Avalon Arbor... 70% efficiency?

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emt1581

Minister of Fire
Hearth Supporter
Jul 6, 2010
523
PA
We are planning on getting an Avalon Arbor wood stove and went to the shop today to look at one. We love the look and mechanics of it. However, I read on the info sheet that it only is 70% efficiency. That seems really low....no? Most others I've seen are at least in the low 80's.

Now is this efficiency number a big deal or is it really of little consequence?

Thanks!

-Emt1581
 
The official number is of little consequence, as long as the stove is standard modern burn technology - your actual mileage may vary. The real world number (based on dry wood, adequate flue, and good technique) is what counts, not the EPA lab number.

EDIT: seems the stove is NOT standard burn technology, but is crossdraft/downdraft (like mine) - this will likely be somewhat less efficient than a standard burn-tube technology, which is in turn less efficient than a cat stove. I think this stove is a version of the Lopi Leyden, so visit associated threads and do your research well!
 
branchburner said:
The official number is of little consequence, as long as the stove is standard modern burn technology - your actual mileage may vary. The real world number (based on dry wood, adequate flue, and good technique) is what counts, not the EPA lab number.

EDIT: seems the stove is NOT standard burn technology, but is crossdraft/downdraft (like mine) - this will likely be somewhat less efficient than a standard burn-tube technology, which is in turn less efficient than a cat stove. I think this stove is a version of the Lopi Leyden, so visit associated threads and do your research well!
Click to expand...

I appreciate the info.

Now I saw you said that you have the same sort of technology in your stove. I guess in the grand scheme of things I'm curious what the realistic difference is when comparing this less efficient technology to a cat stove?

Thanks!

-Emt1581
 
emt1581 said:
I guess in the grand scheme of things I'm curious what the realistic difference is when comparing this less efficient technology to a cat stove?
Click to expand...

I'm thinking I could burn 10% less wood with a "regular" stove and 20% less with a cat. That's just a guess - I might use even less with a cat because the extra control would mean I wasn't always overheating the place. (I don't mind the extra heat, but I don't need it, either.)

Besides efficiency, my type of stove ranks a bit lower than others in ease of use. Worth considering.
 
There's a difference between combustion efficiency and overall heating efficiency which is why you can sometimes see a discrepancy in these figures. The overall efficiency for this stove is ~75% as reported on their website.

Do read up on downdraft stoves here. They are particular about draft and can be higher maintenance due to breakdown of the refractory.
 
BeGreen said:
There's a difference between combustion efficiency and overall heating efficiency which is why you can sometimes see a discrepancy in these figures. The overall efficiency for this stove is ~75% as reported on their website.

Do read up on downdraft stoves here. They are particular about draft and can be higher maintenance due to breakdown of the refractory.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering what the higher maintenance is? I'll have to research refractory as it relates to stoves but what it means in another subject area is the time it takes to "get going again".

Really what this comes down to is we wanted a cream/off-white colored cast iron wood stove, and this is pretty much the only one we found that looks nice and is large enough to heat our home. Vermont castings has a "biscuit" color but not in any stove that is large enough.

Any ideas on brands/models we may have missed?

Thanks!

-Emt1581
 
Jotul has a few that may fit the bill. The Firelight & the Oslo. Napoleon has a jacketed steel stoves available in almond enamel.

F600 Firelight
•Maximum heat output: 81,500 BTU/hr
•Heating capacity: Up to 2,500 sq.ft
•Over 75% efficient
•Log length: 24"
•Burn time: Up to 10 hours
•Finish options: Blue/Black, or Ivory Enamel, Brown or Blue Majolica Enamel or Matte Black Paint
•Flue outlet: Top, and rear
•Flue size: 6"
•Weight: 465 lbs
•Accessories: Fire screen, Floor bracket kit, Bottom and rear heatshield

F500 Oslo
•Maximum heat output: 70,000 BTU/hr
•Heating capacity: Up to 2,000 sq.ft
•Over 75% efficient
•Log length: 22"
•Burn time: Up to 9 hours
•Finish options: Blue/Black, Ivory, Brown, Blue or Green Majolica enamel or Matte Black Paint
•Flue outlet: Top, and rear
•Flue size: 6"
•Weight: 445lbs
•Accessories: Fire screen, Short leg kit for fireplace installations, Floor bracket kit, Bottom and rear heatshield
 
gasavage said:
Jotul has a few that may fit the bill. The Firelight & the Oslo. Napoleon has a jacketed steel stoves available in almond enamel.

F600 Firelight
•Maximum heat output: 81,500 BTU/hr
•Heating capacity: Up to 2,500 sq.ft
•Over 75% efficient
•Log length: 24"
•Burn time: Up to 10 hours
•Finish options: Blue/Black, or Ivory Enamel, Brown or Blue Majolica Enamel or Matte Black Paint
•Flue outlet: Top, and rear
•Flue size: 6"
•Weight: 465 lbs
•Accessories: Fire screen, Floor bracket kit, Bottom and rear heatshield

F500 Oslo
•Maximum heat output: 70,000 BTU/hr
•Heating capacity: Up to 2,000 sq.ft
•Over 75% efficient
•Log length: 22"
•Burn time: Up to 9 hours
•Finish options: Blue/Black, Ivory, Brown, Blue or Green Majolica enamel or Matte Black Paint
•Flue outlet: Top, and rear
•Flue size: 6"
•Weight: 445lbs
•Accessories: Fire screen, Short leg kit for fireplace installations, Floor bracket kit, Bottom and rear heatshield
Click to expand...


Looks like they aren't cat stoves but the numbers are slightly more impressive. I haven't been able to get a pic of this Almond color or whatever they call it but I figure I'll call my dealer up tomorrow and see what they go for and such. However, IIRC, he doesn't stock/order Jotuls...at least I don't think they are on his website of brands he links to.

I appreciate the suggestions though and please keep them coming!!

Still curious to know what the higher maintenance is of the Arbor.

Thanks!:)

-Emt1581
 
emt1581 said:
BeGreen said:
There's a difference between combustion efficiency and overall heating efficiency which is why you can sometimes see a discrepancy in these figures. The overall efficiency for this stove is ~75% as reported on their website.

Do read up on downdraft stoves here. They are particular about draft and can be higher maintenance due to breakdown of the refractory.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering what the higher maintenance is? I'll have to research refractory as it relates to stoves but what it means in another subject area is the time it takes to "get going again".

Really what this comes down to is we wanted a cream/off-white colored cast iron wood stove, and this is pretty much the only one we found that looks nice and is large enough to heat our home. Vermont castings has a "biscuit" color but not in any stove that is large enough.

Any ideas on brands/models we may have missed?

Thanks!

-Emt1581
Click to expand...

The Arbor/Leyden are only 4 yrs old, so the repair record is just starting to get established. For sidedraft stove posts, the best place to start here is with a search on "neverburn". And read the reviews: https://www.hearth.com/ratings/search.php

This is the Oslo in ivory. I'd also suggest the Hearthstone Shelburne and Quadrafire Cumberland Gap, but they are not available in ivory. It's just my opinion, but it seems to me that the stove color should be a lower priority than doing the job well, year after year.
 

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emt1581 said:
Still curious to know what the higher maintenance is of the Arbor.
Click to expand...

It is in two realms:
1) Daily maintenance of keeping a good coal bed for secondary combustion = longer learning curve / more patience required
2) Long-term maintenance of having a fragile part that is easily damaged and will need replacing at some point = $$$

EDIT: Follow this thread - https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/64669/
 
BeGreen said:
The Arbor/Leyden are only 4 yrs old, so the repair record is just starting to get established. For sidedraft stove posts, the best place to start here is with a search on "neverburn". And read the reviews: https://www.hearth.com/ratings/search.php

This is the Oslo in ivory. I'd also suggest the Hearthstone Shelburne and Quadrafire Cumberland Gap, but they are not available in ivory. It's just my opinion, but it seems to me that the stove color should be a lower priority than doing the job well, year after year.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more, plenty of good looking stoves that you can tailor your room colors to fit if that's what you're looking for. I'd build the room around the stove not select the stove to fit the room.

From what I've read on the downdraft style stoves on this site I don't think you'll be happy with this style stove. Seems they take a lot of patience to use.
 
rdust said:
BeGreen said:
It's just my opinion, but it seems to me that the stove color should be a lower priority than doing the job well, year after year.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more, plenty of good looking stoves that you can tailor your room colors to fit if that's what you're looking for. I'd build the room around the stove not select the stove to fit the room.
Click to expand...

IMHO there is nothing wrong with picking a stove based on appearance first, to fit your house and your tastes, as long as you confirm it ALSO has everything you need and want in terms of functionality. That's what these threads are for.
 
WOW!! Lots of great info there...thank yall so much!! :)

I definitely have some reading to do tonight!

Thanks again and please feel free to keep sharing!

-Emt1581
 
I did some more homework today and it turns out the info I had on the Arbor was outdated. They have recently bumped up the efficiency to over 75% it has something called double burn capability as well as ceramic liner (which I guess it didn't have before).

Given that, it seems like stove is good efficiency-wise. However, I still need to learn why it takes patience to use a downdraft stove...

Thanks!

-Emt1581
 
branchburner said:
If you have the patience for these threads, you have the patience for the stove:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/4188/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/10996/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/6674/
Click to expand...

I'm guessing by patience yall are talking about the steps listed in that second thread. I grew up with an Osburn insert and I remember the steps my father used to go through to get it going. While not the same, it was a process and is doesn't seem like this would be drastically different. Plus I plan to start it and keep it going for most of the week once it gets cold enough so there won't be frequent stops/starts.

But is there anything else I should know about this whole patience issue?

I still have homework to do but I just want to make sure I'm not missing something I should know.

Thanks!

-Emt1581
 
Can you describe the flue system be that the stove will be connected to?
 
I have the Lopi Leyden, which is the same thing as the Avalon Arbor, only difference is the door style & castings on the side. I'm not sure about extra patience, but there is a little more maintenance to these stoves. In return you get the ease of top load and the ability to put a tremendous amount of wood into the stove. I'm getting 12 hour plus burn times fairly easily with oak & hickory. The biggest frustration i've seen with users is when they shut the bypass damper too quickly after the fire is started. I beleive the manual states 30 to 45 minutes after starting the fire. It will seem like the fire is going great, but in most cases just doesn't have the coal bed to sustain the proper level of burn. As i was able to adjust to that the performance really went up. On the extra maintenance, you will see in the back of the stove there are two slots for the exhaust to enter the combustion box, as hard as i try i can't keep some level of ash from going back in there, i've found that taking a vacuum hose & putting it back there, maybe twice a season pulls the ash out & allows the draft to go uninterupted. At the end of the season when you clean the chimney, disconnect the pipe from the stove & you can see the top of the combustor box, on either side there is a space, put the shop vac hose down each side & pull any ash out that has accumulated back there during the season. For me the little bit of extra maintenance is well worth the added burn time & ease of top load. Feel free to contact me if there are any questions i can help you with.
 
BeGreen said:
Can you describe the flue system be that the stove will be connected to?
Click to expand...

It's a 6" clay lined. And now I'm thinking I might have a problem because it needs to be 8" to get a liner/insulation/mesh down it... :(

Or can I just hook the pipe right up to the flue? Oh I seem to remember that was somewhere between an insurance company nightmare and a death trap...

-Emt1581
 
EMT1581, at exactly this time last year, my posts could have read exactly like yours. But I didn't know about hearth.com much back then.

We bought the Leyden to go with the living room, hands down.
By patience, I think we're getting at knowing just when the coal bed is good enough. Like I know when I stand in front of the glass and my shins feel like they are going to burn. Try to burn without a capable coal bed and you will become frustrated.

Of course, you've got to have dry wood.
Splits placed into the stove have to be done with some forethought, at least in my case. Can't block the exhaust at the shoe or set anything up to block the exhaust after burning for a bit.
Things like that.

Our Leyden is beautiful and it's heating our home.
 
emt1581 said:
I grew up with an Osburn insert and I remember the steps my father used to go through to get it going. While not the same, it was a process and is doesn't seem like this would be drastically different. Plus I plan to start it and keep it going for most of the week once it gets cold enough so there won't be frequent stops/starts.

But is there anything else I should know about this whole patience issue?

I still have homework to do but I just want to make sure I'm not missing something I should know.
Click to expand...

No, all you need to know is that there are things you'll need to know - to run this stove efficiently just requires a little trial and error, because the steps and timing will be unique for your setup and needs. As Troutchaser says, if you don't have the patience you will become frustrated.

I think people can get frustrated when they try to make a stove behave in ways it won't. Getting great, clean, hot burns out of green wood tops the list of unrealistic expectations. For myself, getting to know my stove has made all the patience (and occasional impatience) very rewarding. The Oakwood is part of the family now. So even when I say I would trade it out, I doubt I would. Same goes for the other members of the family... well, most of them, anyway.
 
pyro68 said:
At the end of the season when you clean the chimney, disconnect the pipe from the stove & you can see the top of the combustor box, on either side there is a space, put the shop vac hose down each side & pull any ash out that has accumulated back there during the season.
Click to expand...

Just be careful and gentle, I've heard of folks sucking up pieces of the combustor with the vac.
 
The newer Leydens have cleanout plugs inside the firebox on both sides of the combuster. They are there to keep you from having to disconnect at the collar.
I found them handy back in the spring to clean out ash in impossible to reach places.

No stove out there is trouble free from day one.
Believe me, I've still a lot to learn about the Leyden.

Some of those old downdrafting posts were quite enjoyable to read through. Good personalities in there. Even had a few posts myself, but I'm not seeing much on this site anymore about thermonuclear events like with the VC's (wasn't it?). My only thermonuclear came when a leaky door gasket lit off a bunch of uncharred, green splits about an hour into the burn. Wood has dried and gasket has been replaced since.
 
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