Neighbor issues

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The trend is to see wood smoke as a public health nuissance - ie. impairing another's enjoyment of their land by your use of your own. They've started with outdoor boilers here in CT and I expect to see increased regulation of stoves in future years. The only real question is will the stove manufacturers be able to stay ahead of the regulation.
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2010/TOB/S/2010SB-00126-R00-SB.htm

Pissing off the neighbors because you're a self-described conscientious burner won't mean a thing when somebody blames their kid's asthma on your stove.

I'd be careful, particularly in the 'burbs.

For what it's worth, I agree with CT's legislation. It simply doesn't make sense for the whole state to pay through the nose to take our six coal plants off the grid and allow a minority of people who burn wood to offset the air quality gains with wood smoke.

I understand opinions vary...
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I think the problem is more about the population than the smoke. Too many people in the wold now, if no one lived within a few hundred yards of each other this wouldnt even be an issue. And it wouldnt amount to squat in the environment. Screw that legislation we need to start thinning out the population :coolgrin:
 
RenovationGeorge said:
bokehman said:
Been coming to the forum for a few years now and have read quite a few of these "neighbours" threads. They all seem to be the same, telling you how to deal with the neighbour, what to say etc, and being very defensive about wood burning in general but the crux of the issue is, is there smoke coming out of your chimney, and can you smell wood when you go outside? If there is no smoke and no smell you can just say to the neighbour that you are not currently using the stove so he needs to look elsewhere to solve his problem, whereas if there is smoke the neighbour has a point and you need to learn to burn properly.
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Agreed, though I would not lie about burning.

Being neighborly involves both tolerance *and* consideration, and cuts both ways. IMO, if your chimney is drifting smoke into our neighbor's yard and your neighbor complains, your neighborly (if not legal) obligation is to improve your burning practices and/or stove until you're burning clean and clear. Then you have done your part. If there is no visible smoke and the neighbor complains, I consider that their problem, though I'd still want to be polite and tolerant.

Fair's fair, and we have an obligation to fellow woodburners to not annoy the populace and create ill-will for all of us. That's part of being neighborly to fellow burners.

There's a pig farm about 1/4 mile from me and, on the rare days we get an East wind, it reeks. I don't like it, but tolerate it because I consider it fair.

Yes, live and let live.
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I had a colleague who lived on a farm in upstate New York. A neighbor offered to sell him the neighbor's property at a relatively high price. My colleagues' father refused the deal. Then, the neighbor started to build a pig farm. Deal was done.
 
Biff_CT2 said:
He can't be much of a "good" neighbor if he is whining about what should be an insignificant amount of occasional smoke.
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To be fair, we don't really know the facts of the matter.

All we can do is be responsible and considerate ourselves, otherwise the blame game never ends. Personally, I'd think I was being unfair if I produced visible smoke except on startup, if it drifted onto a neighbor's property.
 
RenovationGeorge said:
Biff_CT2 said:
He can't be much of a "good" neighbor if he is whining about what should be an insignificant amount of occasional smoke.
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To be fair, we don't really know the facts of the matter.

All we can do is be responsible and considerate ourselves, otherwise the blame game never ends. Personally, I'd think I was being unfair if I produced visible smoke except on startup, if it drifted onto a neighbor's property.
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You'd be amazed as to how much smoke I see around here. I don't know what some people are burning, but it seems that the damn things produce more smoke than heat.
 
BrowningBAR said:
You'd be amazed as to how much smoke I see around here. I don't know what some people are burning, but it seems that the damn things produce more smoke than heat.
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One fellow woodburner at work here burning ol smoke dragons. He has mentioned he likes the green ones because the burn longer... :-/
I've also talked to him about getting wood a few times and I know he usually doesnt start cutting until the fall (the same fall he is going to be burning).

Heck my dad even tried to tell me when I started cutting my own wood this year that the whole 'year ahead' thing was a myth... and he burns in an Isle Royale


~*~Kathleen~*~ said:
I tolerate the obnoxious sound of lawn mowers first thing on a Saturday morning. No sense in getting worked up or in complaining. Live and let live.
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Agreed. Working shift, I put up with quite a lot trying to sleep in the day, and try to bo considerate when I am doing stuff at night. People just need to be more tolerant and not act like they got a stick up there *armpit* all the time.
 
RenovationGeorge said:
Biff_CT2 said:
He can't be much of a "good" neighbor if he is whining about what should be an insignificant amount of occasional smoke.
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To be fair, we don't really know the facts of the matter.

All we can do is be responsible and considerate ourselves, otherwise the blame game never ends. Personally, I'd think I was being unfair if I produced visible smoke except on startup, if it drifted onto a neighbor's property.
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Startup's no excuse either, IMHO. Back in the '70s a neighbor (running the Supra stove we installed) would routinely mimic the Queen Mary (RMS, that is) on startup at a fixed time each pm. So we showed her how to do it upside down, lighting the fire from the top. All clear.

Really tiny things can make big changes. Look at it from the other side; see if he has a factual basis for complaint. If not, fine, just keep it that way.

(There are many areas in this country, and Canada, where there are bans on solid-fuel burning. Let's not be a poster-child for this.)
 
Oh, this is an easy one. You can buy those Sharper Image Ionic Breeze air cleaners for about a nickel. Consumer Reports found that they were totally ineffective at removing airborne pollutants and actually emitted dangerous levels of ozone. Buy three of them and give them to your neighbor.
 
I haven't had an issue with a neighbor yet, but you never know when this issue will crop up. I think those of us living in suburban areas really should put ourselves on notice and really review our burning practices and make sure we are burning as cleanly as possible. As was mentioned by someone else, we owe it to each other and our neighbors. I pass a few homes on the way to work and the smoke coming from there chimneys will rival what you see coming out ofthe stacks at a nuclear power plant. If someone burns like that and are unapproachable when neighbors want to discuss the issue then the neighbor really is left with no option other than going to the township. Let's all try not to be the guy the gets burning banned!
 
WWJWD?
 

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DawgDoc said:
WWJWD?
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You do realize, don't you, that the guy in your picture is not John Wayne?
 
Josie Wales?
 
I always get a kick out of new folks to the area who buy their dream house right next to a dairy farm . . . and then complain about the smell of spreading manure in the Spring.

I guess it's kind of similar to buying a house in an area where homes are close to each other . . . it's kind of inevitable that some sounds (such as hearing Kid Rock play over and over and over at a party), smells (cow manure being spread on to the Amish fields) and sights (seeing my neighbor's house that looks like a single wide mobile home plunked on top of a double wide mobile home) will "enter" your property and vice versa . . . the neighbor and I may each own a couple of acres, but we don't live in a bubble . . . and realize this fact . . . until we develop effective Star Trek-like force fields living with the neighbors' smells, sights and sounds is a two-way street . . . and most reasonable folks recognize this fact. I would say more on this topic, such as going on and on about respect . . . but I've got some pesky Klingons to deal with right now. ;)
 
About the only thing concerning neighbors that I have little tolerance for is barking dogs. I'm not talking about a dog that woofs a couple of times when the UPS guy drives up. I'm talking about all day long, non-stop barking. We live in the country. A house about a few hundred yards down the road had two big German Shepherds and two black Labs. They bark day and night. Even when the people are home and outside they do nothing to get the dogs to stop. Another neighbor has a wienie dog that yips all day. Still another at least a quarter mile behind us with my heavy woods between us has a big Lab that barks almost non stop while they are away during the day. We can't enjoy just sitting out in our courtyard or even sitting our living room on a quiet morning reading the newspaper near the warm stove. (yes, we have a very tight house with top notch Anderson windows.) I've yet to ever say anything to any of the neighbors though I am sorely tempted to record their barking dogs and give them a call at 2:00 in the morning and share the playback with them.

We have two outdoor dogs, Beagles. One never barks. The other will bark when she sees, or smells, a critter coming out of the woods. She's allowed two or three barks. If I hear more all I have to do is turn on the back porch light and she knows to stop. We do not allow our dogs to bark and they know it. This is for our sake as well as the neighbors. To stay on topic.... this should apply to wood smoke. We should minimize it for everyone's sake.
 
firefighterjake said:
Josie Wales?
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Ah! Of course. Didn't think that one through. The pic could have been almost any Eastwood character except for Dirty Harry.
 
Kenster said:
About the only thing concerning neighbors that I have little tolerance for is barking dogs. I'm not talking about a dog that woofs a couple of times when the UPS guy drives up. I'm talking about all day long, non-stop barking. We live in the country. A house about a few hundred yards down the road had two big German Shepherds and two black Labs. They bark day and night. Even when the people are home and outside they do nothing to get the dogs to stop. Another neighbor has a wienie dog that yips all day. Still another at least a quarter mile behind us with my heavy woods between us has a big Lab that barks almost non stop while they are away during the day. We can't enjoy just sitting out in our courtyard or even sitting our living room on a quiet morning reading the newspaper near the warm stove. (yes, we have a very tight house with top notch Anderson windows.) I've yet to ever say anything to any of the neighbors though I am sorely tempted to record their barking dogs and give them a call at 2:00 in the morning and share the playback with them.

We have two outdoor dogs, Beagles. One never barks. The other will bark when she sees, or smells, a critter coming out of the woods. She's allowed two or three barks. If I hear more all I have to do is turn on the back porch light and she knows to stop. We do not allow our dogs to bark and they know it. This is for our sake as well as the neighbors. To stay on topic.... this should apply to wood smoke. We should minimize it for everyone's sake.
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you hit one of my nerves right there! that is VERY frustrating, i live in a pretty tight neighborhood (.25 acre lots) and i deal with the same exact chit. there is a little yappy dog behind my house that will bark non stop when no one is home, it makes my outdoor space unusable in the summer because it is so annoying! and then there is a lab/pit bull mix down the street that will bark non stop no matter if people are home or not. Im sorry but if your home and your dog is barking non stop like that your a D-bag! if my dog barked non stop like that and I knew it was happening, it wouldnt be happening much longer!
 
If the houses are that close and he lives in the prevaling wind of your house, would it be possible to add a section or two of pipe and try to direct your exhaust away from his house?
 
CTYank said:
RenovationGeorge said:
Biff_CT2 said:
He can't be much of a "good" neighbor if he is whining about what should be an insignificant amount of occasional smoke.
Click to expand...

To be fair, we don't really know the facts of the matter.

All we can do is be responsible and considerate ourselves, otherwise the blame game never ends. Personally, I'd think I was being unfair if I produced visible smoke except on startup, if it drifted onto a neighbor's property.
Click to expand...

Startup's no excuse either, IMHO. Back in the '70s a neighbor (running the Supra stove we installed) would routinely mimic the Queen Mary (RMS, that is) on startup at a fixed time each pm. So we showed her how to do it upside down, lighting the fire from the top. All clear.

Really tiny things can make big changes. Look at it from the other side; see if he has a factual basis for complaint. If not, fine, just keep it that way.

(There are many areas in this country, and Canada, where there are bans on solid-fuel burning. Let's not be a poster-child for this.)
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+1 Agreed. Thanks for setting me straight on startup smoke.

I like your attitude. Simple, fair, responsible. Burning clean makes life better for everyone, burner's included--cleaner air, happier neighbors, less regulation.

Many people, myself included, live in the country to be free of crowded areas' pollution, regulation, and annoyances. Folks who smoke out their neighbors selfishly bring the city to the country, and deprive neighbors of the simple pleasure of clean air.
 
bokehman said:
krex1010 said:
I pass a few homes on the way to work and the smoke coming from there chimneys will rival what you see coming out ofthe stacks at a nuclear power plant.
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Nuclear power is emission free; it doesn't produce smoke.
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What 'chu talkin' 'bout, Bokehman?

Ever seen one on a cold day? Gigantic condensation clouds rise from the cooling towers. Thermal cycle, and all that. Smells minty.
 
bokehman said:
krex1010 said:
I pass a few homes on the way to work and the smoke coming from there chimneys will rival what you see coming out ofthe stacks at a nuclear power plant.
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Nuclear power is emission free; it doesn't produce smoke.
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But the cooling towers produce an enormous plume of water vapor, I was comparing the chimneys to that from a visual standpoint
 
RenovationGeorge said:
bokehman said:
krex1010 said:
I pass a few homes on the way to work and the smoke coming from there chimneys will rival what you see coming out ofthe stacks at a nuclear power plant.
Click to expand...
Nuclear power is emission free; it doesn't produce smoke.
Click to expand...

What 'chu talkin' 'bout, Bokehman?

Ever seen one on a cold day? Gigantic condensation clouds rise from the cooling towers. Thermal cycle, and all that. Smells minty.
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That is not smoke and not comparable.
 
Nuclear power is emission free; it doesn’t produce smoke.
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No power source is emission free. Can't just conjure up that uranium. Even after moving mountains to get it there is transportation to the facility, transporting power to users, transporting waste to another mountain to bury it under, etc.

Emissions aren't just smoke either, radioactive materials enter the water and air at every stage of production and can remain active for thousands of years, and pose many known and unknown health risks.
 
BeGreen said:
RenovationGeorge said:
bokehman said:
krex1010 said:
I pass a few homes on the way to work and the smoke coming from there chimneys will rival what you see coming out ofthe stacks at a nuclear power plant.
Click to expand...
Nuclear power is emission free; it doesn't produce smoke.
Click to expand...

What 'chu talkin' 'bout, Bokehman?

Ever seen one on a cold day? Gigantic condensation clouds rise from the cooling towers. Thermal cycle, and all that. Smells minty.
Click to expand...

That is not smoke and not comparable.
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I was the one who used the nuclear power plant as a comparison. I know that the plume of water vapor coming from the cooling stacks is not smoke, and I am not saying it is the same as the huge amounts of smoke I see coming out of some peoples home fireplace. The huge water vapor plume coming out of the cooling stacks at a nuclear power plant is an overwhelming visual effect though, the comparison I was making was for dramatic effect. Kinda like if I were to say it's raining cats and dogs, I would not be implying that housepets are freefalling to their deaths outside, it's just a dramatic way to say it's raining hard outside. Just like I was looking for a way to describe the ungodly amount of smoke coming from some peoples chimneys all day. I hope that clears it up!
 
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