What would be better, 6" insulated pipe or 8" insulated pipe?

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Dec 26, 2009
29
West Tennessee
I am helping a friend choose and install a new Vermont Castings Encore non-cat in his home. We are in west TN at about 300 feet above sea level. I have about 15 years experience burning wood, for 14 years with an old smoke dragon stove, and the last season with a VC Defiant non-cat. My Defiant has an 8 inch uninsulated pipe that goes up to the 10' ceiling where it feeds into an 8 inch insulated pipe for another 10 feet. Our stove functions very well. I have observed that it will draw like crazy when it is really cold (10-20 degrees) and it will get a little lazy at 50 or 60 degrees. It really seems to self adjust its draw to the outside temperature. I do not have an outside air intake.

The VC encore comes standard with an 8" collar, but you can order it with a 6" collar. It is supposed to produce 50,000 BTU. My friend will be putting his stove on the hearth of what was a gas log fireplace. The fireplace has do damper and has a 12x12 terra cotta flue inside brick. His Encore will have a short section of non-insulated pipe running horizontal for 12-18 inches and then it will run into 18 feet of stainless double wall insulated pipe. Tne dealer says the Encore was originally tested with a 8 inch pipe. It is my understanding that all of the EPA tests were done with a 15 foot pipe. The dealer says a 6" pipe x 20 feet will draw very well unless you plan on using the stove with the doors open, which my friend does not plan on doing.

He checked with another dealer and the second dealer recommended an 8" insulated pipe.

He is planning on using a high quality, well insulated pipe that comes in 3 and 4 foot sections.

The research I have done seems to indicate that you need a certain amount of velocity of hot gasses going up the pipe.

Is there a scientific way to determine the size of the flue pipe?
 
Blue_Tractor_Man said:
Is there a scientific way to determine the size of the flue pipe?

Usually it would be the size of the collar on the stove. The manufacturer may specify a range, like no smaller than the collar and up to 25% or 50% larger, just for example, that should be in the documentation for the stove.
 
Thanks. I was looking for some sort of general standards for calculating the pipe size based on BTU, temperature, type of pipe, length of pipe, etc.

I saw some mention of such a chart on this forum, but I do not know where it is.
 
Why not just follow the manufacturer's recommendation?
 
These stoves are fussy about draft and their flue. Too little draft and there is a risk of it stalling and secondary combustion failing. That opens the potential for puffback. In this case it looks like your friend's installation is on the cusp. The short connector, to a 90 deg turn heading up the flue is effectively making this more like a 17' flue. It it was 25 ft of 6" flue, I might comfortable with that choice, but in this case from the facts at hand I would be leaning toward the 8" pipe with the consideration of adding a couple feet to the top if needed.

Here's the a link to the temp/draft graph:
http://www.woodheat.org/chimneys/aboutchimneys.htm
 

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Thank you! He has room for either a 6" or 8" pipe. I see what you are saying about the elbow. If by chance the 8" pipe was oversized, what would be the ill effects from it?
 
The pipe won't be oversized. It's what's specced for the stove. They should be absolutely sure that the horiz. connector is kept as short as possible and with a definite pitch uphill toward the flue liner. 1/4"/ft min, but 1/2"/ft would be better.
 
So the size of the pipe doesn't tend to make a stove overfire? My concern is not whether or not it will draw as much as a tendency to overfire. My stove draws just fine, but on very cold days you have to be very careful not to put too much wood in it lest it run away.

Do I understand that the VC non-cats have part of the air supply that cannot be controlled by the user? I read the "Florida Bungalo Syndrome" paper and I think I understand how the original EPA tests were done. It seems that chimney height and design can have a HUGE effect on how a stove functions.

Thanks.
 
This is the nature of the stove. The VC NC stoves are draft sensitive and a challenge to run in some conditions. You need to know a fair amount about burning and be on the ball to operate them well. Does your friend fit this description? If not, there are simpler and more forgiving designs for his needs.

True, modern EPA stove (not just the VC stoves) are not air tight. They do not allow one to completely restrict the air.
 
He is not as much into burning wood as my family is. We knew to drop down at least one size in stoves for his installation because my Defiant seems to ba a bit too much stove for my house. We have 2,000 feet downstairs and 1,000 feet upstairs. the stove is in a central location in our house. The stove seems to be happier if we run it with a hotter fire, but it will run you out of the house. I think maybe we should have gotten a smaller stove so that we could run it hotter. I just don't know.

But as for my friend, he wants a top-load stove with an ash pan. Do you have any recommendations?
 
With those qualifications the field is narrow. Personally I think both are over-rated. My first recommendation would be a Jotul Oslo for a medium-sized, easy to run stove in castiron. It's a side and front load stove and would be fine with his flue setup. Jotul also has a new top-load model called the Rangeley TL 50 that might work, but this is a new stove so we have no track record here. The Quadafire Cumberland Gap, Hearthsone Shelburne or Hampton H300 might also appeal to them.
 
FYI, they are all 6" flue stoves.
 
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