Woodburner install-how's it look? And a few questions.

gapman789 · Dec 12, 2010

Well, here it is….Just did the install yesterday….No fire as of yet…wanted to check in here lst and I had a question or two for yas.

First, notice the pipe going from the stove to the wall…I know it looks like stove pipe going thru the wall, but there is 4” of double wall insulated pipe on the inside of the wall plus 4” of double wall pipe going thru the wall, and that 12” piece of stove pipe is just being used to give me 4’ of clearance from the wall…If I removed that inside black ring, you’d be able to see the double wall pipe.

Question is, is the stove pipe an issue for being over top of the double wall? Or should I get an 8” to 6” connector coming out of the stove with 6” stove pipe instead of 8” and then meet up with the double wall pipe going thru the wall? Make sense?
The more I think about it, common sense tells me that the stove pipe must be connected to the inner wall of the double wall insulated pipe.

And, does the height of my chimney look ok? It is very close to 10’ away from the roof if I measure over horizontally from the cap to the roof.
Also, that is 16"x16” of a heavy galvanized steel on either side of the wall where the pipe goes thru.
I also removed all the wall insulation in that 16” area.

And, lol, I realize my support under the cleanout isn’t optimal..but it is decorative stone, right?
There has to be some type of support at that 90 degree . I’ll have to rig another support to move the block to get to the cleanout when the time comes.

How’s it look to the pros?

ecocavalier02 · Dec 12, 2010

dont know if it might cause a draft problem cuz ur chimney is so short plus the horizontal piece coming off the stove ya might want a longer flue but that being said try it out it may work out fine for ya.

48rob · Dec 12, 2010

I'm not experienced enough to offer stove install advice, but as a builder, I would be concerned with ground heave, and what that may do to your pipe connections.

The blocks holding the pipe, sitting on the ground, can/will rise and fall as much as 2-3" when moisture in the soil expands and contracts with cold/thaw.
You may also want to install some flashing around the pipe as it comes through the wall, to prevent moisture from getting behind the siding and damaging the building.

Looks like a big stove, you should be warm!

Rob

gapman789 · Dec 12, 2010

48rob said:
I'm not experienced enough to offer stove install advice, but as a builder, I would be concerned with ground heave, and what that may do to your pipe connections.

The blocks holding the pipe, sitting on the ground, can/will rise and fall as much as 2-3" when moisture in the soil expands and contracts with cold/thaw.
You may also want to install some flashing around the pipe as it comes through the wall, to prevent moisture from getting behind the siding and damaging the building.

Looks like a big stove, you should be warm!

Rob

Hey Rob. Yeah, I know the block support looks sketchy at best.
I'm in the concrete construction biz of 21 yrs., so I know exactly what you mean.

The best option for me to fix that issue would be to dig a concrete footer/pier 24"-30" and then have a support from the concrete footer to the pipe.
I may just do that today while the ground is not frozen.

And the flashing too. I should have put another piece of sheet metal over the 16" opening before I connected all the pipe.
I'll have to do a 2pc. flashing install and overlap it like the siding. That should work fine.

karl · Dec 12, 2010

That horizontal run looks crazy long. Is it sloped up at all?

gapman789 · Dec 12, 2010

ecocavalier02 said:
dont know if it might cause a draft problem cuz ur chimney is so short plus the horizontal piece coming off the stove ya might want a longer flue but that being said try it out it may work out fine for ya.

I have (2) more 3' sections of double wall pipe, but if I were to extend the chimney, how would I support/brace it? I'd have a 20' 2'x4' going from the peak of the roof, horizontally over to the top of the chimney. That doesn't seem possible.

That last 3' section on the chimney worries me a bit as it is, because there is no brace on it.

Not sure what else I could do....like you said, light it up and see how it does.

Thanks

gapman789 · Dec 12, 2010

karl said:
That horizontal run looks crazy long. Is it sloped up at all?

The horizontal run from the stove to the wall is 4', plus 2' of double wall pipe. Approx. 6' of horizontal run.

And no, there is no slope. That would be a big problem if you're suggesting I needed slope for this to work properly.

watchamakalit · Dec 12, 2010

gapman789 said:
karl said:

That horizontal run looks crazy long. Is it sloped up at all?

Click to expand...

The horizontal run from the stove to the wall is 4', plus 2' of double wall pipe. Approx. 6' of horizontal run.

And no, there is no slope. That would be a big problem if you're suggesting I needed slope for this to work properly.

Looks like an easy problem to solve. Just pull the concrete block out from under the stove legs. The way it was explained to me was that smoke is just the opposite of poop. The old addage that "poop" only flows down hill needs to be reversed for smoke. Smoke only flows up hill and will not siphon its way downhill and back up again.

gapman789 · Dec 12, 2010

watchamakalit said:
gapman789 said:

karl said:

That horizontal run looks crazy long. Is it sloped up at all?

Click to expand...

The horizontal run from the stove to the wall is 4', plus 2' of double wall pipe. Approx. 6' of horizontal run.

And no, there is no slope. That would be a big problem if you're suggesting I needed slope for this to work properly.

Click to expand...

Looks like an easy problem to solve. Just pull the concrete block out from under the stove legs. The way it was explained to me was that smoke is just the opposite of poop. The old addage that "poop" only flows down hill needs to be reversed for smoke. Smoke only flows up hill and will not siphon its way downhill and back up again.

The stone pavers under the stove are 2.5" thick. That would create enough slope?
I would then have to get one of those rotating/flexible/adjusting elbows correct?
The pipes may fit together enough to not need that though.

The first thing I thought was, I would have to raise the holes in the wall and the entire chimney to get the slope on the horizontal pipe.
But if 2.5" of slope will be sufficient, then that's what I'll do.

watchamakalit · Dec 12, 2010

gapman789 said:
watchamakalit said:

gapman789 said:

karl said:

That horizontal run looks crazy long. Is it sloped up at all?

Click to expand...

The horizontal run from the stove to the wall is 4', plus 2' of double wall pipe. Approx. 6' of horizontal run.

And no, there is no slope. That would be a big problem if you're suggesting I needed slope for this to work properly.

Click to expand...

Looks like an easy problem to solve. Just pull the concrete block out from under the stove legs. The way it was explained to me was that smoke is just the opposite of poop. The old addage that "poop" only flows down hill needs to be reversed for smoke. Smoke only flows up hill and will not siphon its way downhill and back up again.

Click to expand...

The stone pavers under the stove are 2.5" thick. That would create enough slope?
I would then have to get one of those rotating/flexible/adjusting elbows correct?
The pipes may fit together enough to not need that though.

The first thing I thought was, I would have to raise the holes in the wall and the entire chimney to get the slope on the horizontal pipe.
But if 2.5" of slope will be sufficient, then that's what I'll do.

I am by no means a professional installer so please don't take my word as gospel, just my opinion. I would think that 2.5" over 6' would be better than not having the rise at all. I would probably pull the pavers and fire it up and see how it drafts before I decided to move the hole in the wall.

Backwoods Savage · Dec 12, 2010

gapman789 said:
karl said:

That horizontal run looks crazy long. Is it sloped up at all?

Click to expand...

The horizontal run from the stove to the wall is 4', plus 2' of double wall pipe. Approx. 6' of horizontal run.

And no, there is no slope. That would be a big problem if you're suggesting I needed slope for this to work properly.

1/4" rise per foot of horizontal is required. We went 1/2" per foot and have no problems.

The problem you no doubt will have is first getting a draft established and second, back puffing and third, every time you open that firebox door expect lots of smoke and gases to come shooting out.

cityhick · Dec 12, 2010

Just remember....you asked.......it looks like poop

gapman789 · Dec 12, 2010

Backwoods Savage said:
gapman789 said:

karl said:

That horizontal run looks crazy long. Is it sloped up at all?

Click to expand...

The horizontal run from the stove to the wall is 4', plus 2' of double wall pipe. Approx. 6' of horizontal run.

And no, there is no slope. That would be a big problem if you're suggesting I needed slope for this to work properly.

Click to expand...

1/4" rise per foot of horizontal is required. We went 1/2" per foot and have no problems.

The problem you no doubt will have is first getting a draft established and second, back puffing and third, every time you open that firebox door expect lots of smoke and gases to come shooting out.

Sounds good. Then 2.5" of slope in 6' should be good.
Thanks

gapman789 · Dec 12, 2010

cityhick said:
Just remember....you asked.......it looks like poop

lol. Thanks for the input.
I surely wasn't talking about the overall aesthetics of my setup, moreso the functionality.

This is obviously in a garage of which I have many motorcycles. Just trying to have some warmth to do routine maintenance on my bikes before racing season begins in the spring.

The stove is currently sitting where the white and black filing cabiniets are.

My stove isn't pretty enough for my garage? It makes my bikes look bad, I know. LMAO

DWW68 · Dec 12, 2010

just like the rest, not a pro. but i will piont out what i see.
1 support
2 slope on horizonal pipe
3 Stove with 8" flue running into a 6" chimney
4 should have connector to join single and double wall pipe
5 clearance issue with single wall pipe

a roof support could be used if chimney needs to go higher

not to say you cant get a fire going in the stove and have it work, but things could be made a lot safer
good luck

cityhick · Dec 12, 2010

what part of ohio do you live in....where do you race....

gapman789 · Dec 12, 2010

DWW68 said:
just like the rest, not a pro. but i will piont out what i see.
1 support
2 slope on horizonal pipe
3 Stove with 8" flue running into a 6" chimney
4 should have connector to join single and double wall pipe
5 clearance issue with single wall pipe

a roof support could be used if chimney needs to go higher

not to say you cant get a fire going in the stove and have it work, but things could be made a lot safer
good luck

Duly noted.

I will fix the support with a concrete footer 24"-30" deep.
I will remove the pavers from under the stove legs giving me approx. 5/8" of slope per ft.
I'm going to get the correct piping/connector for the flue going into the 6" chimney.

As far as the clearance issue with the single wall pipe goes: Are you referring to the distance of the stove from the wall, or the amount of the double wall pipe that is protruding thru the inside of the wall? There is about 4" of double wall pipe coming thru the wall. The 8" stove pipe is sleeved over top of the double wall.
I do have more double wall pipe that I can use for the flue? I feel that would take away some of the heat that I would be getting from the stovepipe itself.

Definitely don't want to raise the chimney any higher if at possible. How will I know if the chimney isn't high enough? Fire won't burn worth a damn?
That roof has minimal pitch on it. If I measure over from the cap to the roof, I have every bit of 10'. Or is that a non-issue?

Thanks for the advice guys. That's why I haven't fired this thing up yet.

gapman789 · Dec 12, 2010

cityhick said:
what part of ohio do you live in....where do you race....

cincinnati.

Daytona, FL
Savannah, GA
Jennings County, FL
Talladega, AL
Birmingham, AL
Nashville, TN
Danville, VA
Grand Rapids, MI
Salt Lake City, UT
Atlanta, GA
Mansfield, OH
Summit Point, WV
St. Louis, IL

I'm leaving some out I'm sure...
Been to alot more cities and tracks that don't have races anymore.

Dakotas Dad · Dec 12, 2010

gapman789 said:
cityhick said:

what part of ohio do you live in....where do you race....

Click to expand...

cincinnati.

Daytona, FL
Savannah, GA
Jennings County, FL
Talladega, AL
Birmingham, AL
Nashville, TN
Danville, VA
Grand Rapids, MI
Salt Lake City, UT
Atlanta, GA
Mansfield, OH
Summit Point, WV
St. Louis, IL

I'm leaving some out I'm sure...
Been to alot more cities and tracks that don't have races anymore.

never raced in the US, but done a few track days in my time.
Putnam Park is nice, and not to far for you if you have not been there, done track days at a few on your list, and Hallett by Tulsa is very nice, or at least, was. Did my first ever track day there in '86. Haven't done one now in a couple years, getting old and scary..lol But the SuperHawk remains in TD prep, just in case.

gapman789 · Dec 12, 2010

Dakotas Dad said:
gapman789 said:

cityhick said:

what part of ohio do you live in....where do you race....

Click to expand...

cincinnati.

Daytona, FL
Savannah, GA
Jennings County, FL
Talladega, AL
Birmingham, AL
Nashville, TN
Danville, VA
Grand Rapids, MI
Salt Lake City, UT
Atlanta, GA
Mansfield, OH
Summit Point, WV
St. Louis, IL

I'm leaving some out I'm sure...
Been to alot more cities and tracks that don't have races anymore.

Click to expand...

never raced in the US, but done a few track days in my time.
Putnam Park is nice, and not to far for you if you have not been there, done track days at a few on your list, and Hallett by Tulsa is very nice, or at least, was. Did my first ever track day there in '86. Haven't done one now in a couple years, getting old and scary..lol But the SuperHawk remains in TD prep, just in case.

Did my lst trackday at Putnam in '94. Started racing the next year. I still go to Putnam twice a year with a group here in Cincinnati.
The Putnams and Grattans are ok, but when you go to a world class facility like MILLER MOTORSPORTS PARK in Salt Lake City and the country club-esque BARBER in Leeds, AL, you really get a taste of the roadracing good life.

Too bad all the U.S. tracks aren't like the Euro and World circuits.

begreen · Dec 12, 2010

Hopefully this garage is not tied to the house. The through the wall connection is not safe, nor is the single-wall pipe clearance. Also, the tee is not supported (temporary blocks are not a permanent support) and it's going to be a pita to clean.

gapman789 · Dec 12, 2010

BeGreen said:
Hopefully this garage is not tied to the house. The through the wall connection is not safe, nor is the single-wall pipe clearance. Also, the tee is not supported (temporary blocks are not a permanent support) and it's going to be a pita to clean.

As stated, I'm gonig to dig a 24"-30" concrete footer under the elbow/cleanout on the chimney. Then support the elbow with a steel brace of sorts.
As far as cleanout goes, I don't believe it would need to be cleaned but once a year. The garage will only be heated intermittenly for a few months during the winter.

I also have another 3' section of double wall that I can put in between the stove and the wall. That would eliminate all the stovepipe except for 1' of it, and that will be directly out of the stove.

The garage is detached about 50' from the house.

DWW68 · Dec 12, 2010

gapman789 said:
DWW68 said:

just like the rest, not a pro. but i will piont out what i see.
1 support
2 slope on horizonal pipe
3 Stove with 8" flue running into a 6" chimney
4 should have connector to join single and double wall pipe
5 clearance issue with single wall pipe

a roof support could be used if chimney needs to go higher

not to say you cant get a fire going in the stove and have it work, but things could be made a lot safer
good luck

Click to expand...

Duly noted.

I will fix the support with a concrete footer 24"-30" deep.
I will remove the pavers from under the stove legs giving me approx. 5/8" of slope per ft.
I'm going to get the correct piping/connector for the flue going into the 6" chimney.

As far as the clearance issue with the single wall pipe goes: Are you referring to the distance of the stove from the wall, or the amount of the double wall pipe that is protruding thru the inside of the wall? There is about 4" of double wall pipe coming thru the wall. The 8" stove pipe is sleeved over top of the double wall.
I do have more double wall pipe that I can use for the flue? I feel that would take away some of the heat that I would be getting from the stovepipe itself.

Definitely don't want to raise the chimney any higher if at possible. How will I know if the chimney isn't high enough? Fire won't burn worth a damn?
That roof has minimal pitch on it. If I measure over from the cap to the roof, I have every bit of 10'. Or is that a non-issue?

Thanks for the advice guys. That's why I haven't fired this thing up yet.

Instead of a footer how about making a wall bracket out of angle iron to support the chimney
Single wall pipe should have 18" clearance to combustables. Even with 4" of double wall sticking through the wall that is not enough. Add your 3' section. You may also want to support that in some way
If the chimney is not high enough you wont have much draft measuring over ten foot, the top of your chimney should be at least 2' higher at that point

Renovation · Dec 12, 2010

Welcome!

gapman789 said:
does the height of my chimney look ok? It is very close to 10’ away from the roof if I measure over horizontally from the cap to the roof.

No, it is too short for safety, draft and code--which says you need to be at least 2" higher than the height which makes it level with the highest thing within 10'. It looks like you have a 4:12 roof, which means your chimney needs to be at least 2' higher.

Save yourself problems and save your bikes by:

0. Increasing your chimney to the proper height for draw, safety, and code.

1. Buying or fabricating a proper chimney support box tied to your *building* (wall), not the ground.

2. Make sure your wall penetration has the proper clearances and materials--buying a proper support box would remedy 1 and 2.

3. Create proper rise of at least 1/4 inch per foot on the horizontal section.

4. Use double-wall stovepipe inside.

HTH, and good luck!

Mcbride · Dec 13, 2010

gapman789 said:
DWW68 said:

just like the rest, not a pro. but i will piont out what i see.
1 support
2 slope on horizonal pipe
3 Stove with 8" flue running into a 6" chimney
4 should have connector to join single and double wall pipe
5 clearance issue with single wall pipe

a roof support could be used if chimney needs to go higher

not to say you cant get a fire going in the stove and have it work, but things could be made a lot safer
good luck

Click to expand...

Duly noted.

I will fix the support with a concrete footer 24"-30" deep.
I will remove the pavers from under the stove legs giving me approx. 5/8" of slope per ft.
I'm going to get the correct piping/connector for the flue going into the 6" chimney.

As far as the clearance issue with the single wall pipe goes: Are you referring to the distance of the stove from the wall, or the amount of the double wall pipe that is protruding thru the inside of the wall? There is about 4" of double wall pipe coming thru the wall. The 8" stove pipe is sleeved over top of the double wall.
I do have more double wall pipe that I can use for the flue? I feel that would take away some of the heat that I would be getting from the stovepipe itself.

Definitely don't want to raise the chimney any higher if at possible. How will I know if the chimney isn't high enough? Fire won't burn worth a damn?
That roof has minimal pitch on it. If I measure over from the cap to the roof, I have every bit of 10'. Or is that a non-issue?

Thanks for the advice guys. That's why I haven't fired this thing up yet.

Not too sound picky, but is 24 to 30 inches going to get you below the frost line for your area?
If not go deeper, the bottom of any footing has to be deeper than the frost will go to stop heaving.

Nice bikes!

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