Smoky Accentra

cac4 · Oct 27, 2010

Just starting my 3rd season w/ my Accentra...getting a lot of smoke smell. can't see it--just smell it. Aside from re-re-gooping the exhaust pipe (el-cheapo duravent) seams, what else should I check?
Is it too soon for the door gasket to wear out? how do I check?
This stove does have the mod for the "smoke in the hopper" issue; (plastic tube is there in the back).

Don2222 · Oct 27, 2010

Hello

The dollar bill test is used to check the door gasket.
Open the door and close it on the bill with half of it sticking out.
After the door is closed, if you can pull the bill out then your door latches need tightening or you need a new door gasket.

Also has anything changed in your house to add negative pressure, that could pull air out of your stove?
Example: A new Gable exhaust fan or whole house fan or is the exhaust fan for the kitchen stove being used more frequently?

If so and Outside Air Kit (OAK) on the pellet stove would help alot! It also keeps the house more comfortable by not sending heated room air up the pellet flue vent.

Also if you have a Boiler or a Furnace an OAK can eliminate alot of Negative pressure.
See pics of my new Boiler 4" diameter OAK in the thread below:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/58408/

Good Luck

summit · Oct 27, 2010

check gasket, check air inlet if oak installed, make sure no wasp nests in intake, check exhaust outlet, and air intake flapper... also check for cleanliness, clean out sawdust from feeder box, and old bits of pellets around/ inthat find their way everywhere.

newf lover · Oct 27, 2010

The dollar bill shouldn't come out at all? I can pull it out. Guess I better look into that!

mark d fellows · Oct 27, 2010

cac4 said:
Just starting my 3rd season w/ my Accentra...getting a lot of smoke smell. can't see it--just smell it. Aside from re-re-gooping the exhaust pipe (el-cheapo duravent) seams, what else should I check?
Is it too soon for the door gasket to wear out? how do I check?
This stove does have the mod for the "smoke in the hopper" issue; (plastic tube is there in the back).

What smoke in the hopper mod? Mine did that once and I cleaned the slide plate as I read that it is the "gummy stove" syndrome. I took out the slide plate, cleaned off all the sap and such, and it has worked fine ever since.

You can do the dollar bill trick on the door, and you can also listen for a whistling sound when the stove starts up.

When is the last time you cleaned out the flu?

What does the flame look like? Energetic or lazy?

cac4 · Oct 27, 2010

I have an OAK. The fancy Harman one, at that. I'll check...but I doubt there's a problem there, as the stove seems to "work" just fine. (flame is fine, etc).
there is nothing else in the house sucking air. Furnace is off; no other exhaust fans in operation.

Just did the whole "soup-to-nuts" cleaning before starting up for the season, including a thorough brushing of the flue, and vacuuming out of the slider box.

The mod I mentioned is a plastic tube that runs from a spot right next to the air intake to a spot on the feeder housing. From reading other threads, I thought that this was a modification that was to keep the appropriate pressure in there that keeps the exhaust gases from backing up into the hopper.

Door latch: there could be something there. I've felt that something wasn't quite right when closing it...though it was just a little sticky, but perhaps its out of adjustment?

The door gasket "looks" ok. It looks plump and pliable...but I don't recall what a brand-new one looks like. I was able to pull a dollar bill out without much resistance, but its hard to tell if I got it caught in the gasket. Its a long reach from the outer edge of the door to the gasket. If it was really leaky, wouldn't that affect the flame/burning?
...which brings me back to the exhaust pipe/flue. wouldn't that be the only thing that can leak, and not affect stove operation?

Dougsey · Oct 27, 2010

Chuck- Did you by chance remove the cap off your cleanout T when you cleaned the stove?

cac4 · Oct 27, 2010

Yep. put it back on, when I was done, too.

And even if it fell off...its outside. my chimney goes out, then up.

Dougsey · Oct 27, 2010

Ok... hmmm... it seems like you have an exaust leak somewhere.

Delta-T · Oct 28, 2010

when you replaced the "T" did you goop that up with silly-cone? sorry, just saw you said its outside. the most common place for exhaust leak, from my experience, is right at the mating point of the pipe to the stove flange. That whole cast flange to steel pipe interface is ornery sometimes.

cac4 · Oct 28, 2010

Yeah...I'm going to go after that joint again w/ the goop. Its really hard to access, as the stove is tight to the corner. The only sealant I could find was the caulking gun tube, and its impossible to maneuver that thing in such a tight space. I'm going to transfer some goop to a small syringe, and see if I can't get that in around the underside of things a little better.

Delta-T · Oct 28, 2010

put on a rubber glove, squirt RTV into palm, dangle yourself behind the stove and smear it like crazy. when you think you have enough, put a lil more....think of it like BBQ sauce....theres never too much on there. %-P

cac4 · Oct 29, 2010

Ok, I've re-gooped. we'll see if it worked when it cools off again. (been warm the last few days).

I did inspect the fresh air intake...everything looks ok there. Also fiddled with the dollar-bill gasket test. Its very snug along the sides of the door. Along the top, though, its not too hard to slide it out. You can feel some friction there, but it slides out pretty easily. The gasket doesn't look like its all flattened out, or anything like that.
It dawned on me, though, that while this is only my 3rd season burning, the stove sat in a warehouse for a couple of years. It has a 2006 build date on it. So I assume it sat in a warehouse for 2 years with the door closed, putting pressure on the gasket the whole time. So, maybe its more like 4 years old, rather than 2.

How often do the door gaskets need replacement?

Someone else mentioned adjusting the door latch...didn't look to me like there was anything to adjust. nothing in the manual about that, or gaskets; only routine cleaning information under "maintenance".

any other symptoms of a leaky gasket? would the stove not burn right?

I have been getting very dirty glass, very quickly (within a day of cleaning). I thought it was crappy pellets. They leave a brown residue over everything...even the ash looks brownish. very hard to get off the glass, and it clouds up within 24 hrs after cleaning.
The pellets are a generally well-reputed brand, but they were in a flood. when they were delivered last year, they were obviously re-stacked, and not factory wrapped. The driver told me that they'd been outside in a low area, and had gotten flooded, but only the bottom layers were affected. They re-stacked all the un-submerged bags.
When I was moving them into the house, (store them in a walk-out basement), I did find a half-dozen bags that were obviously damaged, which I returned and exchanged. I haven't found any obviously tainted pellets since, as I went through the supply. They look perfectly normal. the other day, I even tried the moisture test, by nuking some in the microwave, with a saucer over the bowl of pellets...there was only a light fogging of the bottom of the plate. no blatantly obvious moisture, there. not enough to "drip".

mark d fellows · Oct 29, 2010

cac4 said:
Ok, I've re-gooped. we'll see if it worked when it cools off again. (been warm the last few days).

I did inspect the fresh air intake...everything looks ok there. Also fiddled with the dollar-bill gasket test. Its very snug along the sides of the door. Along the top, though, its not too hard to slide it out. You can feel some friction there, but it slides out pretty easily. The gasket doesn't look like its all flattened out, or anything like that.
It dawned on me, though, that while this is only my 3rd season burning, the stove sat in a warehouse for a couple of years. It has a 2006 build date on it. So I assume it sat in a warehouse for 2 years with the door closed, putting pressure on the gasket the whole time. So, maybe its more like 4 years old, rather than 2.

How often do the door gaskets need replacement?

Someone else mentioned adjusting the door latch...didn't look to me like there was anything to adjust. nothing in the manual about that, or gaskets; only routine cleaning information under "maintenance".

any other symptoms of a leaky gasket? would the stove not burn right?

I have been getting very dirty glass, very quickly (within a day of cleaning). I thought it was crappy pellets. They leave a brown residue over everything...even the ash looks brownish. very hard to get off the glass, and it clouds up within 24 hrs after cleaning.
The pellets are a generally well-reputed brand, but they were in a flood. when they were delivered last year, they were obviously re-stacked, and not factory wrapped. The driver told me that they'd been outside in a low area, and had gotten flooded, but only the bottom layers were affected. They re-stacked all the un-submerged bags.
When I was moving them into the house, (store them in a walk-out basement), I did find a half-dozen bags that were obviously damaged, which I returned and exchanged. I haven't found any obviously tainted pellets since, as I went through the supply. They look perfectly normal. the other day, I even tried the moisture test, by nuking some in the microwave, with a saucer over the bowl of pellets...there was only a light fogging of the bottom of the plate. no blatantly obvious moisture, there. not enough to "drip".

Are you sure the flu isn't making it back up and out of the air inlet?

I don't think a leaky door gasket would make you smell smoke.

The reason why is that the burn chamber is under negative pressure. The combustion fan is after the burn chamber and right before the flu. The only part that is under positive pressure is the exhaust (thus people telling you to recheck the exhaust)

A leak in the exhaust won't make a dirty flame, but will make a smokey smell.

I backed up exhaust will make a dirty flame, and a smokey smell, and a dirty burn chamber.

Bad pellets will make a dirty burn chamber.

Loose door gasket makes a lazy flame, a dirty burn chamber(crude on glass), and no smoke smell, unless your flu is backing up.

For what it is worth, I have noticed a slight smokey smell when I am burning crap pellets. Especially on low.

Could you have some weird drafting issue?

One more thing, I had never heard of the moisture test. Thanks for informing me!

Mark

mark d fellows · Oct 29, 2010

I have two more questions,

1 when is the last time you did the "leaf blower trick"

2 how long have you been running the stove with that mod? Has it been years, or did you do it at the end of last season, and this year you have problems?

I don't know about where you are but it has been very mild in my area. I have been running my stove in the high 50s and even at 60 outside. The type of exhaust you have, as I am sure you know, as you either installed it like that, or had it installed like that, is much more efficient when it is cold outside.

When it is cold, the hot air rises more easily out of that long vertical run. So much so, as I am sure you know, that is it is a very good way for the exhaust gas to exit the stove if you loose power.

So, I bet the problem might go away when it gets cold outside.

Also, how close are your neighbors? Did your neighbor change anything about the structure of his yard or house? For example, is is possible that the direction of the wind flow has changed to increase the atmospheric pressure around the outlet of your exhaust do to a change in structure of your neighbors house? A blind stab in the dark as usually it is simple wood burning stoves that are effected by this, but hey, a guess is a guess.

Mark

cac4 · Oct 29, 2010

mark d fellows said:
I have two more questions,

1 when is the last time you did the "leaf blower trick"

never. don't have an electric leaf blower. I didn't think it would be necessary with this particular stove, anyway, because of how its shaped and so forth...everything is right there in front of you; no hidden crevices where ash can get.

mark d fellows said:
2 how long have you been running the stove with that mod? Has it been years, or did you do it at the end of last season, and this year you have problems?

what mod?
do you mean "the chimney"? its been set up like this from day 1.

mark d fellows said:
I don't know about where you are but it has been very mild in my area. I have been running my stove in the high 50s and even at 60 outside. The type of exhaust you have, as I am sure you know, as you either installed it like that, or had it installed like that, is much more efficient when it is cold outside.

When it is cold, the hot air rises more easily out of that long vertical run. So much so, as I am sure you know, that is it is a very good way for the exhaust gas to exit the stove if you loose power.

So, I bet the problem might go away when it gets cold outside.

could be. I'm in New England, and it hasn't been really cold here, yet. (no frost at my house, yet). When it has been running, its running at very low setting, so perhaps that is contributing. I can't believe anything is restricting the exhaust, though. ran the brush through every inch. The pipe has only a 4' rise. 1 to 1.5 feet from the back of the stove out to the T.
and I did plumb it this way in case of power outage...which is very rare here at my house. It did happen once last winter. It went out in the middle of the night, and by the time I got up, the stove was stone-cold...no idea how well it worked, except that I didn't smell anything.

mark d fellows said:
Also, how close are your neighbors? Did your neighbor change anything about the structure of his yard or house? For example, is is possible that the direction of the wind flow has changed to increase the atmospheric pressure around the outlet of your exhaust do to a change in structure of your neighbors house? A blind stab in the dark as usually it is simple wood burning stoves that are effected by this, but hey, a guess is a guess.

Mark

not an issue, there. Closest house is ~300' away, at least. nothing has changed...nothing close to this corner of the house.

cac4 · Nov 2, 2010

Ok, back to the seasonably chilly weather, and the stove is back on. Seems better since I re-gooped the exhaust pipe some more.

But today, I got a whiff of smoke, while sitting here at the computer. Stove has been on steady, for hours. I looked out the window, and saw a puff of smoke passing by. I'm thinking that at least some of my smoke smell is coming in from outside, through a leaky window, or something.

But also, there shouldn't be visible smoke at the exhaust outlet, either...except on startup. I figure that has to be damp, or otherwise crappy pellets.

I checked the oak, and its not blocked...pulled the pipe right off the stove, and inspected the intake...flapper is free and unobstructed; flame was unchanged by taking off the oak.

what else could cause visible smoke at the exhaust outlet? the only other times I've ever seen anything there (beyond the startup smoke) is when it is extremely cold--low single-digits, or sub-zero weather, in which case, it isn't smoke, but condensation from the hot air hitting the extreme cold air.

dlivoli · Nov 8, 2010

I have a Harman Accentra Freestanding Stove. We bought it in 2006. In the Spring of 2007, I believe I had one incident of the smoke in the hopper. I called the dealer and he said that was not normal. It went away and I never had it again until now, so I never questioned it.

I have burned Lignetics, New England, Energex and Nature's Heat.

Never had it again until this year. I started burning Nature's Heat in 2008. Never had a problem. Burned probably 1 1/2 tons of it. The company said it is all Hardwood.

I have had the cleaning service done from the dealer every year. This year we had it done in May because we had to move the stove because we had a hardwood floor installed. I reattached it but I figured get the cleaning early before it is tough to get the appointment. The tech. came and made sure all the fittings were attached correctly.

Flame is fine- everything fine. The smoke in the hopper came back. So my wife made me call the dealer. Dealer said there might be a "modification" that can be done. So far, I have only burned 3 bags of pellets. The dealer came and said everything was fine, but the stove was not maintained. He scraped the auger and had all these clinkers near it. I said it was just serviced. Back and forth, he left me with a bill of $112.50. I did not pay it. I told him, "It's not like I let it go for 2 tons and never cleaned it. It has been only 3 bags." We burned for 15 minutes and no smoke. He is saying it's the pellets.

I lit it yesterday and the smoke has come back. Not even a bag after he rammed a screwdriver into the burn pot and got some stuff out. When those guys clean, they clean it pretty hard.

Before, I would not have to take it apart for a month or so to clean, as I would use the tool, scrape and relight.

It sounds like this is not an isolated problem. I do have the outside air kit that was installed on day 1 becase it is close to a window. Any thoughts on this? I have never had a draft test or anything. The tech. said the stove is drafting fine.

Should I get the mod? It sounds like this may be the fix. I hope I am not going to have an issue with this now.

Any thoughts?

millhouselives · Nov 11, 2010

Hi,

Just jumping in here, as I have same exact issue as original poster. My 3rd season w/ my Accentra free standing. I also just cleaned, can only smell smoke not see it. I have the stove mod since stove was installed three years ago. Using same pellets I had last year, had some left over.

Gasket looks good and all stove pipe is taped. Now I will say this the vent about the door where the "hot air" is pushed out into the room is where I can smell the smoke smell coming out along with the hot air.

I do have some black shiny (cresote?) in stove on back plates and I have noticed a flame once in a while from what seems to be either the bottom or side of the burn chamber, which leads me to believe that some of the cresote is getting hot enough to burn and flaming. Of course when that happens I see smoke swirling around about the ash bin.

I did clean some this fall removed back plates, stove pipe and did serious vacumming of insides and clean pipe with pipe brush, etc. I did know how to get rid of black stuff on plates and other inside parts of stove. I thought that it would burn off?

So now wondering if the black cresote is normal and I need to get it out and if so how, metal brush, solvent of some kind?

thanks,

dlivoli · Nov 11, 2010

I contacted the company that put the stove in. They are going to replace the burn pot and feeder system. The metal only, not the electronics/motor. They can also drill the hole and put the tube in.

First when I was on the phone, he asked me to reach into the rectangular opening at the bottom where the pellets finally drop. I put my finger in there to the left and reached up like I was touching the roof of the base of the hopper. He asked me what it felt like. It did not feel smooth and my finger was a little sticking to it.

Now, they have to clear everything with Harman, order the parts and install. This can be done in the home, but it is involved.

I guess Harman has redesigned the feeder system to "roll" with the times. Now that there are many pellet manufacturers that have emerged on the market, they can tell you anything to sell pellets. I would only burn hardwood. I would not purposely buy a softwood pellet, yet I can tell if a company is lying to you until you burn the pellet.

Some pellet manufacturers put some kind of oil additive in the pellet to bind it. This can create the creosote that hardens up as clinkers and get stuck in the stove. It sounds like Harman has come up with something to have this problem not occur. I am looking forward to it. No more but known great pellets from me. I have used Nature's Heat in the past and have had good luck.

Pennington did send me a form to fill out. They said to take the pellets back to Wal-Mart for a refund, send them the slips, any repair bill, a handful of pellets and an empty bag so they can get the lot numbers. They would even pay for postage. The problem is I got them from Wal-Mart, brought them home myself in my trailer. So that means I will have to hump 70 bags back to Wal-Mart!

As long as the Harman gets fixed correctly, it should be all set.

millhouselives · Nov 11, 2010

Glad to hear that you are getting you stove fixed via the modification and other parts from your dealer. But the original poster and myself both already have this modification and we both are having smoke smell issues in our houses, so it something else that is most likely causing our problems.

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