Problem. Too hot, with smoke

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ezwryder

New Member
Oct 6, 2010
34
West Central Iowa
I am a newbie wood burner with a new LOPI Endeavor wood stove which was professionally installed by a licensed installer employed by the dealer. This stove puts out more heat with less wood than I ever thought possible. I have been burning wood from standing deadwood, almost all hardwood, that I cut and split. It has all tested out with my moisture meter at 4% to 12%.

Preparatory to leaving for several hours today, I started it up and when it got going nicely with 6 or so 1" to 2" sticks, added two half 4 inch rounds, then added 4 larger splits with the intention of getting them going good and then closing the bypass damper and closing down the air control damper to slow down and prolong the burn.

My problem started when the fire really got going hard and my stove top temperature rapidly climbed to 650. I closed the air control damper all the way at that point but it didn't to shut down the fire. The temperature continued to climb to 700, the fire was still burning much harder than I thought it should, and then I REALLY got concerned. I emptied a 1 pound box of baking soda by throwing teaspoons full all over the fire box. Amazingly, it didn't seem to be able to slow it down much, so I threw another half box on it, which still didn't seem to slow it down enough. I then removed two of the hard burning bigger splits from the fire box and put them in my ash bucket and ran them outside and threw them in a pond 20 feet from my house. They smoked through the hinges all the way out. However this did do the trick and the firebox cooled down nicely, so I decided I could leave with both dampers in the closed position and let the fire go out, which it did. This episode did scare the bejeebers out of me.

My two resulting questions are how do I keep this from happening again, and how do I get the smoke smell out of the house?
 
Some observations:
700 isn't necessarily so bad. I believe Lopi considers 800 the upper limit for this stove. The air control only re-routes the air into the secondary system, it doesn't shut it off completely. What you witnessed was a full load of very dry wood off-gassing quickly. All secondary combustion, the gasses in the smoke being burned by the pre-heated air. It looks horrifying the first time you really get the stove cooking, but it's normal. I suspect that if you'd shut the air control and left the stove alone it might have climbed slightly in temperature, but then come back down on its own. It probably would have even gone out. Unless you have some sort of monster draft situation, which is rare. I'd be interested to hear what your chimney is like.

Next time:
Your wood sounds very dry. Most people don't have that problem. Because of that, you can start closing the air a little sooner, but only a little bit at a time. When the load is burning well, try closing the air down about half way at first, give it a few minutes, and then down to most of the way closed. Doing it in stages helps. I find that I almost never close the air all the way. You should expect the temperature to climb a little when the air is closed, and for the flames in the firebox to increase. That's how you achieve maximum efficiency. Maybe only partial loads until you get the hang of it.
;-)
 
The air was shut down a little late so the wood outgassed a bit more rapidly than desired. No real harm done or need to panic. Next time close down the air sooner with a full load of wood on a hot coal bed. And turn on the blower to help cool the stove down.
 
I have a Lopi Liberty and I love it...it will blow us out of here in 2500 sq ft of vaulted ceilings, etc. Sounds to me like you had a great fire going....though I understand the concern. What I monitor isn't the stove temp but the stack temp. If that starts to get too hot, I'll drop the air down. Otherwise I set the air to match the desired heat output. For a long burn, like overnight or when leaving, I'll close the air most of the way and we'll easily have coals 10 hours later...or more. Your wood is very dry, it will burn faster and hotter, so I'd say throw a little less on the fire.

The one thing with the Liberty, and I assume yours as well, is the door gasket really does like to be replaced every year. I assume yours is new and no worries there. But, after a few months with a gasket, I can really tell the difference with how much control I actually have to shut down the fire....the gasket just leaks air. Put in a new one, and a tremendous difference.

Make sure your door closes tight against the gasket. There is an adjustment on the latch....but I'd suspect you are fine.

Enjoy watching those beautiful secondary air burns....and getting blown away with the heat! I can still sit and watch the fire....never seem to grow tired of this.
 
it got going nicely with 6 or so 1” to 2” sticks, added two half 4 inch rounds, then added 4 larger splits
Click to expand...

You should probably try a different approach to keep it from going too high in temperature too quickly. A half dozen sticks is probably good enough to get the firebox warmed up from cold, but then putting 6 total larger pieces in on top of that seems like adding a little too much fuel to what was probably already a pretty good fire, and maybe you also waited a little too long to start turning the primary air down.

Having said that, the Lopi stoves are pretty well built, so going up to 800 is not a problem. I've been up to 750 unintentionally, and no issues. My Lopi dealer tells me that 800 is a safe upper limit as well (though probably not for cruising temperatures).
 
So questions are answered except for that smoke smell. That is easily taken care of by lighting a candle or two.
 
Was the stove installed with an outside air kit? If so, you might have been able to reduce some of the air supply by blocking the air intake. I've also heard of people blocking the inside air intake with tinfoil.

Some of these stoves that you can't close the air supply enough, you need to be a little more careful how you load it, and how hot you let it get before closing it down. Sounds like there was some pilot error but that you probably could have just left the door closed and rode it out. Opening the door to try to do something about the fast burn only makes it burn hotter.
 
brand new stove + first rippin fire = some of the paint on the stove curing... even if you've even had a couple fires in her, the paint on the heat shield takes a little higher temp to cure off, probly the explanation for the smoke.
 
We installed our Endeavor 8yrs ago. Really like it. We use a Rutland magnetic termometer on the cook top (lower level). The burn range on the termometer is 250F to 550F. We usually run it in the 300F to 350F range. We run the damper open all the time and control heat with the amount of wood in the stove. Usually we add wood when the blower shuts off. All wood is cut, split and stacked 2 seasons before we use it. Im told the secret is anticipation. Build the fire slowly to the desired level and then maintain it. The dealer showed us secondary combustion tubes from a Lopi Liberty that were badly warped from over heating. The Lopi web site has a lot of info on stove operation and cooking on the stove. The videos are well done and down to earth.
My grandsons are liking the snow. We got about 7in here in central Illinois. How much did you get?
 
Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I'm trying to understand how you recognize the secondary burn, is it when the flame turns gassy looking? I can see that I need to plan ahead better for adjusting the air and seem to be doing better with it. The stove pipe is black double wall. The chimney is stainless steel with a cap. There has been no problem getting the smoke up the chimney. I'm sure that my investment in stove, splitter, chain saw, sharpener, and miscellaneous tools and gadgets will be paid back by 2025 or 30 or 40? When all is said and done, I'm still loving the whole process. Life is good.
 
Hey, there is no good reason why you won't get pay-back much sooner than 2025 or later! It really does not take long when you do things right. A couple years and maybe as many as 4 or 5 should pay for all that. The rest will be gravy from then on.

The benefits will certainly outweigh any negatives from burning wood. Keep on learning and you will be in the ball park very soon.
 
We're in West Central Iowa just 4 1/2 miles from exit 93 of I-80. Luckily we got no snow here. There's more standing deadwood that needs to be cut and split, so I hope the snow holds off a while longer.
 
ezwryder said:
There has been no problem getting the smoke up the chimney. I'm sure that my investment in stove, splitter, chain saw, sharpener, and miscellaneous tools and gadgets will be paid back by 2025 or 30 or 40?
Click to expand...
If you keep stinking up the house by carrying burning logs across it to dispose of them in the pond, you'll have the additional cost of dinner/diamonds for the wife to add to that ROI.
 
jensent said:
We installed our Endeavor 8yrs ago. Really like it. We use a Rutland magnetic termometer on the cook top (lower level). The burn range on the termometer is 250F to 550F. We usually run it in the 300F to 350F range. We run the damper open all the time and control heat with the amount of wood in the stove. Usually we add wood when the blower shuts off. All wood is cut, split and stacked 2 seasons before we use it. Im told the secret is anticipation. Build the fire slowly to the desired level and then maintain it. The dealer showed us secondary combustion tubes from a Lopi Liberty that were badly warped from over heating. The Lopi web site has a lot of info on stove operation and cooking on the stove. The videos are well done and down to earth.
My grandsons are liking the snow. We got about 7in here in central Illinois. How much did you get?
Click to expand...

Hi Jensent -

Just wondering how you operate the stove (continuous or occasional fires) and the size of the space you're heating. Could be a useful point of reference for me in deciding on a stove.

If you keep the damper open all the time, you're bypassing secondary burn, right? Any creosote problems?

Thanks,

John
 
jensent said:
We installed our Endeavor 8yrs ago. Really like it. We use a Rutland magnetic termometer on the cook top (lower level). The burn range on the termometer is 250F to 550F. We usually run it in the 300F to 350F range. We run the damper open all the time and control heat with the amount of wood in the stove. Usually we add wood when the blower shuts off. All wood is cut, split and stacked 2 seasons before we use it. Im told the secret is anticipation. Build the fire slowly to the desired level and then maintain it. The dealer showed us secondary combustion tubes from a Lopi Liberty that were badly warped from over heating. The Lopi web site has a lot of info on stove operation and cooking on the stove. The videos are well done and down to earth.
My grandsons are liking the snow. We got about 7in here in central Illinois. How much did you get?
Click to expand...

Jensent, you should not run the stove with the draft open all the time. Open just a little bit yes, but not full open. If you are doing this you are wasting good heat because it shoots straight up the chimney. Once the fire is established, you need to dial that draft down and this will keep the heat in the stove and in the house rather than sending it up the chimney.
 
boxerdogheidi said:
As for the smell, spray a good odour eliminator. Not an air freshener or any of that stuff.
Click to expand...

Like Febreze, for example?
 
Febreze does make an extra strength one. But what I bought at Home Depot was "Zep Commercial" Professional Strength. You're suppose to dilute it but when my dog got skunked I just put a spray nozzle on the bottle and used it around the house full strength. It actually really worked.
 
I have to question 4 to 12% moisture readings. I do a lot of woodworking with air dried lumber and I've never seen a 1" thick board get below 8-10% in a year or more of drying. I know when my wood was not so seasoned I would have problems with smoke and controlling temps. Are you checking on a freshly split piece of wood? What moisture meter are you using?
 
bpirger said:
Enjoy watching those beautiful secondary air burns....and getting blown away with the heat! I can still sit and watch the fire....never seem to grow tired of this.
Click to expand...

Interesting, and sounds great. I had heard the Endeavor was just a smoke chamber to feed the secondary, with not much to see...
 
Backwoods Savage said:
jensent said:
We installed our Endeavor 8yrs ago. Really like it. We use a Rutland magnetic termometer on the cook top (lower level). The burn range on the termometer is 250F to 550F. We usually run it in the 300F to 350F range. We run the damper open all the time and control heat with the amount of wood in the stove. Usually we add wood when the blower shuts off. All wood is cut, split and stacked 2 seasons before we use it. Im told the secret is anticipation. Build the fire slowly to the desired level and then maintain it. The dealer showed us secondary combustion tubes from a Lopi Liberty that were badly warped from over heating. The Lopi web site has a lot of info on stove operation and cooking on the stove. The videos are well done and down to earth.
My grandsons are liking the snow. We got about 7in here in central Illinois. How much did you get?
Click to expand...

Jensent, you should not run the stove with the draft open all the time. Open just a little bit yes, but not full open. If you are doing this you are wasting good heat because it shoots straight up the chimney. Once the fire is established, you need to dial that draft down and this will keep the heat in the stove and in the house rather than sending it up the chimney.
Click to expand...

+1
Closing the air control increases the secondary burn, so closing at least part of the way once the load is burning well will result in a hotter fire. Leaving it open is wasting potential heat.
 
JV_Thimble said:
bpirger said:
Enjoy watching those beautiful secondary air burns....and getting blown away with the heat! I can still sit and watch the fire....never seem to grow tired of this.
Click to expand...

Interesting, and sounds great. I had heard the Endeavor was just a smoke chamber to feed the secondary, with not much to see...
Click to expand...

You're thinking of the Blaze King.
 
JV and Backwoods
We heat almost totally with the stove. Its 8 degrees and calm outside, 72 degrees inside. First floor is 1750sq ft,second floor is unheated as we are remodeling. We have to run the gas forced air furnace if it get much colder or get windy as the stove wont keep up with heat demand. Run the furnace when we first get up in the morning for an hour or so until the stove gets up to temp.
Wood is whatever the tree service dumps in my side yard. That way he doesnt have to pay to use the landfill. He has a list of those who use wood.
When I said damper I meant the air control. It usually stays all the way open on the high burn setting. The bypass is used only for loading and establishing the initial fire. That would be the only time that I would be bypassing the secondary burn as I understand it. (See the videos on the Lopi web site).
We burn 24/7 during the heating season. The chimney was cleaned after 3yrs use and again after 7yrs use. We remove the double wall telescoping stove pipe and clean the chimney from inside the house carefully collecting any deposits. The insulated factory chimney runs straight up over the stove about 20ft. Both cleanings produced about one-half cup of deposits from the chimney. Dealer claimed that if the door glass on the stove stays clean the chimney stays clean. We usually clean the glass about once a week. Dont think we are doing too much wrong. We rally enjoy that stove. Our gas bill runs about $250 a year.
 
madrone said:
JV_Thimble said:
bpirger said:
Enjoy watching those beautiful secondary air burns....and getting blown away with the heat! I can still sit and watch the fire....never seem to grow tired of this.
Click to expand...

Interesting, and sounds great. I had heard the Endeavor was just a smoke chamber to feed the secondary, with not much to see...
Click to expand...

You're thinking of the Blaze King.
Click to expand...

Or maybe bpirger is - that's what I'm following from here...
 
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