Inspect my chimney?

48rob · Nov 19, 2010

Please help me correct any bad habits I may be starting...

I have been burning since Monday night (about 4 days).
I started with a brand new insulated flue (clean).

A few break in fires, many hot fires, and a couple nights of slow, somewhat smokey (I'm guessing, can't see the smoke at night) fires that were probably lower temperatures than they should have been.

All the wood I'm burning is 12-17%, the flue is 14' from stovetop to cap, and outside temps around 40-50 degrees.

I pulled the flue cap the second day and found carmel colored sticky stuff in the pipe, not thick, just like if you had wiped a rag with paint on it inside the flue.

Today (two days later) after trying harder to burn mostly hot fires, I checked again, here are the results;

The flue and cap are painted brown, but you can easily see the other brown stuff.

Here is another one of the drippings.

The inside of the cap, and the inside of the top of the flue.

The brown stuff is very thin, and this time not as sticky or wet.

Rob

guest5234 · Nov 19, 2010

and a couple nights of slow, somewhat smokey

Thats the problem, never burn slow smokey fires or you will end up with what you have got, I only burn small hot fires as I am paronoid about my wooden house, I am sure the old timers on here will put you right Sir.

ansehnlich1 · Nov 19, 2010

I like running my Oslo up to 650 or 700 degrees daily as measured on the stovetop thermometer. I always say "burn that puppy HOT!"

48rob · Nov 19, 2010

Thank you.

So...what I've got is bad?

I've found many pictures of "bad" creosote deposits, but none that show what it "should" look like.
Can anyone point me to a visual aid?

I'm learning as I go, trying to find the right way to load, burn, and adjust.
I probably should wait until it gets really cold, as draft and burning will probably change again.

Is any brown acceptable, should the inside of the pipe and cap stay shiny new stainless steel color?

Rob

Lighting Up · Nov 19, 2010

48rob said:
Thank you.

So...what I've got is bad?

I've found many pictures of "bad" creosote deposits, but none that show what it "should" look like.
Can anyone point me to a visual aid?

I'm learning as I go, trying to find the right way to load, burn, and adjust.
I probably should wait until it gets really cold, as draft and burning will probably change again.

Is any brown acceptable, should the inside of the pipe and cap stay shiny new stainless steel color?

Rob

I guessing your not getting that stove hot enough...what were your temps when it was a hot fire? For only 4 days to have it looking like that you have to think about what kind of wood your using, air and wet wood to make it look like that in 4 days.
md

r_d_gard · Nov 19, 2010

Creosote is the first thing that comes to mind. I have in my electronic outlook calander to clean my chimney once a month, pops up on a friday afternoon with an ugly reminder. I do it saturdays.

When I clean my chimney it is more powdery that what I see in your photos. So I'll hazard to say that you are burning to low or you have the air wide open, giving her all she's got and she's still smokey (wet wood). I had "wet wood" last year and could not get the temps above 400. This year I can't get them below 400. My other thought is: When I saw that first photo I was like "Holy Cow" what on earth is that contraption. Your wind thingy, smoke diffuser gizmo, the brown basketball sitting at the top of the flue might be slowing the passage of smoke down so much that it is not drawing air properly through your stove.

Remove and then give your stove a whirl.

Ray

48rob · Nov 19, 2010

I have been burning with the air mostly shut down, to see what kind of burn times I can get, and because the space the stove heats is so small, and it really isn't cold yet.
(Cold or not, I just had to play with the new toy!)

The wood I'm burning is testing 11-18 percent.

I'll try running with the air wide open.

The flue cap, in the pictures, looks restricted but it really has a pretty large opening.
Still, I might try some burning without it (it is a deluxe supervent cap).

Am I correct in believing the draft will naturally become stronger as the outside temps drop, which in turn will pull or suck more air into the stove which will result in a hotter burn?

So, I'm aiming for a thin layer of fuzzy black stuff, and nothing sticky?

Thanks for the comments and tips!

Rob

r_d_gard · Nov 19, 2010

Flues, not my strong point. yet here goes. Yes for the outside air temp (not overly though) and yes for the length(more so). Outside temperature will help yet the longer the flue the faster the updraft the more air that is pulled into the stove therefore the hotter the stove will run. That's one reason when you see smoke stacks in Industrial settings they are so tall. It's to get the air on the back end of the operation into the burn box faster. That said, in high altitude areas (think Colorado) the flues have to be even taller to create a faster updraft to get more air in due to the reduced air at higher altit udes.

Open up the airvalve and let that puppy run to at least clean it out. Fresh split your splits and zap it with a moisture meter to check for water content. But really give her some air to get her going. It could take a while. Once the temp is up then throttle it back.

Yes, nothing sticky

Ray

48rob · Nov 19, 2010

Ray, and all, thank you.

I re split all the pieces I was checking with the meter (learned that here!) so I'm pretty sure the wood is dry, but I'll gladly check it again, very possible a few damp ones slipped in!

I've been running with exterior temperatures (the hottest spots I can find on the outside of the stove) at 300-425 degrees.

I'll practice some more to get it a little hotter.

I've never cared much for winter and being cold, but the last week has given me hope...
The shop is staying a very nice 80 degrees, and I'm hoping for cold weather!

Rob

thewoodlands · Nov 20, 2010

Get some of this and spray it on the fire when it is burning hot, I think this works. It should change any shiny type stuff to fluffy ash.

http://saversystems.com/chimney-products/acs-anti-creo-soot

zap

Backwoods Savage · Nov 20, 2010

Rob, several things come to mind. First, what you have is not good, especially after only 4 days burning.

Naturally the first suspect is the fuel. You say you are checking with a MM, but forgetting that, please tell us more about your wood. When was it cut? When was it split? How have you stored it for further drying?

Of course your burning habits must change....fast. You stated, "I have been burning with the air mostly shut down, to see what kind of burn times I can get..." This is a huge problem! You need to forget about burn times for the present. As you also stated, the outdoor temperatures are not all that cold. With outdoor temperatures in the 40's and 50's you just do not need much heat, so, why are you loading up for long burns? At this time of the year you forget the long burn times. You simply put in a few small splits and burn them.....and let the fire die out. Sure, this means you will be starting a lot of fires, but that is the beast during spring and fall. Hot fires are necessary and the only way you will get that at this time of the year is to build small fires.....not fill the thing to see how long it will burn.

southbalto · Nov 20, 2010

48rob said:
I'm really excited!

My stove is really small (1.1 cubic foot firebox)
It isn't supposed to burn very long.
I didn't expect it to.

Yesterday I kept a decent fire going all day, then at 7:00 pm I put a 4" round and 3" split of Cherry on a decent bed of coals.
I opened the air and got them going, then closed the air and went in the house.

Came out this morning at 6:00am expecting to find a stone cold stove...

It was still warm!
Not hot mind you, just warm, 98 degrees actually.
I opened the door and shot the inside coal bed at 250 degrees.
A little stirring revealed some nice embers.
I put a little kindling on the embers and waited.
5 minutes later there were flames!

After 30 minutes of burning the stove hit 330 degrees.

Now I realize that "warm" and a few "embers" isn't the same as useable heat, but to have a stove with max burn times under the very best controlled circumstances of 6 hours or less go 11 hours with only two small pieces of wood is very encouraging!
My pieces were, combined, around 5 pounds.
The stove can hold around 45 pounds.

I either got really lucky, or someone did a good job designing the stove and just picked a low number for burn times.

Rob

I was wondering how you were getting these burn times...........

I imagine a few good and hot fires will clean up that mess. With a 1.1cuft box you should be shooting for maybe 2 hours of active flames then another 3-4 in the coaling stage.

Lighting Up · Nov 20, 2010

48rob said:
Ray, and all, thank you.

I re split all the pieces I was checking with the meter (learned that here!) so I'm pretty sure the wood is dry, but I'll gladly check it again, very possible a few damp ones slipped in!

I've been running with exterior temperatures (the hottest spots I can find on the outside of the stove) at 300-425 degrees.

I'll practice some more to get it a little hotter.

I've never cared much for winter and being cold, but the last week has given me hope...
The shop is staying a very nice 80 degrees, and I'm hoping for cold weather!

Rob

300-450 that pipe should not look like that I'm guessing it's drop lower because at 80 degrees in that shop you must be tanning yourself.

Looking at your older post when temp are not that cold outside go with split wood no rounds and go "hot" let it burn out to coals then add one small...small split open the air get it cooking again so on. Keep in mind it takes more work this time of year. When it's colder out side than you can load it up and go inside just not right now.

If it was mine after a week or two of burning hot I would clean it out for piece of mind.

Hope this helps...you will figure it out not a lot of guys would of check the chimney out to see how it looks...good thought.
md

48rob · Nov 20, 2010

Naturally the first suspect is the fuel. You say you are checking with a MM, but forgetting that, please tell us more about your wood. When was it cut? When was it split? How have you stored it for further drying?

Of course your burning habits must change….fast. You stated, “I have been burning with the air mostly shut down, to see what kind of burn times I can get…” This is a huge problem! You need to forget about burn times for the present. As you also stated, the outdoor temperatures are not all that cold. With outdoor temperatures in the 40’s and 50’s you just do not need much heat, so, why are you loading up for long burns? At this time of the year you forget the long burn times. You simply put in a few small splits and burn them…..and let the fire die out. Sure, this means you will be starting a lot of fires, but that is the beast during spring and fall. Hot fires are necessary and the only way you will get that at this time of the year is to build small fires…..not fill the thing to see how long it will burn.

I was wondering how you were getting these burn times…........

300-450 that pipe should not look like that I’m guessing it’s drop lower because at 80 degrees in that shop you must be tanning yourself.

Looking at your older post when temp are not that cold outside go with split wood no rounds and go “hot” let it burn out to coals then add one small…small split open the air get it cooking again so on. Keep in mind it takes more work this time of year. When it’s colder out side than you can load it up and go inside just not right now.

Okay, I'm guilty...

It was just too hard to resist experimenting after finally getting a woodstove after 30 years of waiting.
That said, the advice given will now be followed, as I don't want to burn down my shop because of bad burning practices.

My wood is Willow And Cherry.
The Willow cut split and stacked last winter (11 months).
The Cherry was cut and stacked (small rounds) last winter to early spring.
Willow is at 12-16% average.
Cherry was 16-20%, but since I didn't re split every round I was burning, some could have been higher.

The shop was pretty warm, and turning down the air to lower the temps probably contributed, along with a couple nights of "smoldering" fires to test length of burn.

Okay, now that I can actually see the result of my actions, I'm going to present some new info/facts and try this again.

Here is the wood I'll be using for the next week.
It is freshly split very dry (standing dead Ash) in splits of about 2"
(much smaller than the 6"+ splits I have been using...)
I put two splits in a cold stove on a bed of Hickory bark as kindling.
All tests will be with 2-4 splits this size.

Here are two of said splits after about 15-20 minutes with the air wide open (also cracked the door an inch or so to get it going faster, but door is closed in the picture.

Here is the temp on the hottest part of the stove after 1/2 hour, the temp actually reached 440 degrees a few minutes later, right before the flames died and only coals were left.

And this is the flue, picture taken right after taking the "roaring fire" picture.
There is no visible smoke coming out.

This will be my plan; "go with split wood no rounds and go “hot” let it burn out to coals then add one small…small split open the air get it cooking again so on."

I'll report back in a few days.

Thanks for the help!

Rob

guest5234 · Nov 20, 2010

48rob said:
Naturally the first suspect is the fuel. You say you are checking with a MM, but forgetting that, please tell us more about your wood. When was it cut? When was it split? How have you stored it for further drying?

Of course your burning habits must change….fast. You stated, “I have been burning with the air mostly shut down, to see what kind of burn times I can get…” This is a huge problem! You need to forget about burn times for the present. As you also stated, the outdoor temperatures are not all that cold. With outdoor temperatures in the 40’s and 50’s you just do not need much heat, so, why are you loading up for long burns? At this time of the year you forget the long burn times. You simply put in a few small splits and burn them…..and let the fire die out. Sure, this means you will be starting a lot of fires, but that is the beast during spring and fall. Hot fires are necessary and the only way you will get that at this time of the year is to build small fires…..not fill the thing to see how long it will burn.

Click to expand...

I was wondering how you were getting these burn times…........

Click to expand...

300-450 that pipe should not look like that I’m guessing it’s drop lower because at 80 degrees in that shop you must be tanning yourself.

Looking at your older post when temp are not that cold outside go with split wood no rounds and go “hot” let it burn out to coals then add one small…small split open the air get it cooking again so on. Keep in mind it takes more work this time of year. When it’s colder out side than you can load it up and go inside just not right now.

Click to expand...

Okay, I'm guilty...

It was just too hard to resist experimenting after finally getting a woodstove after 30 years of waiting.
That said, the advice given will now be followed, as I don't want to burn down my shop because of bad burning practices.

My wood is Willow And Cherry.
The Willow cut split and stacked last winter (11 months).
The Cherry was cut and stacked (small rounds) last winter to early spring.
Willow is at 12-16% average.
Cherry was 16-20%, but since I didn't re split every round I was burning, some could have been higher.

The shop was pretty warm, and turning down the air to lower the temps probably contributed, along with a couple nights of "smoldering" fires to test length of burn.

Okay, now that I can actually see the result of my actions, I'm going to present some new info/facts and try this again.

Here is the wood I'll be using for the next week.
It is freshly split very dry (standing dead Ash) in splits of about 2"
(much smaller than the 6"+ splits I have been using...)
I put two splits in a cold stove on a bed of Hickory bark as kindling.
All tests will be with 2-4 splits this size.

Here are two of said splits after about 15-20 minutes with the air wide open (also cracked the door an inch or so to get it going faster, but door is closed in the picture.

Here is the temp on the hottest part of the stove after 1/2 hour, the temp actually reached 440 degrees a few minutes later, right before the flames died and only coals were left.

And this is the flue, picture taken right after taking the "roaring fire" picture.
There is no visible smoke coming out.

This will be my plan; "go with split wood no rounds and go “hot” let it burn out to coals then add one small…small split open the air get it cooking again so on."

I'll report back in a few days.

Thanks for the help!

Rob

You are doing everything right and you aint going to burn your shop down as you are on here asking the experts, te creosote aint that bad and if you go on the ay you are in your photos you will have no problems.

firefighterjake · Nov 22, 2010

48rob said:
I have been burning with the air mostly shut down, to see what kind of burn times I can get, and because the space the stove heats is so small, and it really isn't cold yet.
(Cold or not, I just had to play with the new toy!) No problem experimenting . . . however, you may find that you cannot shut the air all the way down . . . a lot depends on the wood and the draft. Rather than trying to go for the super long burns, try going for the clean burn.

The wood I'm burning is testing 11-18 percent. This is good.

I'll try running with the air wide open. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of having a secondary burner. Instead, work on getting the stove and flue up to temp . . . and then start shutting down the air . . . right to the point where you have a sustained secondary -- you will be able to tell if this is at a good point because the glass will not blacken up and there should be no smoke visible from the chimney.

The flue cap, in the pictures, looks restricted but it really has a pretty large opening.
Still, I might try some burning without it (it is a deluxe supervent cap). I'd keep the cap . . . as long as you're totally gunking things up a cap can be a good thing . . . to keep out critters and the elements.

Am I correct in believing the draft will naturally become stronger as the outside temps drop, which in turn will pull or suck more air into the stove which will result in a hotter burn? Yes . . . the only time I have any issues with my draft is when the temps outside are warmer or close to the same temps inside the house. Generally, cooler outside air and warmer air inside will result in a better draft.So, I'm aiming for a thin layer of fuzzy black stuff, and nothing sticky?

Thanks for the comments and tips!

Rob

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