Chimney liner cleanout question

pixelmountain · Nov 15, 2010

I'm obviously missing something. ;-) In all my reading about DIY stainless chimney liners, I can't figure out how the cleanout works.

In particular, if you have a chimney setup like in this diagram, how does one remove creosote after cleaning the chimney? Do you have to remove the stove pipe where it enters the chimney inside the house, to access the bottom of the T?

Our old brick chimney is similar to that diagram, but it continues downward to an unfinished basement below, where the current cleanout hole is. It seems sad to waste all of that chimney height for a liner that only extends to the stove opening, but I know it needs to be relined. So I'm doing my research.

The good news is I think we really could do this ourselves, since the chimney is straight, the length of liner would be less than 15 feet, and the roof is easy to work on.

Thanks in advance for any clarification,

- Rachel

pixelmountain · Nov 15, 2010

Was it THAT dumb a question? ;-) (No sarcasm intended – I'm accustomed to discussion forums and the time it might take to get an answer. I'm truly wondering if it's a dumb question...)

begreen · Nov 15, 2010

pixelmountain said:
I'm obviously missing something. ;-) In all my reading about DIY stainless chimney liners, I can't figure out how the cleanout works.

In particular, if you have a chimney setup like in this diagram, how does one remove creosote after cleaning the chimney? Do you have to remove the stove pipe where it enters the chimney inside the house, to access the bottom of the T?

Our old brick chimney is similar to that diagram, but it continues downward to an unfinished basement below, where the current cleanout hole is. It seems sad to waste all of that chimney height for a liner that only extends to the stove opening, but I know it needs to be relined. So I'm doing my research.

The good news is I think we really could do this ourselves, since the chimney is straight, the length of liner would be less than 15 feet, and the roof is easy to work on.

Thanks in advance for any clarification,

- Rachel

Patience. Yes, you need to pull the pipe from the thimble and vacuum out the bottom of the tee after cleaning.

What stove is this? Less than 15' of flue can be a problem for some stoves, especially with a couple 90 deg turns in the smoke path.

pixelmountain · Nov 15, 2010

BeGreen said:
Patience.

Sorry, yes – see my edit above.

Yes, you need to pull the pipe from the thimble and vacuum out the bottom of the tee after cleaning.

Gotcha. Wow – that seems like quite the effort compared to the "old" method. But doable.

What stove is this? Less than 15' of flue can be a problem for some stoves, especially with a couple 90 deg turns in the smoke path.

I was wondering about that. It's a new non-catalytic Vermont Castings Encore. (And yes, I know the feelings about those here, but it's a done deal so I'll do my best with it.)

The 90 degree turns are JUST like the diagram posted above... And that's how it is now, but with just the unlined brick chimney.

Draft is quite good now. (EDIT: Well, that's with our old, leaky non-EPA stove. We don't yet know how the draft is with the Encore.) Do you think lining the chimney with such a short liner will have a negative effect on draft?

pixelmountain · Nov 15, 2010

A couple of things that probably help in terms of draft: There's about 6' of stovepipe before the first 90 degree bend (into the chimney). And the chimney is inside: right in the middle of the house. As I understand it, the good run of pipe before the first bend helps the hot air get some speed upward. And of course the chimney being inside the house is good ...

But I did wonder if, after lining the chimney with stainless, the short run of pipe inside the chimney and up to the top is going to be a problem. Thoughts?

OhioBurner© · Nov 15, 2010

Well I have wondered the same questions since we have an internal brick chimney and like you describe ours continues on down to the basement with a cleanout down there. I was told we had to extend the liner down below the tee to get within arms reach of the cleanout door, so you would clean it out from the bottom just like before. However, just having it stop at the Tee might save money in liner, though I dont know how well you could really clean it out, especially if you cant physically reach it and just relying on a vacuum.

So no, not a dumb question. if you've never dealt with this type of thing how could you know? I didnt even think relining ours was possible - no way to fit a traditional Tee in there if its only 8" deep. Then the guy at the stove shop showed me a Tee that the horizontal leg didnt extend out at all, and was held in place by a strap that you feed it through on the way down. Pretty clever Tee!

begreen · Nov 15, 2010

pixelmountain said:
A couple of things that probably help in terms of draft: There's about 6' of stovepipe before the first 90 degree bend (into the chimney). And the chimney is inside: right in the middle of the house. As I understand it, the good run of pipe before the first bend helps the hot air get some speed upward. And of course the chimney being inside the house is good ...

But I did wonder if, after lining the chimney with stainless, the short run of pipe inside the chimney and up to the top is going to be a problem. Thoughts?

Interior lined flue will help. What will to the total height be 6' + 15' or 15' total? This stove is particular about draft. The two 90's are going to be like shortening the flue 6'.

According to the manual, the recommended minimum chimney height is 16’ (4.9 m). But that is at sea level.

r_d_gard · Nov 15, 2010

Mine is exactly the same setup as your picture. For giggles I brush mine out once a month.

Climb on the roof. undo the cap. brush it out, all 25' of it. Put the cap back on. Go inside, remove cap off bottom of T and then empty contents.

takes about 15minutes all told.

pixelmountain · Nov 15, 2010

BeGreen said:
What will to the total height be 6' + 15' or 15' total? This stove is particular about draft. The two 90's are going to be like shortening the flue 6'.

15' total, and barely that.

According to the manual, the recommended minimum chimney height is 16’ (4.9 m). But that is at sea level.

I see that. And at our altitude it's more like 22'.

I haven't been worried about this TOO much because we've always had great draft. Plus I wasn't aware this stove is so particular about draft, compared to others.

I'm tempted to line the chimney all the way down to the cleanout hole in the basement, to maintain that tall column of air that seems to have been serving us well this far.

pixelmountain · Nov 15, 2010

rayza said:
Go inside, remove cap off bottom of T and then empty contents.

Maybe I'm still missing something...

If my stove had this liner attached in this way, before this step I would need to remove the stove pipe where it enters my brick chimney. The T is behind that, inside the chimney, and not accessible any other way.

r_d_gard · Nov 15, 2010

Is your stove infront of a fireplace? or does the chimney go further down and you just "tap" into the chimney where the liner is situated.

pixelmountain · Nov 15, 2010

rayza said:
Is your stove infront of a fireplace? or does the chimney go further down and you just "tap" into the chimney where the liner is situated.

There's no fireplace. This is a freestanding wood stove and yes, it's tapped into the chimney on the main story of the house. The chimney extends from the basement.

So I get it – your setup is in a fireplace, so you can access the T easily there.

r_d_gard · Nov 15, 2010

Correct. I just reach into the fireplace cavity and pop the Cap off the bottom of the T and dump the contents.

You have a really intriguing setup.

Can any of the experienced Guru's chime in on this doozy. How to clean out a chimney with no access portal.

Ray

pixelmountain · Nov 15, 2010

rayza said:
You have a really intriguing setup.

Heh. In some ways it's really ideal. The wood stove is in the center of the house, where it keeps us warm. The chimney is in the center of the house, where IT is kept warm.

In other ways – I'm learning today – it's not so good. It's a very short chimney when you're just counting from the stove up and out.

Which makes me think perhaps the best solution would be to line all the way to the basement cleanout hole, IF that will maintain a good draft.

begreen · Nov 15, 2010

pixelmountain said:
BeGreen said:

What will to the total height be 6' + 15' or 15' total? This stove is particular about draft. The two 90's are going to be like shortening the flue 6'.

Click to expand...

15' total, and barely that.

According to the manual, the recommended minimum chimney height is 16’ (4.9 m). But that is at sea level.

Click to expand...

I see that. And at our altitude it's more like 22'.

I haven't been worried about this TOO much because we've always had great draft. Plus I wasn't aware this stove is so particular about draft, compared to others.

I'm tempted to line the chimney all the way down to the cleanout hole in the basement, to maintain that tall column of air that seems to have been serving us well this far.

Did the dealer discuss this with you? Essentially you are going to be trying to run a stove that wants a 20'+ chimney (at altitude) on a 9' flue. This will not be improved by dropping the liner down below the tee. If it doesn't work out right, what's the recourse?

pixelmountain · Nov 15, 2010

No, this has been planned completely as a self-install. We've asked very little of the dealer, who doesn't do installations himself (farms them out to independent contractors). Everything seemed to be in place, but obviously I didn't fully understand the chimney demands.

We'll have to think. Any other input is welcome. Ways to improve the chimney to make this work? Personal experience from people in similar situations?

Thank you!

begreen · Nov 16, 2010

So that you get more eyeballs on this, start another thread on the stove topic and leave this one about the cleanout. I would title the new thread "VC Encore non-cat draft question" and give the specifics, including altitude and the flue description.

pixelmountain · Nov 16, 2010

BeGreen said:
So that you get more eyeballs on this, start another thread on the stove topic and leave this one about the cleanout. I would title the new thread "VC Encore non-cat draft question" and give the specifics, including altitude and the flue description.

Good point. I'll do that.

And thank you. I really appreciate all the help.

Chimney liner cleanout question

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