Not using enough propane!

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Propane was quoted @ $3.25 gallon back in August....I"m sure it is more today. My range/oven and furnace is propane so I'm somewhat stuck. I don't pay rent and so far have not gotten any flack from the supplier for not using my usual 400 gallons (which would have been about 800 based on others usage last year). I have a 500 gallon tank which is currently 40% full. I don't plan on buying any gas this year if possible. I think they made so much $$$$ last year that they don't even care if I burned any or not!
 
PastTense said:
Some of the posters here don't realize the wide spread in retail propane rates across the country. See:
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_a_EPLLPA_PRS_dpgal_w.htm

As of the latest week, rates per gallon range from $1.64 in Nebraska to $3.55 in Rhode Island.

Instead of the big national chains a better choice is farm cooperatives or small independently owned firms. To get the best rate the best advice is to buy your own tank and shop around.
Buy your own tank and you are committing yourself to propain heat. And if you have a wood stove then your amortization will be several yrs. I'm sure glad I didn't because as things turned out I ended up ridding this property of propain. After 14yrs with the same company they up and changed how they did business. I had no contract with them but they said it didn't matter and the new terms were in a letter. Another thing I don't like is if for any reason you want to move or relocate a tank.....WOW get ready to take it in the azz. Pump out fee 100, move fee 100, leak test 100, then refill at whatever the new rate is even though it was your propain they just put in their truck. So I remodeled once. Moved my own tank myself, relocated no problem. Hahaha until they come to fill and see it moved. Thats when it got ugly here. They started in with all that stuff I just wrote and thats when thank went to the road. And then they had the gall to want to change me to come after their own tank....yep another 100.00. Screw propain!
 
I agree with the other posters, i would buy a couple of tanks at lowes or HD. I think they are about $119. You can take them to be filled at a place that sells propane at a competitive price in your truck and transport them through your yard with a 2 wheeled cart.

You could also consider a electric hot water heater but I am not sure where the math comes out on that.
 
Flatbedford said:
The problem is that not onky is the central heat propane, but I make hot water and cook with it too. So, I am stuck with it for now.


buy your own tank. they can be had for cheap used.
shop around to have it filled.
 
When I moved into my house, there was a 500 gallon tank already here. propain supplier is 3 blocks away. went in and told them that I would like to start a new service, only needed a 250 gallon tank. They pullled past delivery records, showed me how much the prior owner used a year, and said I should use 1500-2000 gallons a year. told them that I would only need a 250 gallon tank. they refused to change tanks out, but only charge me the rental fee of the 250. never signed up for auto refill, but they come and do it anyways, if the tank is under 50 percent full. Told thm I would call them if I neeed a fill. Figured if they are gonna make me use the 500 gallon tank I should use it to buy low and save till winter. So thats what I do. Use about 400 galons last year. They told me that if I did not use more then they would come out and put a smaller tank in. AND charge me for all the fees. Pulled out the contract and all it says is that they have the right to switch tank to what ever size they feel is appropriate for annual usage. NO mention of assosiated fees. So I told them to go ahead and switch tanks, to the 250 just like I asked them to do 2+ years ago. But that I would pay no fees as they were not outlined in the contract. their responce, "lets give it a year or two more to see if your usage balances out" Still sittin on a 500 gallon tank. Average price of propain this year for me $2.08 a gallon. Mom and Pop shop, in business for many years. Well respected in the town, easy to work with!!!
 
The key is the contract. Once yours with Suburban expires, shop around for a company that has a contract that you can live with. Take out the contract and read it carefully to make sure they are abiding by the terms. Also, I'd cancel the auto-fill option if possible. They always seem to be in the neighborhood when the propane is skyrocketing.
 
Run out your contract and then buy your own tank. You can then shop around without having to get into a contract. I own my tank and during the summer buy when the price is cheaper. You just pay and they bring it out when you need it. I got 600 gallons, this year it was 1.69 a gallon. My friend at work just called and it is up to 1.74 a gallon. By the way auto-fill is a bad choice unless you can lock in a price.
 
Buying a tank or 2 is the way to go. You can even find them sometimes just laying around still within their date stamp. Not many fill places check or care if they are in date either. They are easy to drag around the property on any light hand truck by tying them in place so they don't roll. Straps work best. That's the best way to dodge all those thieving fees they are tossing around these days. Beat them at their own game!!!
 
I just looked into my situation because I was just charged for $4.06 per gallon a week ago. Turns out that this rate is based on my annual usage, market conditions and tha fact that I am leasing the tank (which is underground by the way). This is with Suburban propane.
I asked how much per gallon if I wasn't leasing the tank and was quoted at 2.70 per gallon. WOW! that's a huge difference. Basically I am being charged $50 per month/$600 a year to lease this tank. I told them that I wanted them to come get their tank and I would go somewhere else. I was told for this to happen it would cost me around $1400 for them to dig it up. Turns out I signed a lease stating this (unfortuantely I was uneducated in this when I signed and the tank was already installed from previous owner.)
So now my cheapest option is to purchase the tank that I am leasing from Suburban for $800 and I will get the $2.70 pergallon rate and agree to purchase from Suburban for a year. After that year, I am free to get propane elswhere with my tank. I called around however, and all the companies are around the 2.70 per gallon price. so my best option is to buy the tank and it will be paid for in a year.
the totally stupid thing I found out in all this, is that if I use less propane below a certain threshold...guess what?......they charge me a higher price. What a scam!
 
MDfireguy said:
I just looked into my situation because I was just charged for $4.06 per gallon a week ago. Turns out that this rate is based on my annual usage, market conditions and tha fact that I am leasing the tank (which is underground by the way). This is with Suburban propane.
I asked how much per gallon if I wasn't leasing the tank and was quoted at 2.70 per gallon. WOW! that's a huge difference. Basically I am being charged $50 per month/$600 a year to lease this tank. I told them that I wanted them to come get their tank and I would go somewhere else. I was told for this to happen it would cost me around $1400 for them to dig it up. Turns out I signed a lease stating this (unfortuantely I was uneducated in this when I signed and the tank was already installed from previous owner.)
So now my cheapest option is to purchase the tank that I am leasing from Suburban for $800 and I will get the $2.70 pergallon rate and agree to purchase from Suburban for a year. After that year, I am free to get propane elswhere with my tank. I called around however, and all the companies are around the 2.70 per gallon price. so my best option is to buy the tank and it will be paid for in a year.
the totally stupid thing I found out in all this, is that if I use less propane below a certain threshold...guess what?......they charge me a higher price. What a scam!
See why I call it "Propain"! What other kind of business charges you to stop using their service? Its a trap so you will stay. Above ground tanks give you more leverage. If it were me I would just dig it up myself and do like I did, stick it up close to the road and tell them to get their junk off my property. I don't see how any company can legally charge you to stop doing business with them which is what they are doing by charging to come retrieve their own property from yours. I told them to shove it and they backed off.
 
When they told me I wasn't using enough I asked them to send me a print out of my last few years usage. It came in the mail the other day. I went from just over 900 gallons to 460 when we bought the Fireview! That's just about what I paid for it with the sale price and the tax credit. I will look into purchasing a tank.
 
MDfireguy said:
I just looked into my situation because I was just charged for $4.06 per gallon a week ago. Turns out that this rate is based on my annual usage, market conditions and tha fact that I am leasing the tank (which is underground by the way). This is with Suburban propane.
I asked how much per gallon if I wasn't leasing the tank and was quoted at 2.70 per gallon. WOW! that's a huge difference. Basically I am being charged $50 per month/$600 a year to lease this tank. I told them that I wanted them to come get their tank and I would go somewhere else. I was told for this to happen it would cost me around $1400 for them to dig it up. Turns out I signed a lease stating this (unfortuantely I was uneducated in this when I signed and the tank was already installed from previous owner.)
So now my cheapest option is to purchase the tank that I am leasing from Suburban for $800 and I will get the $2.70 pergallon rate and agree to purchase from Suburban for a year. After that year, I am free to get propane elswhere with my tank. I called around however, and all the companies are around the 2.70 per gallon price. so my best option is to buy the tank and it will be paid for in a year.
the totally stupid thing I found out in all this, is that if I use less propane below a certain threshold...guess what?......they charge me a higher price. What a scam!

Man. This is bad. But....not my decision to make, but it might work out best in the long run to just buy it from them and move on. I know, it is painful. But you are stuck, here, and at least you'll end up with a tank you own. I would want to make darn sure the tank is in excellent condition, first, before I bought it. But it might just be the way to go, under your circumstances.
 
[quote author="MDfireguy" date="1289847832"] Turns out I signed a lease stating this (unfortuantely I was uneducated in this when I signed and the tank was already installed from previous owner.) quote]

Not wanting to be a jerk but here's the issue. Ride out this contract and learn from the mistake. It could have been worse.

(Not sure how to separate my comments from the quoted ones)
 
SteveKG said:
MDfireguy said:
I just looked into my situation because I was just charged for $4.06 per gallon a week ago. Turns out that this rate is based on my annual usage, market conditions and tha fact that I am leasing the tank (which is underground by the way). This is with Suburban propane.
I asked how much per gallon if I wasn't leasing the tank and was quoted at 2.70 per gallon. WOW! that's a huge difference. Basically I am being charged $50 per month/$600 a year to lease this tank. I told them that I wanted them to come get their tank and I would go somewhere else. I was told for this to happen it would cost me around $1400 for them to dig it up. Turns out I signed a lease stating this (unfortuantely I was uneducated in this when I signed and the tank was already installed from previous owner.)
So now my cheapest option is to purchase the tank that I am leasing from Suburban for $800 and I will get the $2.70 pergallon rate and agree to purchase from Suburban for a year. After that year, I am free to get propane elswhere with my tank. I called around however, and all the companies are around the 2.70 per gallon price. so my best option is to buy the tank and it will be paid for in a year.
the totally stupid thing I found out in all this, is that if I use less propane below a certain threshold...guess what?......they charge me a higher price. What a scam!

Man. This is bad. But....not my decision to make, but it might work out best in the long run to just buy it from them and move on. I know, it is painful. But you are stuck, here, and at least you'll end up with a tank you own. I would want to make darn sure the tank is in excellent condition, first, before I bought it. But it might just be the way to go, under your circumstances.

Thats exactly it! It's cheaper to buy the tank because I would have paid for it anyway with the price they are charging me now. The only down side is that the tank and any problems down the road will now become my headache. Oh well such is life!
 
MDfireguy said:
MDfireguy said:
Thats exactly it! It's cheaper to buy the tank because I would have paid for it anyway with the price they are charging me now. The only down side is that the tank and any problems down the road will now become my headache. Oh well such is life!


Yes, that is the deal with doing it yourself. It's a compromise. We live completely off-grid and let me tell you, though I like it, there are times I am tired just thinking of the stuff I need to repair. But ultimately, doing it myself is preferable to dealing with overcharging companies, sloppy and undependable workers, etc.
 
MDfireguy said:
I just looked into my situation because I was just charged for $4.06 per gallon a week ago. Turns out that this rate is based on my annual usage, market conditions and tha fact that I am leasing the tank (which is underground by the way). This is with Suburban propane.
I asked how much per gallon if I wasn't leasing the tank and was quoted at 2.70 per gallon. WOW! that's a huge difference. Basically I am being charged $50 per month/$600 a year to lease this tank. I told them that I wanted them to come get their tank and I would go somewhere else. I was told for this to happen it would cost me around $1400 for them to dig it up. Turns out I signed a lease stating this (unfortuantely I was uneducated in this when I signed and the tank was already installed from previous owner.)
So now my cheapest option is to purchase the tank that I am leasing from Suburban for $800 and I will get the $2.70 pergallon rate and agree to purchase from Suburban for a year. After that year, I am free to get propane elswhere with my tank. I called around however, and all the companies are around the 2.70 per gallon price. so my best option is to buy the tank and it will be paid for in a year.
the totally stupid thing I found out in all this, is that if I use less propane below a certain threshold...guess what?......they charge me a higher price. What a scam!


I would look into the fine print on your contract and if you don't have it handy demand they furnish you with it. Call it just me but I get wild when any corporate entity attaches itself to me like some parasite and you should too. If they have it which is doubtful or you otherwise can look at it take a good look at the fine print about disconnecting and the ramifications. I mean the real ones, not the "take away your nest birthday stuff they toss about verbally". Chances are you have an out and if you do send them a certified letter demanding they remove their equipment from your premises as soon as possible and that you neither want or will accept their services again. Then put a lock on their damned tank cap or something over it until they make it go away. I seriously doubt they can force you to buy from them further but make sure at the very least. Keep it locked unless you are there so they don't slip one in on you just to stick it to you for one last parting raping.
Oil companies around here loved to do that when the end of the fuel contract season came around. Just drop by on April 17 when the contract expired on the 15th so they can sell you a load before the summer price drop. At least if you check it all out and find out you are stuck you will be satisfied with yourself that you didn't just sit there and take it in the tail. Just remember these people can and will "say anything" to get what they want regardless if it's legal just like a debt collection agency. The thing is that there is usually a VAST difference between what they say they can and can actually do. Usually it's nothing at all in real terms but take away your birthday and I quit having mine about the time I grew a pair of brass ones.
 
I would look into the fine print on your contract and if you don't have it handy demand they furnish you with it. Call it just me but I get wild when any corporate entity attaches itself to me like some parasite and you should too. If they have it which is doubtful or you otherwise can look at it take a good look at the fine print about disconnecting and the ramifications. I mean the real ones, not the "take away your nest birthday stuff they toss about verbally". Chances are you have an out and if you do send them a certified letter demanding they remove their equipment from your premises as soon as possible and that you neither want or will accept their services again. Then put a lock on their damned tank cap or something over it until they make it go away. I seriously doubt they can force you to buy from them further but make sure at the very least. Keep it locked unless you are there so they don't slip one in on you just to stick it to you for one last parting raping.
Oil companies around here loved to do that when the end of the fuel contract season came around. Just drop by on April 17 when the contract expired on the 15th so they can sell you a load before the summer price drop. At least if you check it all out and find out you are stuck you will be satisfied with yourself that you didn't just sit there and take it in the tail. Just remember these people can and will "say anything" to get what they want regardless if it's legal just like a debt collection agency. The thing is that there is usually a VAST difference between what they say they can and can actually do. Usually it's nothing at all in real terms but take away your birthday and I quit having mine about the time I grew a pair of brass ones.
I hear what your saying and I think I will look further into it. Thanks!
 
It sounds like they were "value adding" their lease rate on top of the per gallon charge and when you didn't order enough to cover what they wanted for the lease, they just upped the rate they tacked on per gallon. I'm in a dispute with Amerigas regarding something similiar the did last winter because we hardly used any gas for heating the house, relying on the woodstove instead.

Not having ever had a propane tank before, the house we bought from a foreclosure bank came with a buried 500 gal propane tank. There was no tag or decal identifying the tank as belonging to any of the various propane companies that serve the area. Anyway, there were no exclusions in the sales agreement, all things on or in the property were sold to us and the title insurance company reported no easements or leins so we believe we owned the tank free and clear.

My sister was an Amerigas customer and she recommended that I call them for service. The serviceman showed up with an "Above Ground Tank Lease or Service Agreement, copied the numbers off of our regulator and tank, filled it up for about $1.60 a gallon and left. Come winter we were being hit with $4.00 a gallon charges for propane. When I complained I was told they owned the tank. They even told me that it would be "illegal" to have another company fill my tank. I wrote, asking for proof of ownership and advising them they were prohibited from entering on our property until the matter was resolved to our satisfaction. In response they sent me a copy of the service agreement, no letter, no nothing, just an envelope with a copy of the agreement and the serial numbers highlighted in yellow marker. I responded with another letter stating I was terminating the service agreement and included copies of my title insurance docs and sales agreement docs that we signed with the mortgage company. We never got a response. Now they're sending me bills for a lease. Just today I got notice that our account was terminated effective 12/15. So I guess my next move will be to send a letter to the Attorney General's office. We've already placed a padlock on the tank but I'd almost wish they'd try to come on the property to turn our propane off.
 
Look at this from a financial point of view and do the numbers. I am in the South and dont even know what heating oil looks like, so I can only speak about propane. I built a house 2 years ago and chose propane for my cooking needs. I have a geothermal HVAC and burn wood so it barely turns on in the winter. My choices were to rent a tank for $4 a month/$48 year or purchase a new one for $750 delivered. I purchased, because at the 1% interest rate the bank was giving me on my money I would earn $7.50 a year or I could save $48 a year if I purchased. The other financial reason for purchase is to buy at low prices. I keep a record of prices and buy at the low. Here is an example of my purchase this summer, which is also my first purchase since building 2 years ago.

6/15/10 7/12/10
Lampton love 2.45 2.30
amerigas 1.85 1.79 buying on 7/27/10 bought 140gallons
neil gas 2.09 2.09
ferrell gas 1.79+20.00 1.79+20.00
h& m 2.35 2.35
partridge 2.45 2.45
blossman 2.45+48.00 2.45+20.00
amerigas crystal springs 2.29 2.29

Trucks are always on the road filling tanks when the price is high. I buy in the summer when its low.
 
Bought my wood stove 2 years ago and haven't looked back since. I just had to buy 150 gallons of heating oil since I get my hot water through the boiler. But that is the first delivery in a year. Went from 1200 gallons a year to 150.

Best decision I ever made and now I can come home from work and relax if front of a roaring fire. Life is good.
 
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