Looking for a wood insert - some questions

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pkelecy

New Member
Dec 9, 2010
20
Southern Indiana
My wife and I enjoy a nice fire, but we have not been very happy with the fireplace in our home. The fires never look that bright, and they don't generate much heat. In fact, the room often gets colder due to the draft! So we would like to install an insert to fix that and maybe help lower the heating bills to boot. I've spent the last week or so researching insert options (for wood) and reading through the posts and articles here. This is really a great site with a lot of good information. But I have a few questions I haven't been able to find answers to.

1. We would like an insert with a large viewing area. Based on that criteria, units like the VC Merrimack (350 sq.in), VC Montipelier (280 sq in), Buck Stove 91 (~270 sq. in), Quadra-Fire Voyageur (~275 sq.in), and some others looks like good possibilities. However, the units with the larger viewing areas also tend to have larger fireboxes and heat output. Since this will go in an average size living room (15'x20', 8' ceiling), my concern is that a nice fire pleasant to look at may make the room too hot! There are a couple of open doorways (one 4'x7' and the other 3'x7') that lead to other rooms, but I'm not sure these would be enough to keep things comfortable. Is this a legitimate concern? I ask because some of the BTU/hr ratings listed for these units are pretty impressive (50,000 to 75,000!). I assume those figures are for a fully loaded unit, but I thought I read that running a larger unit with only a little wood was not very efficient or advised. Perhaps that's wrong, but I thought I would ask just in case that needs to factor into our selection. Would a cat unit be better in this regard?

2. All of these units offer optional trim pieces or "surrounds" to cover the gap between the insert and fireplace opening. I personally don't care for the look of most, as to my eye, they tend to look disproportionally large compared to the unit. If I were building the house new (or had a lot of money to blow) I would put in a zero clearance unit. But alas... Anyway, as an option I've noticed some manufacturers offer "trimmable" surrounds that allow it to be fitted within the fireplace opening. That gives it more of the built-in look that I like, and so I'm thinking of going that direction. I've only come across a couple of models that offer that though (Enviro Venice and Avalon Perfect Fit). Assuming I would like more options, is there any reason the standard steel surround that most manufacturers offer couldn't be trimmed as well?

I'll stop there for now. Thanks for any help or suggestions. I appreciate it.

Pat
 
If the heat could get some assistance it may convect to other rooms. Sometimes this takes a fan to get it moving. If not, size is a legitimate concern. I'd stick with about a 2 cu ft stove in that case. A cat unit will burn steadily and cleanly at a lower output, but will have less of a fire display. Steel surrounds can usually be cut down, but that is not so easy with a cast iron surround.
 
BeGreen,

Thanks for the response.

With regard to moving the air to other rooms, there is a fairly large return vent in the room (located near the floor on the opposite wall from the fireplace). Not the ideal location, but I think the ducts runs vertically (connects to the second story of the house) and so perhaps the vent could be moved higher. Having it near the ceiling would be ideal I expect. Then it could suck the heat into the central HVAC system and distribute it to other rooms by just running the fan. I guess I'll have to see how much of an issue the heat output is and cross that bridge if/when needed.

I've now narrow down the choices to the following:

VC Merrimack
VC Montpelier
Quadra-Fire Voyageur
Fuego Flame (possibly)

I like the look of the VC products, but reviews have been mixed (fan noise, in particular, seems to be an issue with these). Quadra-Fire products appear to be good, but I haven't seen much on the Voyageur (new model). But I expect it will perform up to Quadra's other product, so I'm strongly leaning that way. I just came across the Fuego Flame today and am intrigued by its design. No blower (uses natural convection) but still claims to have high efficiency. No blower would avoid the need to run an electrical cable and allow the unit to work during power outages. They also say it can use natural gas (which is available in the fireplace), and advertise a large viewing area. So I'm going to look into it further, but expect it's not as good as it appears.

With regard to trimming the surround, I have a friend with a machine shop who could do it (even with cast iron). I think the trick is starting with a surround that is fairly plain so it doesn't look like it's been cut after it has been. One question though. How important is it that the fireplace opening be tightly sealed around the insert? Does this effect its operation?

Thanks again.
 
To make it even more confusing look at the hampton hi300, its the same as a regency 2400 with a pretty face...its in my avatar. I heat 1400sq ft with it no problem but can also burn small fires in it when needed. Its also a pretty big window...
 
Hi there and welcome to the forums. Typically when someone looks at an insert they look to put the biggest one they can fit in the fireplace. Of course you have to look at your budget etc... but a small insert in a large fireplace kinda looks funny. You can always control a large insert, its hard to get more heat out of a small one.

You are right, the BTU value is on the high burn. As a rule most users dont run their unit with the air control fully open and with chugging wood in the insert as if it was a steam locomotive. You should be able to put in a fair amount of wood, turn down the air control and enjoy the show, the heat and the long burn time.

If large viewing area is important to you, you may want to look at an Osburn 1800 or 2200. They are the only bay window wood burning left in the market as far as I'm aware. http://www.osburn-mfg.com/product.aspx?CategoId=7&Id=246
However, all the brands you are looking at are excellent and will provide you with many years of heating and viewing enjoyment.

You can always trim the surrounds. However, measure twice and make sure everything will fit since as soon as you cut it mistakes will be expensive.

I hope this helps.
 
FryeBug, - Thanks for the reply. I did look at the Osburn products when researching this. Although they do have a large window area (the 2200 especially) I prefer the look of something a little more flush to the fireplace. At least that's my inclination at that point. I find my self going back and forth between some of these though. It get even worse when I start considering the different finishes and surround styles available. Too many choices!
 
Check the ductwork insulation. The temps of woodstove heated air are not that high over ambient. Often, by the time this 75-80 °F air is passed through the duct system with its heat losses, the net gain is zero or even negative.

You might also want to look at the Lopi Declaration and Avalon Perfect Fit inserts if flush face is desired.
 
Well if you have a spouse she'll no doubt have an opinion. I do like cast iron flush face myself.

All the best in your quest and please let us know what you picked. Also shAre some pics when you're done.
 
Buy the biggest one that will fit in your fireplace. The Btu outputs listed are for the free standing version. The inserts don't put out quite as much. The fan is adjustable too. Also I have a ranch house and even without fans my temperature swing from the center of the house where the insert is to the far away rooms is only about 10 degrees. So my living room is 75 and the bedrooms are 65. That's perfect for me.
 
Deciding what size stove to go with is a tough decision, I went through that last year when I bought an insert for my home. So here s my advice. In my opinion there is alot of fuzzy math that goes into the square footage heated and btu's generated numbers that stove manufacturers claim. Btus come from the wood not the stove, so heat output has far more to do with how much wood you have in the stove than it does what particular stove you have. You live in a climate where you get some cold weather I believe so I would choose a stove where your homes square footage falls in the middle of the range the unit claims it will heat. My home is 1500 sq ft and my insert is rated to 2000 sq ft, and I am really glad I didn't get a smaller stove. In my experience freestanding stoves are much more likely to be uncontrollably warm than inserts. For instance I would guess that without the blower running my stove produces at least 30% less heat than the freestanding version of the same stove. You mentioned concern building smaller fires , but there is nothing wrong with not loading your stove up and having a small fire when you don't need alot of heat. A small fire can be as efficient as a big fire. You just want to avoid situations where you put wood in and cut the air to soon and cause the fire to smolder. For the most part efficiency comes from having dry wood and knowing how to work your air controls. And heat output is managed through how much wood you feed the stove. You also mentioned looking at an insert without blowers, I would not even consider an insert without a blower, it makes all the difference in the world. You may find some people that say they are happy with their blower-less inserts but I doubt you will find anyone that has a blower and doesn't use it all the time. Get a blower. I know I am rambling a bit here but I just wanted to give you some info that will help you make the right decision for your home, I'd hate to see you worry too much about overheating and then spend a good chunk of money on a stove that ends up being mostly decorative when you can get a properly sized unit that will give you the ambiance you want and still be a serious heater. Good luck
 
I've got a Lopi Freedom which is on the larger side for inserts. It was a tough call between the PE Summit, the Lopi and the Regency. My wife didn't like the cast iron look, which I thought would go better with the the whole French country thing but whatever. Lots of glass was the most important thing for me. Stack stack the stoves together and there's not a huge difference. When I first saw the Regency I thought it was the Lopi, and actually prefered it because the top was uninhibited by the bypass damper (now I'm glad I've got it). They all burn wood, need to be fed and burped like a baby, diaper changed. But they never grow up, even after the new stove smell has burned off and they're no longer cute. If you're ready for a high-maintenence pet then great. I wish people obsessed over their boilers and furnaces like they do their fireplaces. We'd have a more efficient nation.

My setup is not ideal, with a big room on the long end of the house and bedrooms upstairs. Because of that I need to use the blower in the insert and I've got an ugly pedestal fan in the middle of my kitchen floor blowing towards the stove. That being said I can still heat my whole house (2600sqft) with the insert down to about 0 degrees, with a temp difference of 4 degrees. How? Time. I keep the downstairs at 60 and the upstairs at 65 (sounds extreme but I'm a softy compare to some). I light a fire once a day, then stuff it for the night and this will boost it from 60 to about 72, which will keep the hosue stable to about 63 till I get home tomorrow. On the weekends its all wood, but it takes about a day to get the upstairs from 64 to 66, then another day from 66 to 68, so by Sunday the whole house has evened out and I'm trying to keep the fire as low as possible so we can still sit in the family room without sweating!

This is NOT central heating. I just can't do it. My house was built for basboards and not a wood-burning appliance. My big savings comes from lowering the temp of the house and zone heating with the wood stove (just like those Amish heaters!) Also, I get a majority of my wood for free, otherwise it would be cheaper for me to burn oil @ 3.00/gallon
 
You might want to also look at the Jotuls, largest viewing area and beautiful surrounds. Often considered one of the better lookers, and they have been in business for over 100 years. I like the Lopis too. The Quadrafires you have to watch that the side windows get dirty, from what I understand.
 
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