Pellets per year vs. cords per year / going budget or going dealer

neversummer said:

Whats the real truth... I don't have access to my own wood for free, so if we are talking about 1300 sq. feet ranch supplementing with oil only when absolutely necessary, how many cords of wood should I expect to use vs. pellets?

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As far as wood usage goes, there are a lot of variables such as stove setup, wood type, insulation, etc. But a rough guestimate for our climate would be around 4 cords per year.

FYI I am in CT also and have a 1500sq. Ft. ranch. I burn 4-5 cords a year in my Regency I-2100 insert.

How much oil are you burning right now? That will give you an estimate on what you need to stock for wood/pellets.

Next question I have is do you think you're going to be able to put the time into wood? A cord of wood is 4x4x8, about twice as large and much harder to move around than a pallet of pellets. My decision to augment my oil boiler coincided with my decision to cut about 40-50 trees on my property. I get free wood, and I can tell you even free wood isn't cheap. $300 for chainsaw, $300 for wood shed, $200 for saftey gear, $100 for maul/wedges, $100 for cable. It adds up before you've lit your first fire.

If I had to buy wood I'd get pellets.

btuser says it all right there.

If I had to BUY fuel, I would buy pellets. Clean, easy, no fuss, no mess, load and relax for a few days before repeating.. The only downside I can see is the 'ol won't work without electricity problem. But a small genny would keep you running..

As far as how much you would use.. "x" number of btu's are needed to get your house warm and keep it there. The btu's of pellets are pretty standard as I understand it. In fire wood, the btu's by cord can vary quite a bit by species, but not by dry weight..

In other words, a cord of oak weighs more than a cord of maple, but a ton of oak weighs the same as a ton of maple. And the btu's available are in relation to weight rather than volume.

Unless I am confused... ;-)

I have to agree with the above two posts. If I had to buy wood, I wouldnt burn it. I would just buy a pellet stove. But for me, that takes the fun out of it. I love being in the woods and cutting firewood. Honestly, its relaxing to me. Anyway, as to pellets vs wood...Around our area, a 40lb bag of pellets will last around 24-36 hrs on a continuous slow burn. (at least that is what I was told when I was considering a pellet stove.) Im not sure exactly how many bag are on a skid. A skid is usually 1 ton. You will use more "Volume" of wood as you will pellets. I believe (correct me if im wrong) that pellets are a good bit more "dense" than wood. Meaning possibly more btu's/lb of pellets vs. lb of dry wood. Depending on the quality of pellets you buy. Im no pellet expert so I could be off a little...

As to a budget stove. Im suprised nobody mentioned Pacific Energy. They cost considerably less than Jotul and are built quite well for the price. Im very happy with mine and wouldnt hesistate to buy another. I dont know much about the others you mentioned, but im sure if others here recommend them, they are good.

The attitude should be IF you HAVE to buy wood. There are master scroungers on this site. I enjoy it, and need to do it regardless if my house were to ever see the sun again. I also don't like being locked into another controlled commodity. You escape from the oil man only to see the same guy show up in a different truck: "Oh, were a biofuels company too! Look at my green shirt, I'm an enviromentalist!".

not quite fitting, but based on the last post very appropriate

Claims of 'Green' Products Often Misleading
OTTAWA, Ontario—More than 95% of consumer products marketed as "green," including all toys studied, make misleading or inaccurate claims, says a report released Tuesday. The number of products claiming to be green increased 73% since 2009, according to TerraChoice, an Ottawa-based marketing firm owned mostly by Underwriters Laboratory (UL) of Canada. "The biggest sin is making claims without any proof," said Scot Case of UL Environment, adding that companies want consumers to "just trust them." The report finds "vagueness" is the second-leading problem.

Click here to read a news story.
Click here to read the "The Sins of Greenwashing" report.

If you are considering pellets or buying firewood, I would also consider coal if it is readily available in your area.

My last house had a pellet stove that we used quite a bit and my new house now has a pellet stove in the basement and a wood stove in the family room.

Things I like about the pellet stove
1) Easy to use
2) does not require frequent reloading
3) Adjustments to heat output and blower speeds.

Things I don't like about pellet stoves
1) No power = no heat
2) I have to buy pellets
3) I'm at the mercy of the market for pellet prices
4) I have boat loads of bags hanging around my house taking up space
5) If there is a pellet shortage you are SOL or have to pay gouger prices
6) the wood pellet fire just doesn't look as nice as a real one
7) I have had augers break and motors burn out.

Things I like about the wood stove
1) Wood is almost free
2) Even if I run out of trees scrounging free wood is easy enough if you have a truck
3) The calming feeling of watching a real fire can't be beat
4) I enjoy chopping wood
5) I enjoying cutting trees down
6) I enjoy stacking wood
7) For some reason heat radiating from a stove feels better then blower driven heat to me.
8) When the power goes out I'm still good to go!

Things I don't like about wood stoves

1) Heat is harder to regulate
2) moving and storing wood can get messy
3) Harder for people to load and maintain ie mother
4) Doesn't burn all night (I have a smaller stove)
5) A lot more hard work, personally I like working the wood but it is a lot of work

"Really Hot" in the last reply was spot-on regarding the pros and cons of woodstoves vs. pellet stoves. We've been burning fewer than 2 cords per year of mostly aspen in our 25 year old Country Flame freestanding stove (2600 sq. ft. passive solar house. Gotta love that solar!) My problem with pellets is the amount of embodied energy already in them by the time you open the (plastic) sack and start using it. I have no figures to back up my theory, but if one of your motivations is to try to be "greener", all the energy to process the pellets has got to negate the "green" advantages.

This forum has been great the last few weeks as we decide which stove to purchase to upgrade to a more efficient, cleaner burning woodburner and take advantage of the 30% tax credit. We're leaning toward an Osburn 1600, especially because if we order by the end of October the company will throw in an upgraded door (unknown to my local dealer and at least one of the online folks, apparently.) It also appears to be a well-engineered, well-built stove. Too bad it's not built in the USA...but at least it's not China. Still in the running is an Englander 13-NC, made in the USA. Hmmmm...decisions, decisions.

October 28, 5 degrees F this morning. That's life at 8,000 ft.

According to the pellet folks, the reason pellet fuel is green is because scrap wood (leftovers from mills) would just end up in a dump. Since pellets can be made of stuff nobody wants (switch grass, hay, bark) it also makes an argument for 'green'.

However, many pellet mfg use raw material (cut trees) to make their pellet.

Am I correct in saying that a pellet stove typically puts out less BTUs than a stove, so you would use a less pellets than wood, but only because you're heating less as well, so you'll either be colder or supplementing with oil/gas. Personally wouldn't buy a pellet stove - noise, cost of pellets (I scrounge), most friends with one have had to replace parts.

A wood stove, especially if you scrounge, is a lot of work, but I like the rigmarole, the silence, the real flames, the independence of not needing power.

CarbonNeutral said:

Am I correct in saying that a pellet stove typically puts out less BTUs than a stove, so you would use a less pellets than wood, but only because you're heating less as well, so you'll either be colder or supplementing with oil/gas. Personally wouldn't buy a pellet stove - noise, cost of pellets (I scrounge), most friends with one have had to replace parts.

A wood stove, especially if you scrounge, is a lot of work, but I like the rigmarole, the silence, the real flames, the independence of not needing power.

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I've seen a few threads about people complaining about the heat output of pellet stoves. I have no experience with them, though.

I think the difference in BTU output rating is wood stoves are rated for max output (high burn) whereas Pellet stoves are rated in BTU/Hr on highest feed level. You will see a small pellet stove being rated at 35,000 BTU (input) Medium 45 to 50K BTU and a larger over over 60K BTU.

If you go to this web site http://www.osburn-mfg.com/energy-calculator.aspx you can calculate cost in cord wood vs pellet/oil etc...

When we were faced with having to replace our furnace last year with something, I ended up deciding on a wood stove.

Number one reason: The experience. If I'm going to have a stove, I'm going to burn wood, the end. Pellets just seem boring. You can decide yourself if it's something that would be fun for you (looking at a shed full of bags of pellets just doesn't seem like it would be as satisfying as looking at a shed full of wood you cut, split and stacked yourself) or just be a hassle. Most of us here appreciate the wholesomeness and the ambiance of having a real wood fire in our houses. You have to be a special sort of masochist, though. =P

I will say, when I was going bananas trying to find wood for this year (first year woodburner's syndrome...) I thought about how easy it would be to just buy pellets, not having to worry about if it's seasoned or a good species of wood, etc.

Even if you live in a city, you can find free wood. Homeowners cut trees down and don't want the wood, storms knock them down, tree cutting people will work with you (they down a tree and you do the rest). Even if you don't have a truck, if you have a midsize or larger car or SUV, you can hitch a trailer to it. You can also buy some green wood from a seller for really cheap, and just season it yourself for next year.

I ended up going with an Englander from overstockstoves.com, and it was an absolute steal at $550. You can see if a local dealer will price match, but it's unlikely. Just make sure your installer is certified and you should be good to go!

~Rose

1-1 if 20% MC wood i guess..........pstove requires electricity

My adventure into pellet burning was an expensive joke. Have heated my house for the last several years on 5 cords seasoned hardwood per year. decided to try the pellet thing. they (the goverment ) say the average household in Ontario burns 3 1/2 to 4 tons of pellets per year. they say one ton of pellets is generally equal to 1.5 cord of seasoned hardwood. Last winter was fairly mild by our standards. I struggled to keep the house @ 68 running 2 pellet stoves 24/7 (God knows what the electricity cost) and used 8 TONS. Needless to say I am delivering the last of my 2 pellet stoves to a new home tomorrow. Trust me, it's a joke........................

Quote: Things I don’t like about pellet stoves
1) No power = no heat
2) I have to buy pellets
3) I’m at the mercy of the market for pellet prices
4) I have boat loads of bags hanging around my house taking up space
5) If there is a pellet shortage you are SOL or have to pay gouger prices
6) the wood pellet fire just doesn’t look as nice as a real one
7) I have had augers break and motors burn out.

Rational arguments for NOT going with pellet stoves. Pellet stoves do not put out.

Add to the other posts:

Low BTU output
Reliability, IF you're depending on the heater for heat. Not a good record over the minimum 5-6 year amortization.
The green reason: a high energy cost to manufacture pellets. And, There are no "Pellet Trees".
No standard for pellet content: could be softwoods, could be hardwoods.
Another above said "NOISE". The damn things sound like Water Torture--grinding, clinking, whirring. Talk about a Romantic Evening By The Fire !
Supply has been at best, irregular.

One sales pitch is that granny/granpa can "easily" fill the hopper. Sure, they hump the 50 pound bags up and over the inlet ! What does a split weigh ?

Besides, wood is a Lifestyle ( for you who are degreed, a Gestault :roll: ). Gives you the opportunity to get the O.C.D. WoodPiles. To scrounge year-round and meet people in the real world. Build your sedentary body up.
Learn the machismo of chainsaws. And, much more.........................

I am not opinionated. I am not opinionated. I.......................................

Pellet stoves are ok , check my Sig. But you can buy pellets that are good or bad its a veal shoot... some pellets are very good but usually they price is higher But I notice a big difference of heat output using high quality pellets.. however I don't like paying 250+ a ton to heat parts of my house I don't really use ... now my wood stove...... ahhhhhhh that baby throws heat , But there is a lot more work to it .....
My rule of thumb is to average a bag a day if I go higher I might as well pay for oil...
The way people sell pellets is well ... sh@ty ! Not trying to bash pellets but you can't compare wood vs pellets cost wise ... people say 1.5 cord to 1 ton pellets.... that's not true because of different factors ... species, quality of pellets, etc .. also , many think 200-250 for a cord of seasoned wood to 250-300 for a ton of pellets skip the work and go pellets for 50 bucks more... but when you buy wood green your price is usually 100-150 so can be a huge savings vs pellets...
I like my pellet stove for convenience ...set it forget it ... I really do ..
Honestly, I wouldn't get rid of any of them! Lol....

neversummer said:

Wow, this has been really helpful.

Truthfully, I could use the exercise. Did a quick craigslist search for "cord wood" in CT and found many hits for seasoned and unseasoned hardwood by the cord. Is it as ideal as cutting it myself or scrounging, no, but it saves this new homeowner from having to purchase all the requisite tools and still be able to heat the house with wood.

Wood insert it is! Now just to decide on which insert. Thanks everyone.

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Glad to hear you went with wood! You will truly enjoy it, i know i am! Just remember, what some craigslist seller's and other cord wood suppliers consider "seasoned", sometimes is not seasoned well at all. Look over some posts in the "wood shed" forum and you will find much info over there on proper wood purchasing and how to indentify properly seasoned wood.

Most of all, Have Fun!

BeGreen said:

Take that "seasoned" with a bit of skepticism at this time of year. Be sure to bring an axe or splitting maul when checking out the wood. Bring a moisture meter too if you have one. Resplit a large split and test it or put the freshly split surface against your cheek. If it is cool and damp, time to walk away or discuss the "seasoned" pricing.

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You are actually encouraging a non tech tool hands-on method for checking wood ? We may have a redemption here.

Similar Luddite methods all effective 100% guaranteed by 10 out of 10 long term serious wood burners:
1. Weigh the splits---by hand.
2. Check the ends for checking.
3. Possible 'seasoned' grey color.
4. Bat method--Knock 2 splits together: 'ring' =may be seasoned. Dull thud= no.

and, yes, the damp cheek. Onward.