Just had my first ugly downdraft with smoke POURING into the room

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J

joefrompa

Minister of Fire
Sep 7, 2010
810
SE PA
Hi all,

Set up my fire about 30 minutes ago and piled about 6 crumpled newspaper then put some kindling pieces on top to good pile. Then put 2-3 pieces placed around the top. Damper bypass was open (straight up shot through the chimney), air intake wide open, door cracked.

Lit newspapers in 4 different locations....smoke starts pouring out the door longer than I found acceptable so I closed the door.

Smoke started POURING out through the front intake into the room. Closed the intake but it was still coming, albeit slower.

I guess this is what we call a "no air going up chimney" situation :)

Finally opened some windows and lit a piece of newspaper directly below the chimney uptake, and after about 5 seconds I could see the draft forming and we were good to go.

38 degrees outside, 13' insulated liner up an exterior chimney, now roaring away at over 400 degrees and rising...

Joe
 
Cold chimneys and windy weather can do that. I used to have to light two fires to get a good start on a setup I used to have. The first one was a load of crumpled newspaper to charge the flue. After that burnt down I could build a regular fire.

Matt
 
joefrompa said:
Hi all,

Set up my fire about 30 minutes ago and piled about 6 crumpled newspaper then put some kindling pieces on top to good pile. Then put 2-3 pieces placed around the top. Damper bypass was open (straight up shot through the chimney), air intake wide open, door cracked.

Lit newspapers in 4 different locations....smoke starts pouring out the door longer than I found acceptable so I closed the door.

Smoke started POURING out through the front intake into the room. Closed the intake but it was still coming, albeit slower.

I guess this is what we call a "no air going up chimney" situation :)

Finally opened some windows and lit a piece of newspaper directly below the chimney uptake, and after about 5 seconds I could see the draft forming and we were good to go.

38 degrees outside, 13' insulated liner up an exterior chimney, now roaring away at over 400 degrees and rising...

Joe
Click to expand...

Joe I am interested in what size flue is the stove, and what size flue do you have up the chimney?
 
6" and 6"....matched size all the way to my knowledge...
 
EatenByLimestone said:
Cold chimneys and windy weather can do that. I used to have to light two fires to get a good start on a setup I used to have. The first one was a load of crumpled newspaper to charge the flue. After that burnt down I could build a regular fire.

Matt
Click to expand...

Cold - short - chimneys are a bear. If there are 2 - 90 deg turns in the smokepath, this is effectively a 9 ft flue and it's going to be balky.
 
I had it happen a couple of times with the F3 in the basement. Surprised me because it was the third year burning the thing. Thirty foot liner. Put my setup in it and lit it off. Walked out the back door and came back to smoke pouring out of every opening. Nasty.
 
It's 13' with one 15-20 degree turn within the first foot. It's almost straight up.

I am considering adding 3' on to the top in the future.
 
The extra pipe should help. This sounds like a good candidate for the top down starting procedure.
 
Hey guys,

I don't mean to high jack this thread but i noticed you said "more smoke than acceptable" - Is it normal to have a little smoke pour into the room during light up or really any time I open the door?

A couple of things I know already that it may help with some answers- The chimney has been swept very recently, and I just checked it for creosote build up within a few days, it's a six inch liner straight up accept for a small adapter immediately coming out of the top of the insert (maybe this is the issue?), no obstructions around the outside of chimney, my house is pretty drafty so I don't think it's the problem of having it too air tight inside the house (maybe it's less drafty than I think). Any input would be helpful- Sorry JoefromPA hope this isn't too intrusive on your thread.
 
DaFattKidd said:
Hey guys,

I don't mean to high jack this thread but i noticed you said "more smoke than acceptable" - Is it normal to have a little smoke pour into the room during light up or really any time I open the door? If you "open it like a refrigerator" you will probably get a puff of smoke into the room. Better to crack door 1/4 inch, count to say 5 then open slowly the rest of the way.

A couple of things I know already that it may help with some answers- The chimney has been swept very recently, and I just checked it for creosote build up within a few days, it's a six inch liner straight up accept for a small adapter immediately coming out of the top of the insert (maybe this is the issue?), no obstructions around the outside of chimney, my house is pretty drafty so I don't think it's the problem of having it too air tight inside the house (maybe it's less drafty than I think). Any input would be helpful- Sorry JoefromPA hope this isn't too intrusive on your thread.
Click to expand...
 
EatenByLimestone said:
Cold chimneys and windy weather can do that. I used to have to light two fires to get a good start on a setup I used to have. The first one was a load of crumpled newspaper to charge the flue. After that burnt down I could build a regular fire.

Matt
Click to expand...

Thats what I so when the stove is cold, This year I'm going to try a piece of super cedar for a minute then put my wood in.
 
Top down fires may work, or a modified top/bottom. I used to put a piece of paper on top after one episode, but it hasn't happened again and now I'm out of the habbit.
 
Do you have an exterior chimney? It's a common event with me on a cold start. I'm not sure if you can do this with your stove, but on a cold start, I'm in the habit of sticking my hand way to the back of the stove where the exit is and feeling if it's sucking or blowing. If it's blowing, then a bit of newspaper crumpled up in the stack usually does the trick to charge the chimney.

If I forget, and I start to get the dreaded "smoke in the room" on a cold start, the stove door goes wide open, and I open a window in the same room all the way. I'll shove the newsprint to the back of the stove and just patiently wait. The draft will eventually catch, and then you can just close the window, load more newspaper, and let the draft of the stove "clean out" all the smoke in the room while keeping the door open for a few minutes. Do be sure to stay *with* your stove with an open door, don't leave it, not even for a minute.
 
joefrompa said:
It's 13' with one 15-20 degree turn within the first foot. It's almost straight up.

I am considering adding 3' on to the top in the future.
Click to expand...

Joe, perhaps you could go to the hardware store and buy a 3' section of stove pipe; maybe even 2 of them. Put these on the top to see if it does make any difference before you buy the heavy stuff.

btw, we have an exterior chimney up the wall but do not have a problem with it.
 
Hey guys,

One thing i'll add that I think was missed: I had 5-6 crumpled newspapers underneath, but I had ~3 newspapers on top that I had lit with the lighter.

The draft only formed after those completely died and I lit a fresh piece directly under the flue.

Dennis - What would be the difference between hardware store stuff vs. "the heavy stuff"?

Joe
 
joefrompa said:
Hey guys,

One thing i'll add that I think was missed: I had 5-6 crumpled newspapers underneath, but I had ~3 newspapers on top that I had lit with the lighter.

The draft only formed after those completely died and I lit a fresh piece directly under the flue.

Dennis - What would be the difference between hardware store stuff vs. "the heavy stuff"?

Joe
Click to expand...

I think Dennis mean try raising with inexpensive single wall pipe before investing in class a to raise your height.
 
Joe, the difference is only that you might be able to save some dollars. If the extra pipe does not get you more draw than why spend the bid dollars for the insulated pipe. I've done this for a couple of folks; on one it didn't make a difference so they did not buy any extra insulated pipe and it saved them some dollars.

On the newspapers, I'd have lit both top and bottom at the same time.
 
What BeGreen described is very close to the situation I faced in my workroom. But I was thinking that because the chimney and flue was inside the building it wouldn't be "cold". Fact was, it was "cold"... because there is no water in the building there is no need to maintain any "base" temperature. I was using the experience of the Fireview vented into an interior chimney in our heated home as the bell weather. Wrong-o! In other threads I've referred to this as learning to "think about fire in a different way". And this is what is, IMO, so great about this site. I was no newbie about operating a cat. stove, but I had never had to learn about how all the variables can change an outcome in a different situation. And how you have to "isolate" each variable to arrive at the solution that works for your individual situation!

Now, I set the thermostat in my largely unheated workroom (base temp. set at 38-40 °F to keep my pressing equipment from freezing overnight) to come on at 5AM and come up to 55 °F on the days I'm going to work out there. I crack a window and fire up the Classic. I leave the window cracked until the stove has had a chance to get the kindling and first few splits burning nicely. I watch the stovetop thermometer carefully (can't see the fire on my stove) and when it's rolling along nicely I close and latch the door leaving the by-pass and the dampers open until I see the temperature begin to rise steadily. Then I close the by-pass, the and the "twisty knob" damper. I will often leave the lower door damper open longer, closing that one down when the fire is cranking and the stove top temperature is clearly on the rise. This approach has eliminated the "back puffs" and resulted in the sort of smooth, easy heat I've become accustomed to in the Woodstocks.
 
Use a small propane torch to preheat the flue, before lighting the paper. It can take 10-15 minutes depending on how non self starting the chimney is. Place the torch in the firebox with the flame pointing towards the front lip of the baffle plate. Some folks have reported using the torch to start the fire as well
 
Hey Willoweep, welcome to the forum.
 
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