EKO or E CENTRAL

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skfire

Feeling the Heat
Nov 15, 2010
372
NEPA
Greetings to All....and thank you for a great and very informative site/forum.

I am at a crossroads in deciding which boiler to go with.
I have a new home, 8 years old, very well insulated, all radiant heat in gypkreet and currently being heated with a Buderus LP converted Boiler.

I want to add a wood gasification boiler, but the option of it being in the basement is VETOED by the wife, due to any smoke issues stemming from the EKO.
Also the flue from within the basement is almost 30 feet to the roof.

Thus I am exploring the idea of the E Central 1400/2300(is it really a gasification boiler?), outside about 80 feet form the house,
but I really like the EKO/ORLAN 40.

My question is REGARDING THE CHOICE OF E CENTRAL, OR EKO IN A SHED.
Can the EKO be SAFELY housed in a standalone shed(not enclosed, just side walls and roof), without any problems, such as corrosion or other elemental damages?

Thank you and all the help is greatly appreciated.

Scott
 
Welcome Aboard!

Many, many EKO users here. A Few E users too. I've never run either so I can't say. I htink if you spend some time searching around here, you get an idea pretty quickly that one of those units is, um . . . well, n/m.

Welcome!
 
I have the Olan Paxo (like an Eko). The unit will freeze, at least your pipes and/or pump. I have mine in an enclosed outbuilding (lost my house in 1988 to a electrical fire - don't like the smell of smoke it the house anymore). I have heard of 6x6 enclosed buildings for an Eko, my boiler is in a 6x12 room with attached 10x12 wood storage. You should seriously consider the gassificaton over the OWB due to near term emissions issues.
 
If you do a quick search here I think you may quickly uncover some less than stellar reviews of the e classic. And for what it worth I get zero smoke in my house from my eko after learning how/when to load.

Read on!!!
 
Scott, I would check into the Portage and Main boiler, true gasification, www.portageandmainboilers.com
I think you will like it better than the Eclassic. Vigas also advertises here. Make sure you insulate the pipes good. Foamit UP
 
If you went with the EKO I personally think you would want it inside of a building with an area for wood storage.The wood for a gasification boiler not only has to be well seasoned,but DRY ,meaning not wet from snow,rain sitting out in the open.It makes operating the boiler alot easier.Nothing better than reloading the boiler and having instant gasification---nothing worse than messing around for half hour to hour with wet wood.I would think the same would be true for the OWB gasifiers.
 
I'd build a 12 x 20 (at least) lean-to if you don't want to spend alot up front, under it make a small enclosure for the EKO. You should pour a slab. When you have the funds you could close the whole thing in later. You don't want to be loading wet/snow covered wood in any boiler, and standing out in it will get old also. I'm quite satisfied with my EKO 60 in an out-building, tough to beat the EKO -product for the dollar. I'd stay away from the e-classic personally, do some searches on this site. Good luck.
 
Hunderliggur said:
I have the Olan Paxo (like an Eko). The unit will freeze, at least your pipes and/or pump. I have mine in an enclosed outbuilding (lost my house in 1988 to a electrical fire - don't like the smell of smoke it the house anymore). I have heard of 6x6 enclosed buildings for an Eko, my boiler is in a 6x12 room with attached 10x12 wood storage. You should seriously consider the gassificaton over the OWB due to near term emissions issues.
Freeze up in an open front, closed sided shed, or freeze up in an enclosed unheated(other than the boiler) building with an access door? Or both?
I am burying the tubes(maybe even using the thermopex stuff), 18 inches down along with copper solar supply/return lines. About 75 feet from the house.


foamit up said:
Scott, I would check into the Portage and Main boiler, true gasification, www.portageandmainboilers.com
I think you will like it better than the Eclassic. Vigas also advertises here. Make sure you insulate the pipes good. Foamit UP
Impressive, but heard about troubles with creosote(could just be user error with large wet wood/slabs) and cleaning/accessibility issues withe heat exchanger turns(lots of them)....also not enough "word" about them. I am definitively checking them out....as well.

Regarding the CB e1400/2300, I have head of serious issues, but also f some effective company upgrades...

Hydronics said:
I'd build a 12 x 20 (at least) lean-to if you don't want to spend alot up front, under it make a small enclosure for the EKO. You should pour a slab. When you have the funds you could close the whole thing in later. You don't want to be loading wet/snow covered wood in any boiler, and standing out in it will get old also. I'm quite satisfied with my EKO 60 in an out-building, tough to beat the EKO -product for the dollar. I'd stay away from the e-classic personally, do some searches on this site. Good luck.
Seems very logical, but what type of enclosure for the EKO under the shed are you proposing and how do you run the flue through both?
I like the idea and it may work for me....

I have a CB dealer 12 miles away, an EKO 7 miles away, but none other...do you find the proximity of dealer a necessity?I can also buy online...

"Dough" is also an issue, since the price of adding an enclosed building(foundation, walls, doors, roofs and permits) as opposed to an open faced shed($900 installed no permits & all steel) makes the OWB a bit more reasonable...I think....maybe wrong, so set me straight.

A sincere THANK YOU to ALL and please keep up the advice, I am soaking it up and intend on using it, in making an informed decision.


Scott


ps: what is the story with the 2 versions of the EKO(green and white doors, or the all dark green)..heard different stories.
 
Very happy with my e-classic 2300.
Took about 2 painful weeks to get over the learning curve. Mine is in a 15' by 18' wood shed about 100' from the house. I couldn't see myself shoveling this thing out from under 3' of snow come Feb. to clean out the ash chamber. No problems with smoke as long as you're burning well seasoned wood. Love not dragging wood into the house.
 
I am also burning an e-2300 for my third year and have also had the learning curve. I have got it on a great schedule now burning willow and very happy with performance. heating an 1877 farmhouse and 2300 sq. ft. shop.
 
Scott,
A few other things to consider:

I don't think proximity to your dealer matters after the initial sale. I know most C.B. dealers will UPS you anything you need or help you over the phone if needed. I'm sure other manufacturers dealers are the same.

Pouring a slab in the shed is well worth the dough. I like being able to sweep out bark and other junk from around the door area. I'm always worried about a loose spark or ember landing on the ground outside the door when I'm cleaning. Having a good clean surface makes me feel better. It also makes a good level surface to split on if needed.

Whatever owb you buy, spend some quality time laying out where it will sit in the shed. Leave plenty of room behind and on sides to service.

I.M.O, Thermopex or other similar brands are well worth it. I have 140' of 1 1/4 Thermopex buried about 20" deep and have very little heat loss. Shop as many dealers as you can to get the lowest price.

Don't skimp on accessories. Buy high quality heat exchangers, pumps etc.

Good luck!
 
The 2300 was VERY unforgiving. Thank God or CB for improving to the 1400, 2400 and now the 3200. Much easier to use. The main thing is go with your gut. You will be fine
 
shagy said:
The main thing is, pay no attention to what salesmen say, some of um lie most of the time and most of them lie some of the time
 
I was at a central boiler dealer yesterday and they told me they use 1" line to heat up to a 8,000 sq ' building. Comments like that scare me away.
 
woodsmaster said:
I was at a central boiler dealer yesterday and they told me they use 1" line to heat up to a 8,000 sq ' building. Comments like that scare me away.

'Up to', sure.

Twenty five btu per square foot heat load, not unreasonable, equals 200,000 btu / hour.

Ten feet per second velocity, not unreasonable for PEX, equals 5.8 gallon per minute.

5.8 gpm for 1.0" PEX equals less than 0.024 psi per foot pressure drop, equals 8.6 feet pressure drop for 75 ft one-way, 150 ft round-trip, well within the performance envelop of a 80 watt Taco 008.

Seventy degree deltaT for a radiant floor system, not unreasonable.

70 * 5.8 * 500 = 203,000 btu per hour.

If deltaT is lower or btu per square ft is higher, no can do, but 'up to', sure.

--ewd
 
Sounds like you are new to this idea....and you have found the best place, I think, on Earth to really learn more. The one thing not mentioned yet is storage. Storage is the real key to get very clean, efficient burning. Your boiler can burn fast and hot and place all the heat into storage, say a 1000 gallons of water in an insulated tank. You later will take hot water from this tank to suite your needs.

I have a Garn just coming online....it has 1500 gallons of water integrated into the unit...yep, it is big. Most of the other gassers use external storage, often either homemade tanks or old propane tanks. This makes a huge difference in the cleanness and efficiency of the burn.

Without the storage, I know many users of the gassers have problems with creosote, etc. because the boiler attempts to throttle back, i.e. idle. This is not on inefficient, it is often smokey. You can read many many threads on this.

When I was doing all my searching for what to buy, I kept coming back to the Garn, but I didn't like the price tag. When I really investigated a gasser, and then adding storage capability, the price kept coming in close enough to the Garn that for me, it was worth investing in the Garn. Now, that is largely because I don't see myself being the guy to refit the propane tanks..but buying them refit, which is around $3K I think. Check out Ahona.

You will find this is not an inexpensive hobby! But there is something very satisfying to shutting off the oil boiler, or gas boiler, and being warmer than ever..... One must not forget, firewood usually doesn't arrive at your boiler free. There's lots of work involved in this, or you write a substantial check for firewood. I think you have to enjoy the work there, else I'd think someone would be miserable with wood burning.

Just a few thoughts....but rest assurred, you have come to the right place with the right questions....
 
I want to thank you all for your great responses....this truly is a great place to educate ones' self.

I have been splitting 5 -7 cords annually by hand for my Rumford fire place and basement wood stove for the last 8 years now, so this next step is vital for me....I love the "wood life"...

I am going to be checking pout a 1400 and 2400 this afternoon, so I will keep you all posted...

Looking into the shed idea and I came up with a carport layout plan(see pdf attached).
I already have a carport for my tractor and store wood on the sides(about 3-4 cords).
It is 900 delivered/installed and is not a taxable or permit required building in my township....seems nowdays they tax/collect for everything..

On another note, I just had my face melted by the Garn data and videos. Great.... now I have more ideas.

Thank you again.
Scott
 

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Welcome to the forum Skfire. What you said originally in your OP was making sense - the wife rejected the indoor install due to smoke. But now you just said that you've been running a woodstove in the basement for a while. So, is the Boss tired of the smoke you have now, and doesn't want any in the future? If she's ok with what you currently get, then you really shouldn't have any problem with an EKO in the basement - as Stee said, good loading habits will result in little or no smoke. A basement install would eliminate the expense of the outdoor piping and shed. You could use those funds for storage, or just pipe it to easily add the storage down the road. But I'm not knocking the Garn - if you have the bucks it's a great choice. Good luck whichever way you go!
 
willworkforwood said:
Welcome to the forum Skfire. What you said originally in your OP was making sense - the wife rejected the indoor install due to smoke. But now you just said that you've been running a woodstove in the basement for a while. So, is the Boss tired of the smoke you have now, and doesn't want any in the future? If she's ok with what you currently get, then you really shouldn't have any problem with an EKO in the basement - as Stee said, good loading habits will result in little or no smoke. A basement install would eliminate the expense of the outdoor piping and shed. You could use those funds for storage, or just pipe it to easily add the storage down the road. But I'm not knocking the Garn - if you have the bucks it's a great choice. Good luck whichever way you go!


I did not say I have been running a wood stove in the basement for awhile, I said I have been splitting wood for a fireplace and a stove .....maybe I should have been more succinct. So please read on below:

The basement wood stove is used for emergencies such as power outages, or extremely cold nights(5 & below) to take the edge off.
It is never on on a daily basis. I keep my basement thermostats set at 58F.
That is manageable, but the daily smoke/ash influx of dedicated indoor burning is not acceptable to her or myself for that matter.
The rumford fireplace in the LR is fine, no smoke or ash(only when there is negative draft due to warm weather or "silliness" on my part but it devours wood...lots of it(puts out mad heat as well, thermostat 26 feet away from Rumford in glass wall room reads 70F within 2 hours of burn, when 10f outside)

I agree with your synopsis on the EKO, but I have seen 10 or more already, they are burning great and the operators are very efficient with loading/management schedules, but there is consistently residual smoke and ash. In my basement in a house that is very weather tight, it is not an acceptable or desirable condition. I was even warned for the need of a smoke hood over the Eko
I appreciate the effectiveness for others, but have investigated this option and decided against it for said reason amongst a few others.

The Garn is massively costly(including the barn/building need) and the OWB Gasifiers are still an option.

Still digging....

Thank you for your great advice. Please continue..

Scott
 
ISeeDeadBTUs said:
shagy said:
The main thing is, pay no attention to what salesmen say, some of um lie most of the time and most of them lie some of the time
Yep ..Those bad bad dealers out there. They don't even know how to put wood in these stoves. Also NEVER buy from a dealer that says they own one.. Even if you look at it.Don't believe them! Its most likely his mother in-laws and she operates it. Ask her if ya want to know anything about it. :)
 
Or, here's a thought. . . try asking a group of people who use them day in and day out and have no pecuniary bennies coming to them no matter what brand ya buy. And my unofficial compilation is that the e didn't work so great. Damn paperclip fixes.
 
I guess this lady know more than most on any brand out there. Why she is slaming comments on this forum that is to help people with different ideas is beyond me. Then again I think she has a Greenwood ( are they still in business) Give us advice on that brand. Sad one has to spout off when they have no experience with a brand they don't have.
Like I said before go with your gut and no matter what brand you buy it will work as long as you follow the manufacture and dealers instruction on running it. This is very fasinating technology and we have much further to go with it. Minds have to be open to all ideas :)
 
shagy said:
I guess this lady know more than most on any brand out there. Why she is slaming comments on this forum that is to help people with different ideas is beyond me. Then again I think she has a Greenwood ( are they still in business) Give us advice on that brand. Sad one has to spout off when they have no experience with a brand they don't have.
Like I said before go with your gut and no matter what brand you buy it will work as long as you follow the manufacture and dealers instruction on running it. This is very fasinating technology and we have much further to go with it. Minds have to be open to all ideas :)

Maybe... just maybe DeadBTU's wants to keep someone from making a BIG mistake by not BLINDLY listening to a salesperson. For heavens sake they may buy one
that ends up having it's energystar rating revoked!!! ;-) If the OP listens to some of the owners that spent there hard earned money and not only what the salesman says
they will do just fine.
 
kabbott said:
shagy said:
I guess this lady know more than most on any brand out there. Why she is slaming comments on this forum that is to help people with different ideas is beyond me. Then again I think she has a Greenwood ( are they still in business) Give us advice on that brand. Sad one has to spout off when they have no experience with a brand they don't have.
Like I said before go with your gut and no matter what brand you buy it will work as long as you follow the manufacture and dealers instruction on running it. This is very fasinating technology and we have much further to go with it. Minds have to be open to all ideas :)

Maybe... just maybe DeadBTU's wants to keep someone from making a BIG mistake by not BLINDLY listening to a salesperson. For heavens sake they may buy one
that ends up having it's energystar rating revoked!!! ;-) If the OP listens to some of the owners that spent there hard earned money and not only what the salesman says
they will do just fine.
Any one purchasing any thing should have a open mind when listing to anyone including dealers.More so with people who do not own or have any experience with a brand they knock.We see most brands on here have people that have issues with a brand they buy. Does that make that brand a bad brand? I don't think so. There are some out there that cant find there way out of bed let alone run a stove.
I have experience with 2 brands (yes the Energy Star rating bit me :( although many on here love that stove) I do not have a clue on other brands and would not offer a opinion on any of them. I don't think its fair or just.
 
Yet, through all of your diatribe, you never mention that you sell this brand that you then tell new people is the greatest thing since slice cheese.

Disclosure, Shagy, disclosure. That's all anyone can ask.
 
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