Over firring? Questions about my VC Encore 2550

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ColonialCity

Member
Dec 2, 2010
18
Pennsylvania
This is my first time posting here at hearth.com, but I've been here allot, just browsing and getting my questions answered by what others have posted before. I picked up a VC Encore 2550 a year and a half ago, and I've finally gotten it installed in my house. This week was the first burning that the stove has seen. The stove was in storage for a few years, don't know how many, but it's obvious that it was never burned before. I got a great deal on it, but with the chimney and misc accessories, I've got some money invested. Now I've read all sorts of bad things on this site about the VC stoves, but that's what I got, and I want to make it work. I've fired the 3-4 break in loads to heat up and cool down the stove in it's break in procedure per the manual. Last evening I loaded it up with oak actually started getting some usable heat out of it. I let the wood get burning 10-15 minutes, then closed the bypass to engage the cat. I had the air control lever set to low to 1/3, and I see a reduction of flaming of the wood. (still see plenty of flames, but there is definitely less than with the bypass open)

Here's the question:
After a 20 to 30 minutes burning with the cat engaged, I have my upper fireback and combustion throat hood glowing a nice red/orange. Flames off the wood are going up through the hood. Is this normal? Do I have an air leak on a new stove? At the point the stove was the hottest, I was hearing a slight rumble? from the back of the stove.

I imagine that I'm going to get hit by a bunch of "I'd take that stove out back and use it for target practice" type comments, but I really want to make this stove work!

I did the dollar bill test on the doors and ash pan door, these all test good!

Some info:
I have a 2.5 story house with a 6" flue selkirk 2100-ht chimney that I installed this fall. Maybe 35' chimney with a 6 ft 45degree offset partway up. using double wall stovepipe out the back of the stove, than elbow directly into the selkirk chimney.
Wood is 10" diameter oak logs that were stacked on a pline for a number of years, than more recently cross cut into 1"-2" frisbees. (my father ownes a chain saw shop, he test runs his saws and these are the byproduct)
Thanks in advance
 
Welcome to the forums! My first thought when I read this post was are you sure it's a cat stove? If you are hearing a rumble that sounds an awful lot like Everburn. Do you have any pictures or a model number?

Edit: Sorry I missed the model number and if that is the correct M# it is a catalytic stove. 35 ft of chimney is alot of chimney and can cause quite a bit of draft. 1/3 damper setting for low fire maybe way to much for you I have 29 ft of chimney on my stove and barely ever crack my primary air on low fire. it also sounds as if you are using small pieces of wood for that stove which can very quickly lead to very hot fires so you may need to run your primary air all most all the way shut. When my stove is on low fire there really aren't any flames and all i have is an orange glow.
 
1) Welcome to the forums!
2) Get a thermometer - better yet, get two.
3) Don't burn too many frisbees at once - mix in some bigger stuff.
 
Welcome Colonial-

I came to this forum last year in a similar situation - newbie with the 2550. I'll try to help out and share what I learned from the members here....

- You can hear a rumble if the stove goes into overfire territory.... temps in the cat chamber reaching 1800-2000F. The glowing draft hood is another sign of overfire.

- If you closed the damper 15 minutes in on a cold start that's too soon. You need to get the stovetop temp up to 500F before engaging the cat. I have a cat thermometer and Ive found that it typically takes about 20-30 min from the time that the griddle first hits 500 to the cat hitting 500. If you rush it you can crack a ceramic cat. (note on hot reloads 10-15 min can be enough).

- You also want to establish a good coal bed before engaging the cat. Once you do its possible to close the air down to zero and see no flames but the cat still keeps putting out the heat. Without a coal bed the fire might die.

- Whenever you see glowing metal you are in overfire. Turn down the air. You are aiming for 400-650F on the griddle as the usable heating range but due to the catalyst chamber design its possible to overheat the back of the stove even if the griddle is within the range. Just keep an eye on it.

- If you are putting 2 in hockey pucks in the stove its like a load full of small pieces and kindling. Easy to overfire. Fewer bigger splits might help.

- With a big load of dry wood I can often turn the air down to 1/8 and still get 500F. Even at zero air it will cruise at 400F or so if the wood is good.


Bottom line - this stove can be a good heater if operated carefully and maintained. 2 issues with VC:

1 The non-cat stoves have a horrible rep. Avoid like the plague.
2 The company got bought and sold many times and QC went downhill over the last 10 years. There is a label on the back you can find the mfg date. If it was made in "bad" years you will want to carefully check it over for problems. Dollar bill test on every gasket and use an incense stick to look for missing glue in the seams letting in air.


Good luck!
 
jharkin said:
Fewer bigger splits might help.

Meaning fewer and bigger splits, correct?
 
I know i need to get a thermometer, I'll pick one up today. I've read some posts where people installed a shield or partial block off over the air inlet. Are they referring to the secondary air inlet? Does anyone have experience with this or advise?
Thanks, my wood isn't very consistent, some pieces dry, and others don't burn as well. I know that fuel is the most important place to start.
incense sticks are the next thing i'll try to make sure there are no leaks.
 
yeah get a stovetop therm and shoot for 500-600 before engaging cat. this is a good stove and can produce significant amounts of heat once you get the feel for it, which takes a little bit, but you will get it. as others have said, dry wood is your best friend and if you have metal glowing than that is a very bad sign that its getting too hot. I have the Encore 2190, i think its the predecessor, and it produces great heat and once you get it crusing it is rather efficient. check your gaskets as well, primarily the doors and the ash pan door. If it is not sealed up good it will get too much air and inevitably will overfire. But dont think your stove isnt good just because its not running perfectly out of the box. there are several variables involved in efficiently burning a cat stove and getting these figured out just takes time. the griddle therm will help you out a lot though.
 
Alright, I just picked up a stove top thermometer. I put it in the middle of the griddle and let it do it's thing. Pretty soon I'm at 450-475 burning nicely on bypass. Loaded with 5-6 3" thick 9-10" diameter oak "frisbees". Nice amount of flame on bypass, with the air control about 1/4 open. Engage the cat and not much flame difference... A little less flame, but flames now going up into the combuster hood. Is the flaming into the hood normal, or won't that overheat and make the hood glow? I but it back to bypass because I don't want it to glow.
Too much chimney draft?
 
Alright, I just picked up a stove top thermometer. I put it in the middle of the griddle and let it do it's thing. Pretty soon I'm at 450-475 burning nicely on bypass. Loaded with 5-6 3" thick 9-10" diameter oak "frisbees". Nice amount of flame on bypass, with the air control about 1/4 open. Engage the cat and not much flame difference... A little less flame, but flames now going up into the combuster hood. Even with the primary air closed I still get the flaming into the hood. Is the flaming into the hood normal, or won't that overheat and make the hood glow? I put it back to bypass because I don't want it to glow.
Too much chimney draft like certified mentioned?
 
ColonialCity said:
Alright, I just picked up a stove top thermometer. I put it in the middle of the griddle and let it do it's thing. Pretty soon I'm at 450-475 burning nicely on bypass. Loaded with 5-6 3" thick 9-10" diameter oak "frisbees". Nice amount of flame on bypass, with the air control about 1/4 open. Engage the cat and not much flame difference... A little less flame, but flames now going up into the combuster hood. Even with the primary air closed I still get the flaming into the hood. Is the flaming into the hood normal, or won't that overheat and make the hood glow? I but it back to bypass because I don't want it to glow.
Too much chimney draft like certified mentioned?

I see a couple of things going on here.....
1) the wood is still considered small pieces.
2) how long are you waiting to see if the flames die down after engaging the cat?
3) are you shutting it down in stages or just going from full blast to engaging the cat and expecting it to immediately shutdown as it will take time for the fire to use up all the oxygen in the firebox.
4) if the stove has honestly never been used I doubt the cement in the seams would be leaking however you need to check and make sure that all doors are shutting tightly and the door gaskets are good. (especially the ash pan) Also there are probably 4 bolts that hold the door glass tight to the gaskets so make sure the door glass isn't loose.

My Vermont Castings is also a cat stove so lets walk through how I start it up (This varies for every person due to different chimneys etc but the basic gist of it should help)

1) Cold stove... Establish draft and light kindling
2) Allow kindling to catch start to add larger splits and let them catch.
3 Add pieces that you actually want to establish your burn with. At no point do I let this get to a raging fir that is being sucked up the flue.
4) Once larger splits have been added the stove is starting to heat up pretty well by now and I have started turning down primary air some to keep it from turning into a roaring fire. (no long flames being pulled up the chimney.
5) 5 or ten minutes later the stove is warming up nicely stove temp is reaching 400° and wood isn't roaring I then shut the bypass damper and wait for the cat to light off.
6) Once the cat is well established I continue turning down the primary air to the point I just have glowing wood and walk away for 8 to 10 hours.

This method works well for me and takes from 30 minutes to an hour to complete. Let me stress again that every stove/chimney are different and will act different. The key here is you establish a well controlled burn from begining to end of the process. I hope this helps.
 
Some other air leak sources to check. The gaskets seem fine you say, but there are other possibilities.

The ash door and the whole ash pan assembly are common sources for serious leaks. Look at the Encore 2550 schematic diagram in the manual (or online). There are 4+ bolts that hold the ash pan ass'y to the bottom of the 2550--TIGHTEN THEM if loose. There is a gasket for this.
Check that the ash door is secure and the gasket tight ALL around the ash door. This is an over engineered design.

Next: primary air. The "flap" on the base of the rear of the 2550 should close completely in the "no air/lowest air" with the handle to the far rear. Sometimes furnace cement or ash will prevent the air flap from closing. It's one of the best features of this cat stove that the air can be controlled from very high to near shut down WITH the cat in burn mode. Non cats cannot.

Other posters mentioned this, but this is the S.O.P. for this stove done for years on recommendations from the stove builders in Vermont with this and the previous 2 Encore cat models we had used.
Fill and light with the air full open (forward) and cat damper open until ~ 500 F to ~650 F on the top thermometer in the center of the griddle. All you need to monitor this stove.
Then pull the cat damper forward in a locked position for the smoke path through the cat ass'y box.
Then, When the temp rises above what it was when the cat was engaged, the air control is dropped to a lower level for sustained heat. The cat has then "lit off".
eASY.

An alarm is helpful for the steps in getting the Encore going in stages.
 
First thing, I have my therm in upper right corner of griddle, but that probably doesn't make a significant difference. When I have good coals and the wood is burning good i shoot for about 550 stovetop temps. I then shut down damper. You will see flames moving into throat hood and feeding the cat so to speak. Normal stuff there. But, once the damper is shut you should begin to see the flames die down. If wood is real real dry this may take a minute or so. If they don't die down you are getting too much air from somewhere. Once you shut damper and therm is holding steady at 550 or so you are doing good. At that point the air control on right side controls your stove. With good wood you will begin to cut the air down as the cat takes over. It would be good for you to locate the air intake on the back of the stove and move the air control on the right side to be sure it is moving. Should be near lower middle back of stove. Cheers and good luck. Sounds like it's all about air control at this point.
 
Got a nice coal bed and using some larger spits. I got up to 700F this morning once I engaged the cat. Less flames then before and no glowing on any metal parts, but I still think I'm getting too much primary air.
Anyone have a pic of the primary air flap of a 2550 in the closed position? Mine moves when I close the primary air control, but It's hard to tell if it shuts completely. It appears that it has an angled part on the bottom, not sure if it's supposed to "seal off"? I have the lower heat shield, so It's difficult to see in there, even with a good light.
Thanks again for the advise and tips.
 
ColonialCity said:
Got a nice coal bed and using some larger spits. I got up to 700F this morning once I engaged the cat. Less flames then before and no glowing on any metal parts, but I still think I'm getting too much primary air.
Anyone have a pic of the primary air flap of a 2550 in the closed position? Mine moves when I close the primary air control, but It's hard to tell if it shuts completely. It appears that it has an angled part on the bottom, not sure if it's supposed to "seal off"? I have the lower heat shield, so It's difficult to see in there, even with a good light.
Thanks again for the advise and tips.

Repeat:

Some other air leak sources to check. The gaskets seem fine you say, but there are other possibilities.

The ash door and the whole ash pan assembly are common sources for serious leaks. Look at the Encore 2550 schematic diagram in the manual (or online). There are 4+ bolts that hold the ash pan ass’y to the bottom of the 2550—TIGHTEN THEM if loose. There is a gasket for this.
Check that the ash door is secure and the gasket tight ALL around the ash door. This is an over engineered design.

Next: primary air. The “flap” on the base of the rear of the 2550 should close completely in the “no air/lowest air” with the handle to the far rear. Sometimes furnace cement or ash will prevent the air flap from closing. It’s one of the best features of this cat stove that the air can be controlled from very high to near shut down WITH the cat in burn mode. Non cats cannot.

Other posters mentioned this, but this is the S.O.P. for this stove done for years on recommendations from the stove builders in Vermont with this and the previous 2 Encore cat models we had used.
Fill and light with the air full open (forward) and cat damper open until ~ 500 F to ~650 F on the top thermometer in the center of the griddle. All you need to monitor this stove.
Then pull the cat damper forward in a locked position for the smoke path through the cat ass’y box.
Then, When the temp rises above what it was when the cat was engaged, the air control is dropped to a lower level for sustained heat. The cat has then “lit off”.
eASY.

An alarm is helpful for the steps in getting the Encore going in stages.

Done ? It is NOT the flue or wood with the 2550.
 
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