitting in masonry / concrete within safe parameters, I'd go that route if changing the lintel was not an option.

n2x4 · Oct 27, 2010

ilateapex said:
Now that the stove is in the fireplace could you hook up the liner and then jack up the stove and reinstall the legs?

Michael

From the measurements I took, I think that even if I reattached the legs where it sits now, it would be too tall still.

KB007 said:
What's behind the bottom row of bricks? Any chance you could take out the bottom row and re-install the lintel up a row? You might want to think about pulling the stove out a bit to get some better heat distribution, airflow around the stove.

If not, I'd be very cautious with cutting the legs due to bottom heat radiation. Remeber, your Ins. Co. would prolly drop you like a rock if they found out that you had midified the appliance - since I believe, any changes void all the UL certifications etc.... I had a bunch of similar question as I was thinking of installing a stove that way and was told in no way should I modify the unit, legs or any part of it for safety / insurance reasons.

If you can pull out some layers at the bottom and are still sitting in masonry / concrete within safe parameters, I'd go that route if changing the lintel was not an option.

I hadn't looked very closely at what would be involved with moving the lintel. I'll have to stick my head back in and see what it looks like. Inital impressions seem like that would be a more difficult task to accomplish?

I'm thinking that dropping the stove to the floor is probably the smartest move at this point. I'd have plenty of room and wouldn't need to modify the stove. The fireplace was installed over the basement floor concrete slab. I think if I take it down and reinstall a row of fire brick like mtcates did, I would be fine.

weatherguy · Oct 27, 2010

I hadn’t looked very closely at what would be involved with moving the lintel. I’ll have to stick my head back in and see what it looks like. Inital impressions seem like that would be a more difficult task to accomplish?

I remember reading a thread a few months back where the poster removed the lintel then a layer or two, it didnt seem to be too big of a deal but then again I didnt do the work, just saw the before and after pics.

n2x4 · Nov 9, 2010

Minor update - broke out the sledge. Decided to remove a few rows of bricks to get the stove to sit lower. Looks like I'll need a saw to cut through the fire brick inside the fireplace floor since the walls were installed over top.

mtcates · Nov 10, 2010

n2x4 said:
Minor update - broke out the sledge. Decided to remove a few rows of bricks to get the stove to sit lower. Looks like I'll need a saw to cut through the fire brick inside the fireplace floor since the walls were installed over top.

I'm sure you saw my thread where I did the same thing as you are attempting. I gave up on the hand held hammer and got an electric breaker when I got into the firebox and could not get a good hammer swing. The small demo hammers won't work very well on breaking the brick so I got a 65 pound electric. It was hard work and took a while to accomplish. A small angle grinder with a masonry wheel would work for scoring the brick on the side for a clean break. I just broke them with the hammer without scoring them. My advise to you is to just use the hammer because it creates far less dust than cutting the brick and wear a dust mask because brick and mortar creates a lot of silica dust which is harmful to your health. The dust this project created was horrible. It got all over the house. If you can get some painters plastic and make yourself a tent around the fireplace to contain the dust. I wish I had done that. If I were you I would take the brick down to the floor level and lay one new layer of brick or stone for the hearth and firebox.

FireAnt · Nov 10, 2010

Good choice taking out the hearth. I hearth mounted my 13 and love it.

n2x4 · Nov 10, 2010

Thanks for the tips guys. I've been looking at masonry chisels and cutoff wheels to use inside the fireplace. You're right about the dust, such a mess!

While the sledge might be the slow route, it's kinda fun to give the lady the big sledge and watch her take her best shot- LOL!

Hiram Maxim · Nov 10, 2010

I will offer a few pieces of advise!

Without a doubt I would purchase some side heat shields and as BEGREEN said a blower.

I'm sure BB and others who have a fireplace install will back me up on this?

The masonry will absorb a lot of YOUR heat! ;-P

And the blower pushes a tremendous amount of warm lovely heat :cheese:

Good luck with your project!

mtcates · Nov 10, 2010

Hiram Maxim said:
I will offer a few pieces of advise!

Without a doubt I would purchase some side heat shields and as BEGREEN said a blower.

I'm sure BB and others who have a fireplace install will back me up on this?

The masonry will absorb a lot of YOUR heat! ;-P

And the blower pushes a tremendous amount of warm lovely heat :cheese:

Good luck with your project!

I actually like the masonry absorbing the heat. Now granted my chimney is in the center of the house and the ceiling is 20 feet tall so I don't lose any of the heat. If it was on an exterior wall I would try to keep the masonry form absorbing the heat as it would be a waste because part of the heat would conduct to the outside. If I build a hot fire the masonry on both sides of my stove get to 200 to 250 degrees and when the fire dies down I in a sense have a small masonry heater to assist in heating the house, and a hot fire doesn't roast me out so bad because the brick absorbs so much of the heat. By turning on the fan I can get more of the heat off the stove instantly but if I want the brick to absorb more I will leave the fan off.

Hiram Maxim · Nov 11, 2010

mtcates said:
Hiram Maxim said:

I will offer a few pieces of advise!

Without a doubt I would purchase some side heat shields and as BEGREEN said a blower.

I'm sure BB and others who have a fireplace install will back me up on this?

The masonry will absorb a lot of YOUR heat! ;-P

And the blower pushes a tremendous amount of warm lovely heat :cheese:

Good luck with your project!

Click to expand...

I actually like the masonry absorbing the heat. Now granted my chimney is in the center of the house and the ceiling is 20 feet tall so I don't lose any of the heat. If it was on an exterior wall I would try to keep the masonry form absorbing the heat as it would be a waste because part of the heat would conduct to the outside. If I build a hot fire the masonry on both sides of my stove get to 200 to 250 degrees and when the fire dies down I in a sense have a small masonry heater to assist in heating the house, and a hot fire doesn't roast me out so bad because the brick absorbs so much of the heat. By turning on the fan I can get more of the heat off the stove instantly but if I want the brick to absorb more I will leave the fan off.

Have you burned through a Winter yet? My chimney is in the Center of my house too!

You also have way more side and top clearance with your set-up?

As you stated....You just put it in, so you will learn really quick come dead of Winter that with the masonry absorbing the heat, that your not getting roasted out ;-)

You live in North Carolina (beautiful State) however you folks do not get the Winter Cold that we do here in the North.
The install is going into a basement Fireplace in Northern Ohio :bug: And it also appears to be an exterior wall chimney.

We can stay at around 0°F or lower for a few weeks at a time with average highs being in the teens or twenties. When it get really cold you want every BTU getting out into the house!

Cheers,Hiram

n2x4 · Oct 23, 2013

3 years later - an update! Other house projects got in the way (as well as procrastination). I finally finished the stove install and wanted to share pictures with you guys. Ended up taking the lower brick out with a angle grinder with masonry disks, as well as a diamond tipped wheel (harbor freight has them, calls them diamond tipped turbo cup wheels). I also used an air chisel. I hired a guy to install the steel liner. He ended up taking out the damper and two of the fire brick to make the liner fit. I installed 18" of slate tile the width of the fireplace for my hearth and called it done.

begreen · Oct 23, 2013

Wow, that's a blast from the past. It looks great. Thanks for the update.

Can I make this stove fit in my fireplace?

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