Second question on noodling

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dave11

Minister of Fire
May 25, 2008
633
Western PA
Have been noodling these big wet pin oak rounds, some are 3 feet or more across. With a sharp chain, i'm getting noodles that look to be the same size as in the online vids (see pic), but it's taking a long time, as in 3-4 minutes to make a cut of 2-3 feet in length. And I'm lucky to get through 3 separate cuts before I need to stop and sharpen the chain.

The saw never seems to bog down. It's a Husky 450 which is 50 cc and has the stock Husky semi-chisel chain. Previously when I've sharpened the chain for crosscutting, I've gotten good results, and I'm sharpening the same way now.

With the larger rounds though, with the saw buried up to the bumper spikes, the nose of the 20 inch bar is barely showing outside the round.

Is the slow cutting likely due to some deficiency of the chain, or due to the 20 inch bar being too short, or due to the need for more horsepower?

The 20 inch bar is the longest this saw will take.
 

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Dude Your looking Good and a 50cc saw I would idle for a min after each cut and let your saw cool.....Fantastic Job for a 50cc saw!
 
a 20" bar on that saw is pushing it to begin with, especially when fully engulfed! More HP is a good start, but an expensive one at that

My 365 is supposed to be able to handle a 24" but I don't think it has near enough power to use it regularly.
 
But in all the vids I've seen, the guys are flying though their cuts, like in 20 seconds. Its true that their rounds aren't as big as mine, but it seems like there shouldn't be that big a difference. And I don't really feel the saw self-feed down into the wood like it does when I crosscut.
 
dave11 said:
But in all the vids I've seen, the guys are flying though their cuts, like in 20 seconds. Its true that their rounds aren't as big as mine, but it seems like there shouldn't be that big a difference. And I don't really feel the saw self-feed down into the wood like it does when I crosscut.
Click to expand...

There saws are probally 70 cc + Your noodles look good...Just let it cool down between rounds!
 
But if HP were the problem, wouldn't I notice the engine slow or labor with the cuts? It never seems to lose RPMs as best I can tell. In fact, sometimes it seems to race, like when the chain is dull, and it stops cutting. If I rock it up and down like in crosscutting, then it starts cutting again, making me think the noddles are not clearing the cut.

It makes me wonder if this chain doesn't clear the noddles very well.
 
Do you file down the rakers at all when you file the chain?
 
WoodPorn said:
Do you file down the rakers at all when you file the chain?
Click to expand...

I have been filing the rakers. In fact, I filed them down more than I really should have based on the gauge, hoping it would make these cuts go faster. But it didn't seem to make a difference.
 
dave11 said:
But if HP were the problem, wouldn't I notice the engine slow or labor with the cuts? It never seems to lose RPMs as best I can tell. In fact, sometimes it seems to race, like when the chain is dull, and it stops cutting. If I rock it up and down like in crosscutting, then it starts cutting again, making me think the noddles are not clearing the cut.

It makes me wonder if this chain doesn't clear the noddles very well.
Click to expand...

No saw really clears noodles well was not made to cut like that...Its hard on a saw and chain but no more than you have looks to be doing quite well. Many things you can do to clear the noodles easier. With a 50cc saw your very best bet is just take Your Time.
 
Did you try just cutting an inch or two then splitting.
? I did this with an Elm and it did the trick. No need to waste the saw and the chain if you can split it after a little help. You may be surprised how easily it will split once you get an inch or two down.
 
dave11 said:
Have been noodling these big wet pin oak rounds, some are 3 feet or more across. With a sharp chain, i'm getting noodles that look to be the same size as in the online vids (see pic), but it's taking a long time, as in 3-4 minutes to make a cut of 2-3 feet in length. And I'm lucky to get through 3 separate cuts before I need to stop and sharpen the chain.

The saw never seems to bog down. It's a Husky 450 which is 50 cc and has the stock Husky semi-chisel chain. Previously when I've sharpened the chain for crosscutting, I've gotten good results, and I'm sharpening the same way now.

With the larger rounds though, with the saw buried up to the bumper spikes, the nose of the 20 inch bar is barely showing outside the round.

Is the slow cutting likely due to some deficiency of the chain, or due to the 20 inch bar being too short, or due to the need for more horsepower?

The 20 inch bar is the longest this saw will take.
Click to expand...

Cut round partway through, then SPLIT it.

Why torture engine, bar, chain, operator?

There are many subtle things that can reduce cutting efficiency of the chain.
 
smokinjay said:
dave11 said:
But if HP were the problem, wouldn't I notice the engine slow or labor with the cuts? It never seems to lose RPMs as best I can tell. In fact, sometimes it seems to race, like when the chain is dull, and it stops cutting. If I rock it up and down like in crosscutting, then it starts cutting again, making me think the noddles are not clearing the cut.

It makes me wonder if this chain doesn't clear the noddles very well.
Click to expand...

No saw really clears noodles well was not made to cut like that...Its hard on a saw and chain but no more than you have looks to be doing quite well. Many things you can do to clear the noodles easier. With a 50cc saw your very best bet is just take Your Time.
Click to expand...



Agreed! The classes I have had on chain saws all say that cutting vertically(lack of a better term) is very hard on a saw.

Personally, I would cut them horizontally to about 10" thick rounds and ten split them by hand or rent a splitter if there are a lot of them.

It isn't worth ruining your saw.

Just my .02 cents
 
Thanks for all the input. I'll just suck it up and take my time going slow.

It's no-go to try splitting these rounds by hand, not at least until I've noodled them through at least 80% of the width. The wedges just sink in and spit water, then pop out and up in the air. The mauls just bounce off them. And when I can split off a small piece, its still stranded and stuck to the main piece, and has to be torn off.
 
dave11 said:
Thanks for all the input. I'll just suck it up and take my time going slow.

It's no-go to try splitting these rounds by hand, not at least until I've noodled them through at least 80% of the width. The wedges just sink in and spit water, then pop out and up in the air. The mauls just bounce off them. And when I can split off a small piece, its still stranded and stuck to the main piece, and has to be torn off.
Click to expand...

I should put you on my 880 milling pin oak very slow going! (noodling about the same thing)




This is Hickory but gives you an Idea that even 122cc's isnt very quick in the hardwoods!
 
There are a lot of factors that may be in play, and it's likely that more than one of them applies to your case.

More hp.
Lower rakers.
Modded saws.
Softer wood (pine, poplar, etc.)
Full chisel chain vs. semi-chisel.

There can be a BIG speed difference between .325 pitch semi-chisel safety chain and .375 (3/8) pitch full-chisel chain.

Burying a 20" bar on any 50cc saw should bog the saw at least a little bit.

NO, noodling (if done properly) isn't harder on a saw engine or chain than bucking (cross-cutting). You just have to be careful about clogging under the clutch cover and long duration cuts.
 
TreePointer said:
There are a lot of factors that may be in play, and it's likely that more than one of them applies to your case.

More hp.
Lower rakers.
Modded saws.
Softer wood (pine, poplar, etc.)
Full chisel chain vs. semi-chisel.

There can be a BIG speed difference between .325 pitch semi-chisel safety chain and .375 (3/8) pitch full-chisel chain.

Burying a 20" bar on any 50cc saw should bog the saw at least a little bit.

NO, noodling (if done properly) isn't harder on a saw engine or chain than bucking (cross-cutting). You just have to be careful about clogging under the clutch cover and long duration cuts.
Click to expand...

The saw never bogs down when I'm noodling these rounds, even when mostly buried. But I think that's because it's cutting fairly slow. The motor does slow a bit, no worse than when I crosscut a large round, so I don't think the horsepower is the issue, at least with the current chain. I've already filed the rakers down as far as I dare, if I'm ever gonna use the chain again for crosscutting, but it didn't make much of a difference.

The full chisel chain was an idea I thought to try, though I wondered if then I'd have to sharpen the chain even more than I am now, which is after every 3-4 cuts. I had a full-chisel chain new on the shelf, but when I opened it I found the saw shop had given me the wrong gauge, and wouldn't take it back (that's the topic of a separate post here on Hearth.com). I was too ticked off then to buy a full-chisel chain of the correct gauge..

And this oak is tough, wet, and stringy, and maybe that is also why the cutting is slow.
 
smokinjay said:
dave11 said:
Thanks for all the input. I'll just suck it up and take my time going slow.

It's no-go to try splitting these rounds by hand, not at least until I've noodled them through at least 80% of the width. The wedges just sink in and spit water, then pop out and up in the air. The mauls just bounce off them. And when I can split off a small piece, its still stranded and stuck to the main piece, and has to be torn off.
Click to expand...

I should put you on my 880 milling pin oak very slow going! (noodling about the same thing).
This is Hickory but gives you an Idea that even 122cc's isnt very quick in the hardwoods!
Click to expand...

Jay--those boards you're cutting look sweet. Are you a woodworker.? What are you doing with those planks after you cut them? I'd love to be able to cut my own boards for cabinetry.
 
dave11 said:
smokinjay said:
dave11 said:
Thanks for all the input. I'll just suck it up and take my time going slow.

It's no-go to try splitting these rounds by hand, not at least until I've noodled them through at least 80% of the width. The wedges just sink in and spit water, then pop out and up in the air. The mauls just bounce off them. And when I can split off a small piece, its still stranded and stuck to the main piece, and has to be torn off.
Click to expand...

I should put you on my 880 milling pin oak very slow going! (noodling about the same thing).
This is Hickory but gives you an Idea that even 122cc's isnt very quick in the hardwoods!
Click to expand...

Jay--those boards you're cutting look sweet. Are you a woodworker.? What are you doing with those planks after you cut them? I'd love to be able to cut my own boards for cabinetry.
Click to expand...

My Dad has been a woodworker all his life me just on chainsaw mostly. That hickory is being used on the under side of my table.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/63256/
 
Dave11, I just finished noodling a good part of a 32"+ bur oak with a 55cc Husqvarna running an 18" bar, full chisel. I experienced the same slow cutting, frequent chain dulling that you report. I think it is just the nature of that kind of sawing.
 
Haven't seen this suggested - noodling at 45 degree angle works better than whole length. Clutch cover doesn't get clogged
as quickly and short bar might not be buried. May have to flip over the log to finish from the other end. Works OK.
 

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Gark said:
Haven't seen this suggested - noodling at 45 degree angle works better than whole length. Clutch cover doesn't get clogged
as quickly and short bar might not be buried. May have to flip over the log to finish from the other end. Works OK.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting approach. Do you actually get noodles that way though? Some of the online demos show how you need to cut very parallel to the bark, and toward the heartwood, to get noodles. I found that's mostly true with the noodling I've done, but not 100%. Not sure it matters though, as long as it cuts.

I can't do the 45 degree approach here though, because the rounds are way too big and heavy for me to get into that position.
 
Socratic Monologue said:
Dave11, I just finished noodling a good part of a 32"+ bur oak with a 55cc Husqvarna running an 18" bar, full chisel. I experienced the same slow cutting, frequent chain dulling that you report. I think it is just the nature of that kind of sawing.
Click to expand...

Actually, I was thinking of trying a full chisel to try to speed up the cutting. Sounds like that didn't work for you though.
 
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