Tough customers! - mixed and bad reviews of good stoves!

Hi TB,

What's Latin for "browser beware"?

I had the same experience with that site, and noticed that it's list of reviewed stoves is oddly incomplete. For example, it has the BK Princess, but not the King. Though I do follow the credo "Never refuse information."

That said, I've found that info, there or otherwise, should always be taken with a grain of salt (whatever that means).

"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- Mark Twain

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The key is remembering that information is always collected in specific circumstances, and ignoring or leaving out those circumstances can make the information misleading. In terms of online reviews, I try to remember that we only see the reviews that people are motivated to post, and those motivated to post are often pi$$ed off or promoting something, out of proportion to the overall experience. So I am skeptical of both glowing and devastating reviews, for they are often tainted by other factors like advertising, incompetence, anger at the dealer, etc. But with that in mind, I find reviews very helpful.

I would say one bad comment out of the rest that gave it accolades would have me pretty much ignore what that one poster said.
His wife or dog must of left him that day.
http://www.wiseheat.com/wood-stoves/Blaze_King_Princess_Ultra_PEJ1006

It does not matter what the item.... you can not please everyone! Also, I have seen people dis an item for something the retailer did. And, there are people who are not happy at all no matter what!

Remember the old saying about bad news traveling the fastest? On those type of sites, people who have a problem are more apt to post than those who are satisfied. Mainly, I think, because those who are satisfied tend to forget it and just keep on without posting for others benefit. I get razed a lot because I have promoted the Woodstock stoves but we have just had such a great experience with the stove and the way the company is run that we don't hesitate to tell others about it because we feel we can help some folks that way. Helping the company is not all that bad either because we believe when a company does some of the things this company does, we'd like to keep them around for a while. btw, a lot of folks forget that at first I was not happy with Woodstock! Yes, it is true. But it turned out well in the end. It appeared it was just some mis-communications between me and one of their people. Fortunately they did not give up on me and someone else from the company called me. It all worked out well in the end.

The good thing about the growth of the internet is that one can sample a much broader array of opinions than ever before. This site is a wonderful example. In the old days, all you had were neighbors and relatives who had very limited experience with any particular product and had no information about alternatives. Call it the "Used Chevy Blazer principle" - your neighbor (or brother-in-law) says "Used Blazers are great. I never have trouble with mine.", so you purchase a used Blazer, not knowing that Edmund's or Consumers' Reports, with thousands of observations, tell a different story.

Maybe technical issues?. This site has hidden the ratings submitted from Vermont Castings owners of their stoves. Using the drop-down manufacturer's list, VC is there as "vermont castings" and shows only one rating, a 2462. Yet the
VC stoves' ratings show up if you select the page that displays ALL manufacturers. The drop-down stove makers' list might again
display VC reviews if the list showed "Vermont Castings". A technical glitch.

Backwoods Savage said:

Remember the old saying about bad news traveling the fastest? On those type of sites, people who have a problem are more apt to post than those who are satisfied. Mainly, I think, because those who are satisfied tend to forget it and just keep on without posting for others benefit. I get razed a lot because I have promoted the Woodstock stoves but we have just had such a great experience with the stove and the way the company is run that we don't hesitate to tell others about it because we feel we can help some folks that way. Helping the company is not all that bad either because we believe when a company does some of the things this company does, we'd like to keep them around for a while. btw, a lot of folks forget that at first I was not happy with Woodstock! Yes, it is true. But it turned out well in the end. It appeared it was just some mis-communications between me and one of their people. Fortunately they did not give up on me and someone else from the company called me. It all worked out well in the end.

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Amen! Folks like you, with a willingness to share positive information, benefit everyone. Good going!

Most internet sites like "epinions" you only see people with complaints. On hearth.com, generally everyone loves and recommends their stove.

Sen. John Blutarsky said:

Most internet sites like "epinions" you only see people with complaints. On hearth.com, generally everyone loves and recommends their stove.

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I don't. I recommend you get your own darn stove and leave mine alone.

(this post is to illustrate there are always crack pots on the interweb too)

:cheese:

BeGreen said:

RenovationGeorge said:

Hi TB,
What's Latin for "browser beware"?

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caveat lector - let the reader beware

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As in "Hanibel Lector" ???????????????

There are so many factors that come into play when operating / buying a stove I can see why reviews are so mixed. To many to list.

I think one thing people should consider first is the height of chimney and drafting issues and fit there stove around that. Buying a stove because it is pretty is kind of foolish.

I realized when buying my Jotul that the my dealer just wanted to make a sale. Never asked about chimney, a mention about dryer wood and such.

I think folks do more research buying a 2 thousand dollar TV than the do a wood appliance that might just burn thier house down.

Backwoods Savage said:

Remember the old saying about bad news traveling the fastest? On those type of sites, people who have a problem are more apt to post than those who are satisfied. Mainly, I think, because those who are satisfied tend to forget it and just keep on without posting for others benefit. I get razed a lot because I have promoted the Woodstock stoves but we have just had such a great experience with the stove and the way the company is run that we don't hesitate to tell others about it because we feel we can help some folks that way. Helping the company is not all that bad either because we believe when a company does some of the things this company does, we'd like to keep them around for a while. btw, a lot of folks forget that at first I was not happy with Woodstock! Yes, it is true. But it turned out well in the end. It appeared it was just some mis-communications between me and one of their people. Fortunately they did not give up on me and someone else from the company called me. It all worked out well in the end.

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Dennis I'll never razz you for promoting the Woodstock stoves . . . now I may razz you for your splitting methodology though.

I'm a big fan of researching . . . and so when it came time to research stoves I poured over the ratings here, the forums here, other websites, spoke with dealers, etc. Then again, I also do this every time I purchase a vehicle . . . did it with my last TV purchase . . . I'm doing it now as I weigh various wi-fi set-ups for my home . . . heck, I even did it once when I was getting ready to buy a $30 toaster oven. My wife claims that I enjoy doing the research more than I enjoy buying and using the product.

That said . . . as many folks have mentioned . . .

. . . folks generally will not post a review on a product that is just OK . . . rather they tend to post a review when something is really good or really bad. I try to keep this in mind.
. . . not everyone will like every product . . . I generally look at the trends . . . do more people like this product vs. more people hate this product.
. . . many folks may rate a product badly . . . and then you read the review and find that they're really critiquing the store, dealership, etc. rather than the product.
. . . many folks who rate a product badly is due to the fact that they did not do the research (i.e. they purchased an under-sized stove because it looked nice for example.)
. . . many folks buy a product, rate it badly . . . and then when you read between the lines you see that it is an operator error . . . i.e. they are upset since the stove doesn't put out any heat even though there are flames . . . of course the reason for no heat is because they are not running the stove right

Sorry to be late to this conversation but I am looking to upgrade my current US Stove (1869 Potbelly) and am considering the Vermont Casting Intrepid II. Is this a reputable company and stove? I heard they were but then dug around a bit online and it seems they've had some management shifts and they're no longer made by the same company--any truth to this? Are they still good stoves?

I'd stay away from the intrepid 2... if you want a little stove like that, look at the Jotul Nordic or F3CB, way better design, less problematic... VC's new 2n1 system is pretty nice, however, I wouldn't hesitate to reccomend the encore to ya.

summit said:

I'd stay away from the intrepid 2... if you want a little stove like that, look at the Jotul Nordic or F3CB, way better design, less problematic... VC's new 2n1 system is pretty nice, however, I wouldn't hesitate to reccomend the encore to ya.

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Agreed. In fact, a new Encore will probably replace my Intrepid this year.

I very rarely trust "user" or "editorial" reviews. As an example, look at any of the "on target", or whatever they want to call them, reviews in camera or boating magazines. To them everything is wonderful!

People can say whatever they want on the web, whether true or not.

Remember the Youtube guy trashing his new Englander?

That was a funny youtube video.

"The new double walled stoves, hold the heat in!"


ROTFLMAO!


It's funny how some people think ignorance is bliss.

The fact that they ranked 3 Duchwests, a VC and a Vogalzang ahead of a Hearthstone, Regency, and an Osburn tells me that that site isn't worth the bandwidth it occupies.....:-/