Eco Brick "Playing with Fire"

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M

Magus

New Member
Nov 17, 2010
65
Michigan
Hello fellow Burners

I decided while at Tractor Supply this morning to pick up some Eco Brick to try out and give everyone a rolling report.
I picked up 4 packs. $3.99 a pack...8 count to a pack.

I cleaned out my stove of all ashes.
The house was at 59 degrees F.
I made a starter fire with some paper and cedar kindling strips.
Made this in a tee-pee form.

At 10:13, I lit the fire. Within 2 minutes the Bricks (which were also in tee-pee form) caught fire.
I started with 3.
As soon as those caught I placed them N&S (on their sides)...then added another going N&S
I also put 2 going across E&W on top of those.

Within the next 5 minutes all were on fire with the door closed)
Within 20 minutes from starting the fire, the flue temp was at 300 degrees.

I let it climb to about 400 degrees then fully closed the flue damper.

almost an hr later it is 64 degrees in the house, the flue damper is still closed and the flue temp is back down to 300 degrees....the very low end of the burn zone.

I will try to keep everyone updated (if interested)

The reason I am trying the Eco Brick is to see if I can get 6hrs of burn time ( i.e clean overnight burn) and how many it will take to do so.
 
So far two good things have come from this.

Being that I am Green at wood burning I now know the following:

I now know what my flame is supposed to look like when I am burning dry "seasoned" wood
Seasoned cord wood will be easier to catch fire (not like the stuff I am using now)

Having the right chimney length is very important. My stove will probably perform better once I add the other 2ft of chimney pipe ( ordered that today)
I believe by adding the extra 2ft will create a better draft for my stove and make it easier to control the stove with either the stove damper or the flue damper.
 
If you have a low or slow draft situation, you would be well advised not to use the flue damper and control only by the stove damper. I assume you are speaking of the air inlet control. But yes if your draft is less than ideal adding 2 feet may make a big difference, if it is far less than ideal it may make a minor difference.

BTW how tall is your flue now?
 
I used them a couple of times to get my splits started. They burned hot for me if I put more than three in there I am reaching temps well over 700 on the stove top!
 
shawneyboy said:
If you have a low or slow draft situation, you would be well advised not to use the flue damper and control only by the stove damper. I assume you are speaking of the air inlet control. But yes if your draft is less than ideal adding 2 feet may make a big difference, if it is far less than ideal it may make a minor difference.

BTW how tall is your flue now?
Click to expand...

I have 6ft of black pipe (including offset) 5ft 8inches not including the offset of 33 degrees.
Plus 3ft section of triple wall chimney pipe.
So a total of 9ft of pipe run. The stove calls for a minimum of 11 ft all together so the two ft I have ordered will put me at the minimum.

As of 12:15 temp is still at 300 degrees for the flue.
House is at 68 degrees.
 
Wow that is a short flue. Adding a couple feet should help dramatically. Heck you are adding what 20-25 percent more. I would think at that short you are not passing the 10-2-3 rule. You may want to get it even higher than 11 feet.
 
Magus said:
Hello fellow Burners

I decided while at Tractor Supply this morning to pick up some Eco Brick to try out and give everyone a rolling report.
I picked up 4 packs. $3.99 a pack...8 count to a pack.

I cleaned out my stove of all ashes.
The house was at 59 degrees F.
I made a starter fire with some paper and cedar kindling strips.
Made this in a tee-pee form.

At 10:13, I lit the fire. Within 2 minutes the Bricks (which were also in tee-pee form) caught fire.
I started with 3.
As soon as those caught I placed them N&S (on their sides)...then added another going N&S
I also put 2 going across E&W on top of those.

Within the next 5 minutes all were on fire with the door closed)
Within 20 minutes from starting the fire, the flue temp was at 300 degrees.

I let it climb to about 400 degrees then fully closed the flue damper.

almost an hr later it is 64 degrees in the house, the flue damper is still closed and the flue temp is back down to 300 degrees....the very low end of the burn zone.

I will try to keep everyone updated (if interested)

The reason I am trying the Eco Brick is to see if I can get 6hrs of burn time ( i.e clean overnight burn) and how many it will take to do so.
Click to expand...


Magus, you can do yourself a favor from now on by never emptying your stove of all the ashes. Leave a couple inches at least and you will have better fires.
 
Backwoods Savage said:
Magus said:
Hello fellow Burners

I decided while at Tractor Supply this morning to pick up some Eco Brick to try out and give everyone a rolling report.
I picked up 4 packs. $3.99 a pack...8 count to a pack.

I cleaned out my stove of all ashes.
The house was at 59 degrees F.
I made a starter fire with some paper and cedar kindling strips.
Made this in a tee-pee form.

At 10:13, I lit the fire. Within 2 minutes the Bricks (which were also in tee-pee form) caught fire.
I started with 3.
As soon as those caught I placed them N&S (on their sides)...then added another going N&S
I also put 2 going across E&W on top of those.

Within the next 5 minutes all were on fire with the door closed)
Within 20 minutes from starting the fire, the flue temp was at 300 degrees.

I let it climb to about 400 degrees then fully closed the flue damper.

almost an hr later it is 64 degrees in the house, the flue damper is still closed and the flue temp is back down to 300 degrees....the very low end of the burn zone.

I will try to keep everyone updated (if interested)

The reason I am trying the Eco Brick is to see if I can get 6hrs of burn time ( i.e clean overnight burn) and how many it will take to do so.
Click to expand...


Magus, you can do yourself a favor from now on by never emptying your stove of all the ashes. Leave a couple inches at least and you will have better fires.
Click to expand...

hey i did that last week i empty the whole thing out and just found out a few days ago that i should of left a few inches of ashes on some other sites about burning wood in wood stoves and i did notice it was harder to have a good fire without ashes lol i am going on my 3rd week of using the wood stove inserts just trying to learn all the right things that we are supposed to do with wood stoves..
 
From Backwoods Savage:

"Magus, you can do yourself a favor from now on by never emptying your stove of all the ashes. Leave a couple inches at least and you will have better fires."

Are there any controlled experiments about leaving ashes? Are there any manufacturing reps who can provide information? Any physicists who want to respond? This question is a frequent one and worthy of a definitive answer.

I am not convinced that leaving ashes is a good idea. My insert has fire brick. Ashes would insulate heat transfer to the fire brick and therefore send more fire/heat up the flue. Consequently, heat storage would be impaired and I would receive less heat from my firewood if I left ashes. Am I wrong?
 
Who knows for sure, they are speaking from years of experience, which is what we do here. We got up to 40* the other day and I shut mine down and cleaned it out spotless. Heck I can make a couple of inches of ash easy. But burning 7/24s I don't bother much with the ashes maybe take out a little shovelful ever now and then, so ther is always at least afew inches in there.

But most of the controlled experiments are keeping our homes warm, just pick out the parts you like!!! So I will give you a definate answer if you think your stove runs better with all the ashes out you have yourself a real job.
 
[quote author="bboulier" date="1292486629"]From Backwoods Savage:

"Magus, you can do yourself a favor from now on by never emptying your stove of all the ashes. Leave a couple inches at least and you will have better fires."

Are there any controlled experiments about leaving ashes? Are there any manufacturing reps who can provide information? Any physicists who want to respond? This question is a frequent one and worthy of a definitive answer.

I am not convinced that leaving ashes is a good idea. My insert has fire brick. Ashes would insulate heat transfer to the fire brick and therefore send more fire/heat up the flue. Consequently, heat storage would be impaired and I would receive less heat from my firewood if I left ashes. Am I wrong?[/quote]

Yes.
 
shawneyboy said:
Wow that is a short flue. Adding a couple feet should help dramatically. Heck you are adding what 20-25 percent more. I would think at that short you are not passing the 10-2-3 rule. You may want to get it even higher than 11 feet.
Click to expand...

I dont know what the 10-2-3 rule is.
My roof pitch is a 12-2.

If I go higher than 11 feet...meaning adding more than 2 more feet, I will have to put a brace on the roof which I dont want to do.
 
Backwoods Savage said:
Magus said:
Hello fellow Burners

I decided while at Tractor Supply this morning to pick up some Eco Brick to try out and give everyone a rolling report.
I picked up 4 packs. $3.99 a pack...8 count to a pack.

I cleaned out my stove of all ashes.
The house was at 59 degrees F.
I made a starter fire with some paper and cedar kindling strips.
Made this in a tee-pee form.

At 10:13, I lit the fire. Within 2 minutes the Bricks (which were also in tee-pee form) caught fire.
I started with 3.
As soon as those caught I placed them N&S (on their sides)...then added another going N&S
I also put 2 going across E&W on top of those.

Within the next 5 minutes all were on fire with the door closed)
Within 20 minutes from starting the fire, the flue temp was at 300 degrees.

I let it climb to about 400 degrees then fully closed the flue damper.

almost an hr later it is 64 degrees in the house, the flue damper is still closed and the flue temp is back down to 300 degrees....the very low end of the burn zone.

I will try to keep everyone updated (if interested)

The reason I am trying the Eco Brick is to see if I can get 6hrs of burn time ( i.e clean overnight burn) and how many it will take to do so.
Click to expand...


Magus, you can do yourself a favor from now on by never emptying your stove of all the ashes. Leave a couple inches at least and you will have better fires.
Click to expand...

While I can see the logic of leaving ash at the bottom of the stove in the older stove I had (protect the bottom from heat and cracking) I dont see how it help when I now have a stove with fire brick at the bottom of the stove.

Should I still leave ash at the bottom even though I have fire brick at the bottom?
 
My first attempt with the Eco Brick failed.

It did catch fire quickly but only held the temp of 300 degrees for two hrs. (This is with the flue damper totally closed)

What went wrong?...I did not follow the directions of the stacking of the bricks as recomended.

I will try again tonight to see If I have better results.
If I have better results, I will try and order a pallet of the bricks for this winter and get some Oak to cut up and season for next year.

Burning what some "dealers" call "seasoned" wood is not fun at all.

I am not trying to get away from using natural cord wood. I purchased the wood stove for the FULL experience, not tossing man made bricks in my stove.

I think something is happening to me...
1. I really like burning wood now.
2. I now hate the sound of the central heating system kicking on in the middle of the night!
3. What I like more is having my house at 75 degrees and not paying the energy company any more than I have to :?)
 
Magus said:
shawneyboy said:
Wow that is a short flue. Adding a couple feet should help dramatically. Heck you are adding what 20-25 percent more. I would think at that short you are not passing the 10-2-3 rule. You may want to get it even higher than 11 feet.
Click to expand...

I dont know what the 10-2-3 rule is.
My roof pitch is a 12-2.

If I go higher than 11 feet...meaning adding more than 2 more feet, I will have to put a brace on the roof which I dont want to do.
Click to expand...



"The rule states that the top of the chimney must be 2 feet taller than anything within 10 feet and must be no less than 3 feet above the roof penetration. The entire basis for this rule is that the natural draft is affected by surrounding roofs and other obstructions when the wind blows. "

At a min. you want to meet this rule. It can do more than just effect your draft.

If the top of the chimney is below the top of the roof, or some other obstacle, wind blowing across the obstacle creates turbulence that can push air (and smoke) back down flue, in extreme wind conditions even when meeting this "rule" you can still have turbulence issues.

I also didn't want a brace, but.... I figured, in order to have a safe and effective stove, add more, brace it and sleep soundly. I would encourage you to do the same if needed.
 
shawneyboy said:
Magus said:
shawneyboy said:
Wow that is a short flue. Adding a couple feet should help dramatically. Heck you are adding what 20-25 percent more. I would think at that short you are not passing the 10-2-3 rule. You may want to get it even higher than 11 feet.
Click to expand...

I dont know what the 10-2-3 rule is.
My roof pitch is a 12-2.

If I go higher than 11 feet...meaning adding more than 2 more feet, I will have to put a brace on the roof which I dont want to do.
Click to expand...



"The rule states that the top of the chimney must be 2 feet taller than anything within 10 feet and must be no less than 3 feet above the roof penetration. The entire basis for this rule is that the natural draft is affected by surrounding roofs and other obstructions when the wind blows. "

At a min. you want to meet this rule. It can do more than just effect your draft.

If the top of the chimney is below the top of the roof, or some other obstacle, wind blowing across the obstacle creates turbulence that can push air (and smoke) back down flue, in extreme wind conditions even when meeting this "rule" you can still have turbulence issues.

I also didn't want a brace, but.... I figured, in order to have a safe and effective stove, add more, brace it and sleep soundly. I would encourage you to do the same if needed.
Click to expand...

Yeah...I kinda figured this out...Although I have an O.k draft right now and we have had some good winds...I have had no back puffing.

The extra two fee will take care of :2 feet taller than anything within 10 feet and must be no less than 3 feet above the roof penetration. I know having a longer chimney would prob be better...Im just being bull headed right now.
 
Ya want a controlled experiment relative to leaving or not leaving ash in a stove? Just start one fire in a cold stove without ash and then do it again with ash. About once a year I get stupid and shovel all the ash out of the stove. It takes me twice as long to get the thing back up to running temp with the without ash as it does with it.

I sit wondering what the heck is wrong until I realize what I have done.

One thing it does is allow better air channels under and around the wood. The other is the insulation factor under the wood. You don't insulate your attic with bricks do ya?
 
BrotherBart said:
About once a year I get stupid and shovel all the ash out of the stove. It takes me twice as long to get the thing back up to running temp with the ash as it does without it.

I sit wondering what the heck is wrong until I realize what I have done.

One thing it does is allow better air channels under and around the wood. The other is the insulation factor under the wood. You don't insulate your attic with bricks do ya?
Click to expand...

Did you mean it takes you twice as long to get the thing back up to running temp "without the ash" than with?

I just figured the ash would be taking up space in my small 1.8 cuft box.

Also...do you know if there is a way to go with thinner fire brick to increase split size? or Is thins not a smart thing to do?
 
Magus said:
Did you mean it takes you twice as long to get the thing back up to running temp "without the ash" than with?
Click to expand...

Yep, a typo.
 
i have a vc montpelier insert and i find that when i clean the box out fully i reach full temps much quicker and my fan willl kick on quicker, as well as the fact that the firebox is small and a buildup hampers the size of my load..........to each his own i guess...problem is like to burn for days on end and no time to clean out a box....HAHA
 
I'm also expirementing with eco-bricks right now as we speak. I've found that even though my wood was cut down about 8 months ago into logs, it's still way too green. With the Eco-bricks at $2.99 a pack the price per ton comes out to basically the same as what they're selling wood for around here, that's supposedly "seasoned". I figured that I KNOW that the eco-bricks are dry and ready to burn so I'll buy them over cord wood for this year and keep splitting and stacking my wood for next year. So far, I get about a three hour burn out of three bricks, and that keeps the house at about 72. BTW I called TSC and talked them into $2.99 a pack if I buy a whole skid, which is 81 packs, this is $1 off the $3.99 regular price. I bought all 7 packs they had at the Howell store and if they work well I'll order a skid, maybe I'll get lucky and they'll go on sale and I'll get a better deal before I run through that skid.;)
 
I don't have any pics, but for me so far they basically burn in three phases, first infurno! When you first put them in a hot stove they really take off even with the damper shut. This can last for 30 minutes or so, though today I started them off a cold stove and they basically skipped this step. Next is a very constant burn that puts out plety of heat with low damper settings, this so far has lasted about 2 hours for me. Last is a low burn where there's very little flame, still decent heat, this last about 30min- 1hour. This is all based on 3 bricks at a time. This morning when I got home from work the stove was cold, the last time I'd loaded it was about 8pm and that was 2 bricks ontop of 3 that where about 1/2 burned. I had VERY little ash which tells me that basically the whole brick burns turning into heat. I used 10 bricks from 1:30pm til the last load at 8pm keeping the house in the mid 70's. Not sure how long it burned after the last load as I left at 9pm, but it was going strong then. I loaded it with 4 bricks this morning, 2 N/S under 2 E/W stacked loosely, the expirement continues.
 
bboulier said:
I am not convinced that leaving ashes is a good idea. My insert has fire brick. Ashes would insulate heat transfer to the fire brick and therefore send more fire/heat up the flue. Consequently, heat storage would be impaired and I would receive less heat from my firewood if I left ashes. Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

Insulation doesn't prevent heat transfer, it only slows down the rate of transfer. The whole idea of the EPA stoves is to get them up to secondary combustion temps as quickly as possible, thereby reducing the total particulate emissions for a given load. The beginning of the burn cycle is the dirtiest and least efficient because internal temps aren't high enough to support secondary combustion. You really want to transition through this early phase as quickly as possible. The ashes allow the internal temps to rise quicker, and secondary combustion to begin earlier in the cycle. At that point, the air is cut back, slowing the volume of hot gases going up the flue and allowing internal temps to get even higher. These higher internal temps are better able to transfer the heat into the sides, top and front of the stove. Which is, after all, what you are trying to accomplish, eh?

Of course, you can get too many ashes. You need to find the right amount for your particular stove/flue/wood/operator combination. I was advised to leave 1 1/2 - 2" of ashes on the bottom of my stove, but then I realized that the 1 1/2" tall ribs on the bottom of my stove (no firebrick on the bottom) are the best indicator of ash depth. This particular stove works best for me if I keep it to the top of the ribs but no higher. If I allow ashes to rise another 2" above the ribs, the air has a problem getting through the load and the burn suffers.
 
You can go on this site and check out what they look like as well as other info about them:
http://ecobrick.net/
I tried a pack of eight in my stove and I had positive results. The heat output seemed higher for the entire burn cycle and my fire box was about half full. It was heating 8-9 hours later still! The cat was at 500 and firebox sidedoor temp was 250. This would normally be achievable on a full box of good firewood. I forgot to leave some ashes on the bottom, I usually clean it out completely about every ten days. My manual suggests that the stove works better when cleaned completely. I have not compared burns w/ or w/out the ashes. I do understand a lot of experienced people leave ashes in the firebox and have better burns. I find that to be true w/ a big bed of coals in my case. The wood loads catch fire quicker and I can damper down faster. My ash box being full or empty would not impact the burn as much as some stoves. The ash pan area has no supply air going through it unlike the old Dutchwests with an air intake on the ash pan door. My primary intake is on the sides of the front glass door and secondary "cat air" is above the side loading door. I want to try some eco bricks again. This time I'll load the firebox and see what'll happen. I can probably fit close to two 8 packs in the firebox.
 
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