What do think?

That is a Ford vs. Chevy argument and you opened the flood gates.


All pellets are different and the main issue with them is density and raw material. If your density is lost you have saw dust. If you use a bad raw material you will not get a good burn.


Eric

I agree, but they also burn faster, I was getting 23-24 hrs out of a bag of softies, and 30-32 out of hardwood, makes a huge difference when you add it all up.

Adjust your feed rate down with the sofies.

I have burned a lot of pellets in my day and I am also testing for the group. I have added length of burn to this seasons testing. I have also been checking density of the pellets.

I personally don't think the fiber species has much at all to length of burn. I think its pellet size and density of said pellet. You get a pellet that is sized the same with similar density. The burn length will be very very close. Just my 2 cents. But what do I know?

j-takeman said:

But what do I know?

Click to expand...

So much more than most of us it's a little scary.. :ahhh:

warmncozy said:

j-takeman said:

But what do I know?

Click to expand...

So much more than most of us it's a little scary.. :ahhh:

Click to expand...

X2

Want to start a debate? Ask about the resin in softwoods and if thats why they burn so much hotter!

Burned almost 5 tons of Rocky Mountains(softwood) last year and a few this year. Have burned Somersets(Hardwood) previous years and this year. Both have burned with same heat output but I need to clean my stove almost twice as often using the Rockys(lots more ash). Thats just from a personal observation.

Bantam said:

Burned almost 5 tons of Rocky Mountains(softwood) last year and a few this year. Have burned Somersets(Hardwood) previous years and this year. Both have burned with same heat output but I need to clean my stove almost twice as often using the Rockys(lots more ash). Thats just from a personal observation.

Click to expand...

RockyMountain is using whole logs to make there pellet. One problem was there were not getting all the bark off the log before chipping it. I notice the brown specs in the pellets. Somersets are from a flooring company with a great fiber source. So there are explanation's if you want to here them.

I still stand on the quality of the fiber(like Eric says). We have a pellet mill in Vermont that is using whole logs to make there softwood pellets. But there getting all the bark off and they will burn just as clean if not cleaner than the Somersets. Jsut saying!

The fir pellets I've been using last year and this season have far less ash than any other pellet I have used... hardwood or soft. But I do find most hardwoods have more ash than the softwoods. i like to run my stove for two weeks or so between cleanings so I buy the Doug Fir... plus they are about 8700 btu's which is pretty hot.

krooser said:

The fir pellets I've been using last year and this season have far less ash than any other pellet I have used... hardwood or soft. But I do find most hardwoods have more ash than the softwoods. i like to run my stove for two weeks or so between cleanings so I buy the Doug Fir... plus they are about 8700 btu's which is pretty hot.

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Keep Rubbing that Douglas Fir in our East Coast Face...... :shut:

samm6 said:

krooser said:

The fir pellets I've been using last year and this season have far less ash than any other pellet I have used... hardwood or soft. But I do find most hardwoods have more ash than the softwoods. i like to run my stove for two weeks or so between cleanings so I buy the Doug Fir... plus they are about 8700 btu's which is pretty hot.

Click to expand...

Keep Rubbing that Douglas Fir in our East Coast Face...... :shut:

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We can get them here, But there going to be more expensive. Most will cheap out and say there to expensive because they can get there shoulder pellets from the bigbox for less. Where they could use these is in the extreme weather where its a plus to have the cleanest pellet possible in the stove. Less shutdowns between cleanings and overall less work.

So go a head krooser rub it in as much as possible. Maybe a few will catch on!

j-takeman said:

samm6 said:

krooser said:

The fir pellets I've been using last year and this season have far less ash than any other pellet I have used... hardwood or soft. But I do find most hardwoods have more ash than the softwoods. i like to run my stove for two weeks or so between cleanings so I buy the Doug Fir... plus they are about 8700 btu's which is pretty hot.

Click to expand...

Keep Rubbing that Douglas Fir in our East Coast Face...... :shut:

Click to expand...

We can get them here, But there going to be more expensive. Most will cheap out and say there to expensive because they can get there shoulder pellets from the bigbox for less. Where they could use these is in the extreme weather where its a plus to have the cleanest pellet possible in the stove. Less shutdowns between cleanings and overall less work.

So go a head krooser rub it in as much as possible. Maybe a few will catch on!

Click to expand...

Hey that is why I have my CUBEX and a huge ash pan ;-).

There is a $20/ton difference right now between what BTU is pushing and the CUBEX and it isn't in BTU's favor.

For me it's not so much about price as it is about choice. Yeah, the Doug-Fir are more expensive, but as a consumer, having that option readily available is invaluable. It forces sub par pellet manufacturers to become more competitive by raising the bar with their quality standards.

Premium wood pellets entering the market are a perfect example. Over the past 4-5 years how many mediocre hardwood/softwood pellet manufacturers were forced to "retool" their pellets to better compete with the low ash / high BTU rating of the premium wood pellet players? Who gains the most from this excercise. The end user....the consumer. We get a better product with a competitive price. Let's face it, if consumers only cared about price, we'd be stuck with nothing but low quality inferior products that are cheap to produce. That's why I say.... "Bring on the Douglas Firs".

SmokeyTheBear said:

j-takeman said:

samm6 said:

krooser said:

The fir pellets I've been using last year and this season have far less ash than any other pellet I have used... hardwood or soft. But I do find most hardwoods have more ash than the softwoods. i like to run my stove for two weeks or so between cleanings so I buy the Doug Fir... plus they are about 8700 btu's which is pretty hot.

Click to expand...

Keep Rubbing that Douglas Fir in our East Coast Face...... :shut:

Click to expand...

We can get them here, But there going to be more expensive. Most will cheap out and say there to expensive because they can get there shoulder pellets from the bigbox for less. Where they could use these is in the extreme weather where its a plus to have the cleanest pellet possible in the stove. Less shutdowns between cleanings and overall less work.

So go a head krooser rub it in as much as possible. Maybe a few will catch on!

Click to expand...

Hey that is why I have my CUBEX and a huge ash pan ;-).

There is a $20/ton difference right now between what BTU is pushing and the CUBEX and it isn't in BTU's favor.

Click to expand...

Bear, I must confess. I have Cubex for the cold this season. Probably the cleanest hardwood I tested last season and the heat is way up there. Price was the kicker for me too!. At the time of purchase I saved $25/ton. If I still had my old quad doing the heating chores I might have gone with the more expensive pellet. At least for the cold season anyway. The new beast can handle the heating task with ease and has the extra horses needed.

Cleanest hardwood tested this season is the PWI. Another fine Canadian pellet available in New England. Heat was a tad lower but not bad!

Glosta said:

For me it's not so much about price as it is about choice. Yeah, the Doug-Fir are more expensive, but as a consumer, having that option readily available is invaluable. It forces sub par pellet manufacturers to become more competitive by raising the bar with their quality standards.

Premium wood pellets entering the market are a perfect example. Over the past 4-5 years how many mediocre hardwood/softwood pellet manufacturers were forced to "retool" their pellets to better compete with the low ash / high BTU rating of the premium wood pellet players? Who gains the most from this excercise. The end user....the consumer. We get a better product with a competitive price. Let's face it, if consumers only cared about price, we'd be stuck with nothing but low quality inferior products that are cheap to produce. That's why I say.... "Bring on the Douglas Firs".

Click to expand...

I completely agree

Competetive competiton is best for all involved. and if they can't compete then they will eventually Go Away...

I have a pre AE Quadrafire MT Vernon. I have been burning Somersets this season that I picked up at Menards. I believe they are hard wood. I put a bag in before bed, set the stove on low, its nearly gone 8 hours later. I picked up a few bags of Greenway from Big R. I believe these, also, are hardwood. I put a bag in before bed, set the stove on low, 16 hours later the stove polished off the same bag. This doesn't relate to your question about softwood. I am just trying to demonstrate the difference between pellets in general. There is no consistency in the 3 brands I have burned which are all hardwoods. Somersets, OHP's (last uear) and Greenway. I'm not even sure that manufactures' have much control over quality load to load. Just seems like a crapshoot to me. It's better then paying the propane man by a long shot. On a side note: I really got a kick out his letter he sent warning me of the $500 fee's for emergency tank fills this winter and so on and so on. These guys are really resorting to extortion.

samm6 said:

Glosta said:

For me it's not so much about price as it is about choice. Yeah, the Doug-Fir are more expensive, but as a consumer, having that option readily available is invaluable. It forces sub par pellet manufacturers to become more competitive by raising the bar with their quality standards.

Premium wood pellets entering the market are a perfect example. Over the past 4-5 years how many mediocre hardwood/softwood pellet manufacturers were forced to "retool" their pellets to better compete with the low ash / high BTU rating of the premium wood pellet players? Who gains the most from this excercise. The end user....the consumer. We get a better product with a competitive price. Let's face it, if consumers only cared about price, we'd be stuck with nothing but low quality inferior products that are cheap to produce. That's why I say.... "Bring on the Douglas Firs".

Click to expand...

I completely agree

Competetive competiton is best for all involved. and if they can't compete then they will eventually Go Away...

Click to expand...

But to be competitive the price has to be in the ball park also, otherwise there is no contest.

Which is why I pointed out the difference between CUBEX and Oakies, I have access to both and have burned both, the edge goes to CUBEX and when BTU mentioned the Douglass Fir pellets at $295/ton I asked is the difference in ash content worth the difference in price? We can leave the BTU content out of the equation for now.

Another thing to riddle me and others is is the difference in quality between say Granules LG and MWP worth the current difference in price which for me is $69/ton we won't even consider that the BTU difference here either. I have burned LGs and two of the older MWP production runs.

SmokeyTheBear said:

[But to be competitive the price has to be in the ball part also, otherwise there is no contest.

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I think that statement is relative to the consumer. Some people prefer chopped steak...others prefer Filet Mignon. Yes, the majority of consumers will probably settle for something in between, but having all those options available makes the decession making process more rewarding.

Glosta said:

SmokeyTheBear said:

[But to be competitive the price has to be in the ball part also, otherwise there is no contest.

Click to expand...

I think that statement is relative to the consumer. Some people prefer chopped steak...others prefer Filet Mignon. Yes, the majority of consumers will probably settle for something in between, but having all those options available makes the decession making process more rewarding.

Click to expand...

Ah but you see the consumer is going to eventually pay for a relatively minor if any actual difference, start factoring in the BTU values and you see even more of a $ spread and it isn't always in the favor of the more expensive pellet.

The difference in price has to provide a benefit to the consumer or the product really isn't competitive just expensive.

wait a second here....let me get this straight...are you telling me that all pellets aren't the same? But they all come in a bag, dont they? theyre all made from trees and plastic and pieces of rope with some ground up pieces of metal aren't they? Oh you guys.

I'm hung up a bit on the whole ash content in the hard vs soft debate. I tend to notice that the softies have a much fluffier, less course type of ash that tends to fly away in the exhaust, where the hardies are gritty-ish and grainy. Best pellet I've seen to date was 5 years ago...brand called Great Slave Lake, a product of Canada, 100% Doug Fir ( i swear the stove was cleaner after burning a ton than before) , havent seen it since. Been doing the Cubex for a while and its a very consistent product and that fact alone speaks volumes.

I'm with J on the density and cleanliness of the fiber as the 2 most probable influences on pellet quality (assuming the production concepts are equal). If we assume everyone is using the same quality materials, and the same process....the guy who makes the fewest mistakes ends up with the best product....and there are plenty of mistakes to be made.

If you go to the test thread and check the Country Pine results on the chart.

test thread

The density was close to the SIH along with the pellet size. You will see they both lasted about 25 plus hours.

Just saying. Me thinx the size density theory might just hold water! ;-P