When using an insert, should a person have a CO detector in the room or is there any danger?
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Carbon Monoxide question
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If you are burning anything anywhere in your house you need a CO detector in the room with the appliance, and in the hallway outside any room where people sleep. Any solid fuel burner is worse (then for example gas) as CO is a natural bi-product of the combustion.
firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
I would put a carbon monoxide detector (or two) in my home if I have a heating appliance that burns solid fuel, liquid fuel or gas fuel . . . and of course a wood insert does burn solid fuel. I believe most manufacturers suggest putting the CO detector in the hallway outside the bedrooms . . . at one time . . . and it may still be the case . . . they also stated that if you put a CO detector near a likely CO source (i.e. gas range, propane hot water heater, oil boiler, woodstove, etc.) that it be at least 10-15 feet away.
Every time I get a blast of smoke out of my stove, my monoxide meter will register 10 PPM on the next floor up... I think CO becomes dangerous around 60 PPM.. Check out the Kidde Nighthawk Carbon Monoxide meter/detector it is a good unit that actually has a read-out...
madrone
Minister of Fire
I've got one across the room from the stove on the wall by the staircase leading up to the bedrooms, and one upstairs in a bedroom, (to compliment the 7 smoke detectors.) Seems like that should cover both the wood stove and the NG furnace. I bought one after my original oil furnace cracked its exchanger and started leaking flue gases into the ducts. Wish I'd had one before it happened. We were fine, but I might have figured out what was going on sooner.
That said, I've always considered the furnace the dangerous one. I've seen it suggested here, and had the thought myself, that the smell of wood smoke in the house would likely accompany any leaking of CO into the living space. Anything to that, Jake?
That said, I've always considered the furnace the dangerous one. I've seen it suggested here, and had the thought myself, that the smell of wood smoke in the house would likely accompany any leaking of CO into the living space. Anything to that, Jake?
Fsappo
Minister of Fire
Dakotas Dad
Minister of Fire
We have one in the entry way, next to the thermostat across from the stove, and one at the top of the stairs, where all three bedroom doors are. We actually put them in before we had a wood stove, during the '09 ice storm when we were using a kero wick heater to keep the house livable for 10 days. (home depot was sold out of tons of stuff, but never smoke detectors or CO detectors..lol) But I think having them with the stove is a good idea too. Certainly can't hurt. One of mine is battery only, just a simple sensor, the other, in the stairwell, is plugged in, with battery backup and a ppm readout. Never not been a zero.
madrone
Minister of Fire
madrone
Minister of Fire
firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
madrone said:
I suppose CO could be accompanied by smoke (although if you are sleeping there is a chance you may not smell the smoke -- of course the smoke detectors should pick it up) . . . then again it is also possible that if there was a bed of coals and a reverse draft situation you may have CO in your home and not smell anything . . . and the smoke detectors may fail to pick up the problem.
That said . . . I've been a firefighter since 1990 . . . which according to my limited math skills are all 20 of my fingers and toes -- I'm not like some folks from Waldo County, Maine who have an extra toe or two due to those bad genetics and I never lost any due to haybaling accidents . . . anyways . . . in all this time I have had a number of CO calls and quite frankly exactly ZERO of them have been due to issues with woodstoves, inserts, pelletstoves, etc. . . . now folks bringing in their gasoline generators inside the home, folks with cracked heat exchangers in their oil furnaces, issues with propane appliances -- that's a whole other story.
ckarotka
Minister of Fire
I hope this isn't my second post here the first kinda disappeared.
Mount the CO detector near the floor. CO is heavier than room air and will concentrate on the floor first. A ceiling mounted one will provide interesting thoughts of why it didn't go off when your lying on your back staring up at it.
As a Paramedic I've never been to a call for CO with a wood stove involved. Mr. Murphy will find a way.
Symptoms:
Nausea
Fatigue
confusion
Head ache in a band around ....well you head
Cherry red lips is a late sign you need to act quickly
Treatment:
Call 911 and let Jake show up with his fancy meter to find the source first
If your feeling sick request a ambulance we can treat minor symptoms on scene with 100% O2
Leave the house
opening windows is up for debate cuz it makes it harder for the Fire guys to locate the source, sometimes
Serious cases need to go to a barometric chamber.
CO the silent killer, Can't smell it, taste it or see it.
You could get a bird like minors used to, when it stops tweeting..........get out!!
Mount the CO detector near the floor. CO is heavier than room air and will concentrate on the floor first. A ceiling mounted one will provide interesting thoughts of why it didn't go off when your lying on your back staring up at it.
As a Paramedic I've never been to a call for CO with a wood stove involved. Mr. Murphy will find a way.
Symptoms:
Nausea
Fatigue
confusion
Head ache in a band around ....well you head
Cherry red lips is a late sign you need to act quickly
Treatment:
Call 911 and let Jake show up with his fancy meter to find the source first
If your feeling sick request a ambulance we can treat minor symptoms on scene with 100% O2
Leave the house
opening windows is up for debate cuz it makes it harder for the Fire guys to locate the source, sometimes
Serious cases need to go to a barometric chamber.
CO the silent killer, Can't smell it, taste it or see it.
You could get a bird like minors used to, when it stops tweeting..........get out!!
Dakotas Dad
Minister of Fire
ckarotka said:
Actually, CO is so close to the density of "air" (0.9657 vs "1" for air) that it freely mixes with any currents and the manufacturers of my two sensors tell you it doesn't matter where you put the detector height wise.
From a wiki article:
According to the 2005 edition of the carbon monoxide guidelines, NFPA 720 [8], published by the National Fire Protection Association, sections 5.1.1.1 and 5.1.1.2, all CO detectors “shall be centrally located outside of each separate sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of the bedrooms,” and each detector “shall be located on the wall, ceiling or other location as specified in the installation instructions that accompany the unit.”
Since 1 of mine is designed to plug directly into a wall outlet.. I looked all over my house and have no wall outlets at ceiling level or on the the ceiling itself..
ckarotka
Minister of Fire
Thats why it has a plug on it, to get it closer to the floor. It's the manufacturers why of getting them off the ceiling. The plug is a battery back up....Yes? Smoke detectors don't have plugs but can be hard wired. I'll stick with what I was taught and seen.
bostock
Member
when did the CO detector thing get going? I only ask because as a kid growing up (70's and 80's), we burned all through the winter (Upstate NY) and so did all of our neighbors, friends, family etc...never even HEARD of a CO problem, or even a CO detector. I only jumped back into the woodburning world recently and it just seems that, while we all know CO can kill, of course - how likely is it to have probs with our woodburning? Don't get me wrong - i'm buying two detectors this weekend 
but, i think there may be some smoke/mirrors within the industry too. I won't challenge it, because i have a family at home - but i think there is a little bit there.
but, i think there may be some smoke/mirrors within the industry too. I won't challenge it, because i have a family at home - but i think there is a little bit there.
Dakotas Dad
Minister of Fire
ckarotka said:
LOL, ok stick with it...
from the manual for 1 of my detectors:
120v Battery backup
Recommended Installation Locations
CO alarms should be mounted in or
near bedrooms and living areas. It is
recommended that you install a Kidde
CO alarm on each level of your home.
When choosing your installation locations,
make sure you can hear the
alarm from all sleeping areas. If you
install only one CO alarm in your
home, install it near bedrooms, not in the basement or furnace room.
• When wall mounting, place out of reach of children. Under no circumstances
should children be allowed to handle the CO alarm.
• Placing the alarm at eye level allows for optimum monitoring of the
digital display.
and for the other one, battery only:
Where To Install Your Kidde CO Alarm
The following suggestions are intended to help you with
the placement and installation of your Kidde CO alarm.
• Place out of the reach of children. Under no circumstance
should children be allowed to handle the CO alarm.
• Install in a bedroom or hallway located close to the
sleeping area. Take special care to verify the alarm can
be heard in sleeping areas.
• It is recommended that a CO alarm be installed on each
level of a multilevel home.
• Locate at least 5 feet away from all fuel burning appliances.
• Placing at eye level allows for optimum monitoring of
the red and green indicator lights.
ckarotka
Minister of Fire
Dakotas Dad said:
No biggie, I think the point that one is in need was made, and thats the important part. How it was taught to me may have been wrong. I looked in all my books and couldn't find MY answer, but some Fire Chief or higher exp person than me told us (my class) that years ago.
Dakotas Dad
Minister of Fire
bostock said:when did the CO detector thing get going? I only ask because as a kid growing up (70's and 80's), we burned all through the winter (Upstate NY) and so did all of our neighbors, friends, family etc...never even HEARD of a CO problem, or even a CO detector. I only jumped back into the woodburning world recently and it just seems that, while we all know CO can kill, of course - how likely is it to have probs with our woodburning? Don't get me wrong - i'm buying two detectors this weekend
Don't know, I do know as a kid growing up in the 60's and 70's in northern Minnesota, almost no one I knew had smoke detectors.. and everybody had wood heat and gas/oil backup, or vise-versa, my guess is CO detectors came along a bit after smoke detectors became the norm.
That's not true at all. To have smoke the fire needs to be in the pyrolysis phase, which at the same time you are going to be producing plenty of heat to maintain a good draft so the chance of CO in that phase is pretty low. On the other hand in the charcoal stage the fire produces huge amounts of CO but doesn't produce anywhere near the same heat so the draft is significantly reduced and it wouldn't take a lot wrong to get it flowing in reverse and filling the house with scentless deadly invisible fumes.madrone said:
For more info on charcoal fumes see Charcoal-burning_suicide
SteveKG
Minister of Fire
bostock said:when did the CO detector thing get going? I only ask because as a kid growing up (70's and 80's), we burned all through the winter (Upstate NY) and so did all of our neighbors, friends, family etc...never even HEARD of a CO problem, or even a CO detector. I only jumped back into the woodburning world recently and it just seems that, while we all know CO can kill, of course - how likely is it to have probs with our woodburning? Don't get me wrong - i'm buying two detectors this weekend
When did anything start. As kids, we raced all over the neighborhood on roller skates with steel wheels, the type that clamped onto shoes. We wore nothing else other than the shoes and some shorts. We rode many, many miles on bicycles with flip-flops on feet and some shorts. We were in a southern, hot state. We lived on our bicycles.
Nowadays, people on skates and bikes are trussed up from helmets to boots and elbow and knee pads and hi-tech jackets and pants and....you get the drift. Far as I know, those things didn't even exist even if one wanted them.
I'm not saying it isn't necessary to have protection, stove or clothing or whatever, but it is a different attitude and different world.
madrone
Minister of Fire
Sounds like the risk from a wood stove is lower, but still possible. Certainly not a risk worth taking when detection is so cheap and easy. My wife was home with a newborn when the oil furnace came after us. Freaked me out. Now I can change a battery once a year and not spend any time worrying about it.
Found this about mounting location.
"Placement of a carbon monoxide detector:
Proper placement of a carbon monoxide detector is important. If you are installing only one carbon monoxide detector, the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) recommends it be located near the sleeping area, where it can wake you if you are asleep. Additional detectors on every level and in every bedroom of a home provides extra protection. Don't install carbon monoxide detectors directly beside or above fuel-burning appliances, as appliances may emit a small amount of carbon monoxide upon start-up. A detector should not be placed within fifteen feet of heating or cooking appliances or in or near very humid areas such as bathrooms. Manufactureres like First Alert suggest mounting the detector on the ceiling. "
Rob
"Placement of a carbon monoxide detector:
Proper placement of a carbon monoxide detector is important. If you are installing only one carbon monoxide detector, the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) recommends it be located near the sleeping area, where it can wake you if you are asleep. Additional detectors on every level and in every bedroom of a home provides extra protection. Don't install carbon monoxide detectors directly beside or above fuel-burning appliances, as appliances may emit a small amount of carbon monoxide upon start-up. A detector should not be placed within fifteen feet of heating or cooking appliances or in or near very humid areas such as bathrooms. Manufactureres like First Alert suggest mounting the detector on the ceiling. "
Rob
woodchip
Minister of Fire
From the 1st October over here it is a legal requirement to have a CO detector fitted when a solid fuel burning appliance is installed in any home.
Having read up on the side effects of CO poisoning, and suspect I may have suffered mild symptoms on a holiday in the past, I would probably travel with one and sleep with it in my hotel room wherever I stayed.
The biggest problem with CO poisoning is that it is cumulative, and mild symptoms are not that noticeable, headache, nausea, and feeling sleepy.
And that can be written down to all sorts of things if you sit in front of a fire at the end of a hard day with a glass or two of alcohol........ ;-)
Having read up on the side effects of CO poisoning, and suspect I may have suffered mild symptoms on a holiday in the past, I would probably travel with one and sleep with it in my hotel room wherever I stayed.
The biggest problem with CO poisoning is that it is cumulative, and mild symptoms are not that noticeable, headache, nausea, and feeling sleepy.
And that can be written down to all sorts of things if you sit in front of a fire at the end of a hard day with a glass or two of alcohol........ ;-)
woodchip
Minister of Fire
From the 1st October over here it is a legal requirement to have a CO detector fitted when a solid fuel burning appliance is installed in any home.
Having read up on the side effects of CO poisoning, and suspect I may have suffered mild symptoms on a holiday in the past, I would now probably travel with one and sleep with it in my hotel room wherever I stayed.
The biggest problem with CO poisoning is that it is cumulative, and mild symptoms are not that noticeable, headache, nausea, and feeling sleepy.
And that can be written down to all sorts of things if you sit in front of a fire at the end of a hard day with a glass or two of alcohol........ ;-)
Having read up on the side effects of CO poisoning, and suspect I may have suffered mild symptoms on a holiday in the past, I would now probably travel with one and sleep with it in my hotel room wherever I stayed.
The biggest problem with CO poisoning is that it is cumulative, and mild symptoms are not that noticeable, headache, nausea, and feeling sleepy.
And that can be written down to all sorts of things if you sit in front of a fire at the end of a hard day with a glass or two of alcohol........ ;-)
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