Harman TL 300 -What am I doing wrong?

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bigbear

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Jan 3, 2010
30
PA
I have a harman TL 300 that I bought last fall (2009). I got through the winter, but I was never happy with the way it heated my house. The house is 16 years old, with a partially exposed basement. I have attached a picture I drew up quick to show the floor plan of my house. I simply cannot get this stove to heat the upstairs of my house adequately, unless I'm here to keep feeding it wood every 2 or 3 hours. In fact, it won't even roast you out of the basement, which is why the upstairs won't get hot. Its in the low 20's lately here in northern PA and I can get the upstairs of my house to 65-67 degrees, with me here keeping it fed over the weekend. When I go to work, it will be 60-62 when I get home upstairs. Not ideal for me after spending all day out in the cold. As you can see, i have registers in floors all through the upstairs, leave the stair door open with a fan blowing up the steps. I also have a large fan directly above the stove hanging off the floor joist to blow hot air across the basement, another fan along the back wall to help it further across and yet another fan off the floor joists at the landing area on stairway to help blow hot air towards the master bedroom.

So, after all that, what can I do to heat my house adequately, get a wood boiler?. This is the biggest stove harman sells and it won't heat this place, unless I'm overlooking something. I will add I have natural gas HWBB heat, but I only use that when I go away and cant be home to feed the fire.

I'm burning dried hard maple, beech and cherry.

basement.jpg

upstairs.jpg
 
How long has the wood been cut/split/stacked? Do you have a thermometer for the stove or flue, and what are the temps? Are you getting a good coal bed, then stepping down the air slowly to make sure you have secondary combustion (no visible smoke outside)?

It will help greatly if you insulate the basement at least partially so the heat isn't sucked up by the floor/walls. Also, have the fans blow cool air towards the stove rather than trying the opposite.
 
The wood I have been buring was dropped 2 years ago. I cut, split and stacked it inside my shed in April.

The pipe temp, 6" above stove top runs around 400-450 with the front draft control in the middle setting. I always have good coals when I load it up and let the new load catch real good so it will go into reburn when I close the rear damper. No smoke outside.
 
You mentioned feeding it every few hours - what are the longest burn times you get? If you can shut the air back to 1/4 open, or less, from 1/2 open you might keep more of the heat and get a longer burn, too. I think you should be able to run the flue closer to 300F. Do you ever take a stove top temp, or the back sidewall of the afterburner?

What about insulation - is the basement finished or bare concrete? That could make all the difference.
 
I just switched from basement heating to having it in my livingroom fireplace and I couldn't be happier with the results. I no longer have to go downstairs to load it and I can watch the fire as I watch TV. The house has not been under 70 since I brought it upstairs. I have to keep small fires during the day so I don't overheat the house! I have a similar lay out. Right now it's low 20's °F out and the hallway thermostat says 75 °F. Some tips I learned on this site: try blowing the cold air toward the stove. You're trying to blow the hot air to where you need it, I know. It works better if you set a fan in the doorway on the floor of the coldest rooms blowing toward the stairs where the heat is coming from. This will cause negative pressure in those rooms and replace the cold air with warm air. Turn the fan at the foot of the stairs and blow it toward the stove, keep this fan low to the ground. Keep the fan above the stove off and try this technique. If it doesn't work put your large fan in the livingroom/kitchen cased openning, blowing toward the stairs, with it's back against the side of the cased openning closest to the master bedroom. This will suck all the cold air out of that section of the house and push it toward the stove. This air will be replaced with warm air. This circulates air around better than trying to push hot air. Hold your hand up high in the doorway of the room where the fan is pointing outwards and you can feel the warm air rushing in. The registers are working against you. They should be in the corner furthest to the door. The stove's air intake will get air from them that way your room will suck in the hot air rushing up the stairs even more.

Good luck. Keep us posted.
 
Maple, beech and cherry are also quick burning hard woods. If you can get it try oak, hickory. However that stove should be able to heat your house. I just looked it up, 1,500-2000 ft heating capacity. If the basement is unfinished this can be your wrost enemy. Concrete loves to suck up heat. Hang some moving blankets in front of the concrete wall to try to insulate it a bit.
 
VCBurner said:
I just switched from basement heating to having it in my livingroom fireplace and I couldn't be happier with the results. I no longer have to go downstairs to load it and I can watch the fire as I watch TV. The house has not been under 70 since I brought it upstairs. I have to keep small fires during the day so I don't overheat the house! I have a similar lay out. Right now it's low 20's °F out and the hallway thermostat says 75 °F. Some tips I learned on this site: try blowing the cold air toward the stove. You're trying to blow the hot air to where you need it, I know. It works better if you set a fan in the doorway on the floor of the coldest rooms blowing toward the stairs where the heat is coming from. This will cause negative pressure in those rooms and replace the cold air with warm air. Turn the fan at the foot of the stairs and blow it toward the stove, keep this fan low to the ground. Keep the fan above the stove off and try this technique. If it doesn't work put your large fan in the livingroom/kitchen cased openning, blowing toward the stairs, with it's back against the side of the cased openning closest to the master bedroom. This will suck all the cold air out of that section of the house and push it toward the stove. This air will be replaced with warm air. This circulates air around better than trying to push hot air. Hold your hand up high in the doorway of the room where the fan is pointing outwards and you can feel the warm air rushing in. The registers are working against you. They should be in the corner furthest to the door. The stove's air intake will get air from them that way your room will suck in the hot air rushing up the stairs even more.

Good luck. Keep us posted.
Click to expand...

Thnaks! I'll give it a shot and see what happens. I never thought of it that way, but it makes sense now.

Pagey said:
Is your basement insulated? Take a minute to read this handy .pdf from Woodstock's site discussing basement installations. It can be a real eye opener as to just how many BTUs you lose through those walls.

http://www.woodstove.com/pages/guidepdfs/BasementInstall.pdf
Click to expand...

Good read! Thank you! Guess I know what I need to do...
 
bigbear said:
VCBurner said:
I just switched from basement heating to having it in my livingroom fireplace and I couldn't be happier with the results. I no longer have to go downstairs to load it and I can watch the fire as I watch TV. The house has not been under 70 since I brought it upstairs. I have to keep small fires during the day so I don't overheat the house! I have a similar lay out. Right now it's low 20's °F out and the hallway thermostat says 75 °F. Some tips I learned on this site: try blowing the cold air toward the stove. You're trying to blow the hot air to where you need it, I know. It works better if you set a fan in the doorway on the floor of the coldest rooms blowing toward the stairs where the heat is coming from. This will cause negative pressure in those rooms and replace the cold air with warm air. Turn the fan at the foot of the stairs and blow it toward the stove, keep this fan low to the ground. Keep the fan above the stove off and try this technique. If it doesn't work put your large fan in the livingroom/kitchen cased openning, blowing toward the stairs, with it's back against the side of the cased openning closest to the master bedroom. This will suck all the cold air out of that section of the house and push it toward the stove. This air will be replaced with warm air. This circulates air around better than trying to push hot air. Hold your hand up high in the doorway of the room where the fan is pointing outwards and you can feel the warm air rushing in. The registers are working against you. They should be in the corner furthest to the door. The stove's air intake will get air from them that way your room will suck in the hot air rushing up the stairs even more.

Good luck. Keep us posted.
Click to expand...

Thnaks! I'll give it a shot and see what happens. I never thought of it that way, but it makes sense now.

Pagey said:
Is your basement insulated? Take a minute to read this handy .pdf from Woodstock's site discussing basement installations. It can be a real eye opener as to just how many BTUs you lose through those walls.

http://www.woodstove.com/pages/guidepdfs/BasementInstall.pdf
Click to expand...

Hopefully it was helpful to you in some way. I was surprised to see just how difficult it can be to heat from an uninsulated basement and equally surprised to see just how many BTUs one can save by even applying some marginal insulation!

Good read! Thank you! Guess I know what I need to do...
Click to expand...
 
One thing about the stove position - is the wall behind it bare concrete? If you can get something reflective behind the stove (even aluminum foil), leaving a bit of airspace between it and the wall, you will lose a lot less heat to the wall.

Remember, the burn chamber is in the rear, so that's where the heat is thrown. You can hit amazingly high temps back there, I know, because as I was reading this thread my thermometer just lost magnetism and dropped onto the floor off the back of my stove. That means around 900F - I forgot to turn on my floor fan, and that's what happens - on a half load of dry poplar at half-open air.
 
Thanks! I’ll give it a shot and see what happens. I never thought of it that way, but it makes sense now.
Click to expand...

Please let me know how it works for you. I'm always curious to see if a heating problem can be fixed.

Tonight will be tough if the weather by you is as low as ours. Low in the teens.
This morning was the coldest we've had after an overnight burn. The hallway was @66 °C this morning. I put a lot of small splits in, not good for an overnighter. I won't do the same tonight. About to load the stove for tonight's burn after watching the Pats kill the Jets. What a good night.
 
For those who have asked, the basement is not insulated, just a block wall. I tried moving some fans around like was suggested and it seemed to help. 68.9 degrees in my living room when I got up. 16 outside. I was able to get it up to 72.6 before I went to bed after watching the Pats thump the Jets. One question I do have, there is alot of heat coming up the steps into my hallway. WOuld I be better with a fan in the hall blowing towards the kitchen or from the kitchen to the hall? Thanks!!
 
bigbear said:
One question I do have, there is alot of heat coming up the steps into my hallway. WOuld I be better with a fan in the hall blowing towards the kitchen or from the kitchen to the hall? Thanks!!
Click to expand...

Floor fan blowing from the kitchen to the hall. The warm air that you want will be rising aloft, and it will naturally flow in to rooms as you push cooler floor air back in the direction of the stove/stairs.

I'm betting that block right in the area of your stove is getting pretty warm, and it's transferring that heat out and away from you. I'm assuming you don't have a blower and are just using fans, correct?
 
This is just a guess, but the blower might not be well suited to your setup, with the block absorbing a good deal of heat. Trying to fix that problem, closest to the stove, might be worth trying.
 
Hey bigbear,

So the fan thing worked. I had a feeling it would. I find that sometimes if the fan blowing is too big it works against you. I use small Sunbeam Fan-Forced Heaters on fan only mode. They are quiet and suttle and really low to the ground. They don't blow as much of the warm air around because the actual fan is only about an inch away from the floor. They are cheap too, only $15 at Walmart. They also have a smaller one for $10 that I'm sure would work too. I had a regular oscilating fan at the end of the hallway with the two bedrooms and the bathroom and it seemed to blow too much cool air upwards. I just bought another one of those Sunbeam fans and it works better.

I like the idea someone mentioned about the reflective material behind the stove, but that part of your cellar is finished right? It would help to hang some blankets on the block wall, to insulate it a bit.

I'm probably going to hear it for suggesting this, but I had a Heatilator installed on my connector pipe when I had the stove in the basement and it made a world of difference. It adds 30,000 BTU's of heat from the otherwise wasted flue gasses going up your chimney. You'll see some people on this site who are dead against the thing, but I found it extremelly helpfull when heating from a basement. Unlike I was told, it did not create a ton of creosote in the connectors or chimney. I wouldn't use it if you're one of those guys who lets huge logs smolder in your stove though!

Take care!
 
with your setup, trying to heat the house from the un insulated basement, a wood fired central heat option in tandem with your existing setup would work better for you if you are committed to keeping woodburning activity in the basement... If you are committed to running a stove, then move it upstairs. The latter would be the cheaper option to try. Probably the cheapest option would be to insulate the basement, which should be done either way.
 
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