NC-30 BURN

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forvols

Member
Dec 6, 2007
55
NORTHEAST TN
Good day,

Looking for some opinions. I started buring my NC-30 last night. Its in the basement needed some nurse maiding although I am really new to EPA stoves (replaced a fisher grandpa bear with the 30).

Here is whats going on today:

42degrees outside
exterior chimney (unlined tile) 26ft
NC-30 is hooked up via 6in thimble in the basement wall
wood - 2yr old oak and last year split poplar
stove top - 450degrees
stack temp - 250-300
air - open 1qtr
Secondary burn - very little
smoke - little to no smoke

I can fully open the air and the stove still cruises about 450-500 w/no secodaries
shut down the air to half - secondaries start to fire
sht down the air to qtr - secondaries firing good but then die off but stove still runs about 400-450
The only way I can get the stove up to 600 or so is by cracking the door 1in.

Any recommendations. Sounding to me like it may be a draft issue. The outside temperature is supposed to drop to night so I am wondering if that will help. Maybe get down to 30-33degrees

Thanks for the help
Tony
 
Sounds like the 6" thimble goes to the exterior chimney. Yes - sounds like draft. I'm assuming you went from a cold start. Your flue might have needed more time to get hot in order to establish a strong draft. Have you checked your flue for obstructions? The outside flue is going to have a tougher time drafting vs. an interior flue. Perhaps give the initial fire a longer time burning hot to establish a good draft. Are you monitoring flue temps (I can remember from the post). If I'm starting from a cold start, I always let the first stages of the fire burn hot - allowing the stove pipe to get to about 800*, then start dialing down - it creates a good strong draft in my oversized flue (11" square tile). Cheers!
 
6in single wall pipe 30in high with 1 90degree going into the wall thimble. that connects to the 26ft exterior chimney that is clay tile lined. not sure on the size. but the old fisher drafted like crazy. It also had an 8" flue that was connected to a reducer to 6in.
 
Yes I am monitoring stack temp about 2ft up the single wall pipe. I let the pipe get upto about 500degree before I backed it down. I will try going higher. No obstructions in the flue, inspected it yesterday before I started burning.
 
on cold starts try leaveing the door slightly ajar with a good bed of kindling under 3 or 4 small splits. Then bring the stove top temps up to 500 degrees before you start backing down the air control in small increments . Once the wood is well charred back the air down but make sure to maintain some flame at the bottom of the fire to achive good secondaries. It should get even better after a few fires with a couple inchs of ashes left on the bottom for insulation. Excellent choice on the nc30, i doubt there's a better made stove in their price range.
 
does your chimney have an ash cleanout door? if so check to make sure it does not leak air into the flue , this will reduce draft and rob your stove of air, if the cleanout door has no seal , try using some of the thin foam like you shut in windows to seal them to close off any air leakage in the cleanout door , see if this allows the stove to build up heat better. ive seen this happen in the past with epa stoves in masonary flues
 
forvols said:
Yes I am monitoring stack temp about 2ft up the single wall pipe. I let the pipe get upto about 500degree before I backed it down. I will try going higher. No obstructions in the flue, inspected it yesterday before I started burning.
Click to expand...

500 degrees 2 feet up from the stove top seems a bit high to me? I try to keep my stove pipe under 450 and I measure it only 8 inches up from the stove. When I have it dialed in I like my stove pipe to be around 400 and my stove top to be 600 to 650, although I struggle to keep my stove top this low once it gets below 35 to 40 degrees outside. When it is 35 to 45 degrees outside, my stove drafts and burns beautifully :)
 
Good suggestion on the cleanout door Mike. I like to put a bead of silicone on the sealing edge, then close it.

The other thing to check is for air gaps at the stove flue collar. If large, stuff some furnace cement into them and let it cure.

The new stove will need a bit stronger draft. What is the tile size in this chimney?
 
astrodon said:
500 degrees 2 feet up from the stove top seems a bit high to me?
Click to expand...

With out clarification - I would guess this to be internal probe temps. Again, I am guessing, but I suspect that you are reading surface temps. BIG difference in the two. At 450F surface, you are probably running close to 900F internal. If my assumptions are incorrect, please clarify.
 
Not sure on the tile size (I inspected it from the bottom via camera - so not very good I know ). I want to pull the cap tomorrow and measure.

No ash clean out door.

I will burn tonight and try some of the recommendation. I think I need to throw in some patience to when adjusting the air. Let the stove get hotter before stepping down the air and give that change some time and watch. If a favorable change them adjust again wait and watch.

Oh if you have the NC-30 and dont have the fan. Get the fan, I installed that yesterday that sucker moves some air and heat. I think it was very much worth the price. Now I just gotta get the burn technique down.
 
The tile size is important. If the flue tile is large it may have been suitable for the Fisher, but too large for the Englander.

Still, I suspect that once the outside temps drop another 10 degrees, this may not be as much of an issue. Draft will increase significantly with colder temps. Note, the blower will reduce stove top temps somewhat. On our stove is it about a 100-150F drop with the blower going, so factor in this as well. If that is the case and the stove top temp without the blower running is more like 550F, then things could be running just fine.
 
Jags said:
astrodon said:
500 degrees 2 feet up from the stove top seems a bit high to me?
Click to expand...

With out clarification - I would guess this to be internal probe temps. Again, I am guessing, but I suspect that you are reading surface temps. BIG difference in the two. At 450F surface, you are probably running close to 900F internal. If my assumptions are incorrect, please clarify.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am talking surface temperature of the stove pipe, and that is what I assumed the OP meant as well. But now that you mention it, I am not sure how the OP measured :( Maybe I'm off on this, but if it was a probe measuring 500, then that would be approximately 250 surface and that seems awfully low, even for 2 feet up?
 
astrodon said:
Jags said:
astrodon said:
500 degrees 2 feet up from the stove top seems a bit high to me?
Click to expand...

With out clarification - I would guess this to be internal probe temps. Again, I am guessing, but I suspect that you are reading surface temps. BIG difference in the two. At 450F surface, you are probably running close to 900F internal. If my assumptions are incorrect, please clarify.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am talking surface temperature of the stove pipe, and that is what I assumed the OP meant as well. But now that you mention it, I am not sure how the OP measured :( Maybe I'm off on this, but if it was a probe measuring 500, then that would be approximately 250 surface and that seems awfully low, even for 2 feet up?
Click to expand...

Yep, or at least that is the way I was taking it as well. As you said, 500F on the surface is really hitting the max point of a safe burn.
 
forvols said:
......

I can fully open the air and the stove still cruises about 450-500 w/no secodaries
shut down the air to half - secondaries start to fire
sht down the air to qtr - secondaries firing good but then die off but stove still runs about 400-450
The only way I can get the stove up to 600 or so is by cracking the door 1in.

.....
Click to expand...

Just reread your post. My NC-30 can take a lot of fine tuning in between half and one quarter. After the secondaries light off at half, try making smaller adjustments and maybe space them out a few more minutes until it settles in. I have had quite a few fires when it is in the 40's with the stove open about a half. Like you, I have a clay lined flu (7x11) and I think part of the problems I have had with dialing in mine to cruise have to do with my 30 foot, interior, 3 flu masonry chimney taking a long time to come to a stable temperature. It drafts well regardless, but if I think I have it dialed in after 30 to 45 minutes sometimes the flu still has some warming up to do and I can come back a half hour later to more draft and an 800 degree stove!
 
astrodon said:
Jags said:
astrodon said:
500 degrees 2 feet up from the stove top seems a bit high to me?
Click to expand...

With out clarification - I would guess this to be internal probe temps. Again, I am guessing, but I suspect that you are reading surface temps. BIG difference in the two. At 450F surface, you are probably running close to 900F internal. If my assumptions are incorrect, please clarify.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am talking surface temperature of the stove pipe, and that is what I assumed the OP meant as well. But now that you mention it, I am not sure how the OP measured :( Maybe I'm off on this, but if it was a probe measuring 500, then that would be approximately 250 surface and that seems awfully low, even for 2 feet up?
Click to expand...

The probe will be reading about 50% higher than the surface thermometer. If the probe is reading 500, then a surface thermometer would be reading about 334 °F.
 
I am measuring the pipe temp with an external thermometer 2ft above the stove top. I let it get to 500* and backed off the stove. Pipe temp fell to about 250*. I also have an external thermometer on the center of the stove top at the collar. With the stove at 400-450 the pipe temp is about 250-300.
 
forvols said:
I am measuring the pipe temp with an external thermometer 2ft above the stove top. I let it get to 500* and backed off the stove. Pipe temp fell to about 250*. I also have an external thermometer on the center of the stove top at the collar. With the stove at 400-450 the pipe temp is about 250-300.
Click to expand...

Surface temp of a stack running 500F is MAX. Don't go higher if at all possible. Your hitting the danger zone.
 
Ok 500 max.

The door glass is still very clean also. Tonight will be colder 30-33*. I am hoping that will make a difference in the draft. I also think I was making air adjustments to large and to quickly. Like tuning an old carb.
 
Put a liner in that chimney and you ain't gonna believe how sweet that stove burns.
 
What happened to all the people that said dont worry about flue temp, now we say 500 max, 500 surface is not that high. I really think some of the info on this forum is misleading and confusing to the new people here. I was singled out as giveing the worng information to new people, now I know that was incorrect!
 
BeGreen said:
astrodon said:
Jags said:
astrodon said:
500 degrees 2 feet up from the stove top seems a bit high to me?
Click to expand...

With out clarification - I would guess this to be internal probe temps. Again, I am guessing, but I suspect that you are reading surface temps. BIG difference in the two. At 450F surface, you are probably running close to 900F internal. If my assumptions are incorrect, please clarify.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am talking surface temperature of the stove pipe, and that is what I assumed the OP meant as well. But now that you mention it, I am not sure how the OP measured :( Maybe I'm off on this, but if it was a probe measuring 500, then that would be approximately 250 surface and that seems awfully low, even for 2 feet up?
Click to expand...

The probe will be reading about 50% higher than the surface thermometer. If the probe is reading 500, then a surface thermometer would be reading about 334 °F.
Click to expand...

That's what Condar says but has been proven wrong here by many members. Internal temps are at least double external temps and even higher as external temps get up over 500. Time to retire that old probe of yours Begreen, they are only suppose to be accurate up to 2 years or so.
 
The surface temp is what you are really worried about correct?
 
forvols: What sort of temps are you seeing on the stove top, just in front of the flue collar?

I generally don't pay much attention to the flue pipe temps, and tend to focus more on stovetop temp.

Stovetop temp on that stove will cruise around 550.

It really sounds like it could be a draft problem. I'm going to second the suggestion of putting a liner in. The 30 is one heck of a heater, but if you don't have adequate draft, it's not going to be able to do what it was designed to do.

-SF
 
Last nights burn:

OUTSIDE 38*
STOVE HAD GOOD COAL BED 2-3in deep
newspaper kindling (poplar/pine) - got that going good
3 small splits of poplar got that going good
3 small splits of oak - got that going
door cracked .5in or so
got stove top to 600* (ext temp) / flue 475ish(external) / closed the air down to half and latched the door.
let the above burn down some - stove settled at 500 / flue 375 / air half open - secondaries firing / no fan
added:
1 6in beech round and 3 larger oak splits - got that going- stove back to 600* / flue 475*/air fully open - door cracked .5in / no fan
closed air half way - stove stettled at 550* / flue 375* / let it cruise that way for about an hour/ turned fan on high - stove top dropped to 475 / flue 350 - let it cruise for about an hour that way. Secondaries firing so-so.
turned the fan off and cut the air to 1/4. Some secondaries stove stayed around 450-475 flue dropped to about 300-325. let the load burn down to coals. Probably 4hrs of really good heat - I did not reload - shut the air down and went to bed - stove was still at 450*

Viewing and stove operation was better this burn. I think I was trying to get things going to fast in my understanding of an EPA stove. Plus a drop in outside temp and me getting the flue hotter/longer before making adjustments. I also put in a bigger load of wood.

I probably do need a liner but we will see as colder temps come into my area. Going to measure the tile today and take picts.

I really believe I made an excellent choice of stove though. When it was cruising the heat was great Got my basement up to 80* it is all open and uninsulated.

Thanks to all for recommendation. I will continue to tweak and learn and keep you posted on my experience(s) with this stove.

Tony
 
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