HOLY BLACKSMITH!! My stove pipe was RED HOT today!!

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rdust said:
forby said:
20 minutes later.........

So the air was turned down to just below half about 20 minutes ago before I wrote my previous post.

new temps..

stove top thermometer actually rose to 500 and the water is boiling.....
laser of collar is 880
laser of stove top middle is 950

with all lights off it is barely perceptible red glow...... I mean you really have to look hard to see it.

What part of this is normal?

Maybe after 2.5 years I have finally been experiencing dry wood.....
Click to expand...


I'm not familiar with your stove but is 950 in the middle of the stove top an acceptable temp? That seems hot to me, what is the listed overfire temp of the stove published by the manufacture? What is the placement difference between the stove top thermometer and the place the laser reading is taken on the stove top? I'm wondering why there is such a large difference in readings.
Click to expand...

The laser reading agrees with the stovetop thermometer roughly. The stovetop is placed on the top of the stove in a corner as specified by Jotul. I only took laser readings of the top center. If I recall, the top center would normally get hotter and if 400-600 is the normal operating temp range, I would not be surprised by a reading of 900 for the top center.

I will consult with my dealer..
 
forby said:
The laser reading agrees with the stovetop thermometer roughly. The stovetop is placed on the top of the stove in a corner as specified by Jotul. I only took laser readings of the top center. If I recall, the top center would normally get hotter and if 400-600 is the normal operating temp range, I would not be surprised by a reading of 900 for the top center.

I will consult with my dealer..
Click to expand...

I always use the hottest point on the stove top for my reading. I know for my Lopi which is a steel plate stove 800 is the manufactures overfire temp. I don't care where on the stove top I see that temp, if I do I'll consider an overfire condition.
 
Is the baffle in the F600 the same as the F500, in that it can move forward if dislodged by a split - I wonder if there was a gap that was causing flames to be concentrated on the collar, bypassing the route around the baffle. I know I have to push mine back into place every once in a while
 
I'm gonna take a swag here:

Full open (or close to) air is removing the heat from the stove and pumping that into and up the stack. By slowing that air down (less primary air), you may actually see higher stove temps and lower stack temps. Go a little further (even less air) and you NOW have control of the stove top temps without high stack temps. Again - this is just a swag, but I am guessing that your method, even though it seems to work, is a bit counter productive. You game for a "test" with the stove operation?
 
CarbonNeutral said:
Is the baffle in the F600 the same as the F500, in that it can move forward if dislodged by a split - I wonder if there was a gap that was causing flames to be concentrated on the collar, bypassing the route around the baffle. I know I have to push mine back into place every once in a while
Click to expand...

I'll check on that baffle issue.....
 
rdust said:
forby said:
The laser reading agrees with the stovetop thermometer roughly. The stovetop is placed on the top of the stove in a corner as specified by Jotul. I only took laser readings of the top center. If I recall, the top center would normally get hotter and if 400-600 is the normal operating temp range, I would not be surprised by a reading of 900 for the top center.

I will consult with my dealer..
Click to expand...

I always use the hottest point on the stove top for my reading. I know for my Lopi which is a steel plate stove 800 is the manufactures overfire temp. I don't care where on the stove top I see that temp, if I do I'll consider an overfire condition.
Click to expand...

I'm going by Jotul instructions and the thermo is placed where they say to place it. I assume that Jotul expects the center top to be hotter and they are OK with that. To assume I should use the center reading is counter to the instructions...... Anyone else have this temp variation issue?
 
forby said:
UPDATE**********************

I started the stove with just a few coals left early this am. I cross stacked the way I did when I had the problem. This time I stayed with the stove for the first 10 minutes. I was able to close the door fairly soon today(10min).

Some of the wood sizzled slightly from the ends and only near the long ends(probably moisture that settled slightly into the wood).

I went upstairs and turned on a few vents such as bathroom and stove. After 20 minutes more, I was reading some temps which I believe were rising faster than normal.

Stovetop thermometer 475
laser at same location 460-485
laser of top middle 970
laser of connector(part that was red before) 885
laser of stove pipe above connector (1 ft above stove top) 680

Then I looked again..... WTH....... I turned off the lights and what did I see..... a very slightly glowing red connector!!!!!!!!!

The air was of course full on as usual. I turned it down and came to write to all of you...

So I guess it wasn't the door being cracked open the other day that caused it. It may be due to the excessive amount of exhaust keeping heat in the pipe or it may be drier that I have ever had wood(except for the sizzle).

Tomorrow's experiment will be repeated with the exhaust fans off.......
Click to expand...

How are you storing your wood? Do you have a moisture meter? If yes, resplit a split and take a reading from the new split's interior center.

Is you chimney insulated?
 
I'm going with Jags' swag here: too much air is concentrating the heat at the stove/flue collar area. Yes, sometimes lower air = higher stove temps and lower stack temps, and took me a while at first to grasp how this worked. But I can see it with my stove very easily. Too much air and I'm pushing good heat into the pipe.
 
branchburner said:
I'm going with Jags' swag here:
Click to expand...

I was beginning to wonder if everybody had me on their "Ignore" list. :coolsmile:
 
Jags said:
I was beginning to wonder if everybody had me on their "Ignore" list. :coolsmile:
Click to expand...

Nope I hear you loud and clear, I feel the same way. Air wide open equals heat going right up the stack causing the chimney/stove collar to get too hot.

I'd like to hear more about the stove top temps from other users of this stove though. I would think 900 anywhere on the stove top is bad.
 
rdust said:
forby said:
The laser reading agrees with the stovetop thermometer roughly. The stovetop is placed on the top of the stove in a corner as specified by Jotul. I only took laser readings of the top center. If I recall, the top center would normally get hotter and if 400-600 is the normal operating temp range, I would not be surprised by a reading of 900 for the top center.

I will consult with my dealer..
Click to expand...

I always use the hottest point on the stove top for my reading. I know for my Lopi which is a steel plate stove 800 is the manufactures overfire temp. I don't care where on the stove top I see that temp, if I do I'll consider an overfire condition.
Click to expand...

Agree, find the hottest point. I used to only check stove top temps, but now after two years I never do. I only watch flue temps and temps on the back of the stove (where my afterburner is). Those spots can push 900F very easily, not the stove top - if I watch the hottest spots, the cooler spots will take care of themselves.
 
branchburner said:
rdust said:
forby said:
The laser reading agrees with the stovetop thermometer roughly. The stovetop is placed on the top of the stove in a corner as specified by Jotul. I only took laser readings of the top center. If I recall, the top center would normally get hotter and if 400-600 is the normal operating temp range, I would not be surprised by a reading of 900 for the top center.

I will consult with my dealer..
Click to expand...

I always use the hottest point on the stove top for my reading. I know for my Lopi which is a steel plate stove 800 is the manufactures overfire temp. I don't care where on the stove top I see that temp, if I do I'll consider an overfire condition.
Click to expand...

Agree, find the hottest point. I used to only check stove top temps, but now after two years I never do. I only watch flue temps and temps on the back of the stove (where my afterburner is). Those spots can push 900F very easily, not the stove top - if I watch the hottest spots, the cooler spots will take care of themselves.
Click to expand...
Where were you when they were beating me up for watching the flue temps last spring, you could have had my back! :lol:
 
Forby,

I didn't read through the whole thread, so forgive me if I'm just repeating what someone else may have posted.

You are exactly correct, there is a window for maximum efficiency for hot burns. Too little air and the fire chokes, too much air will cool the fire. However, I would guess that there is also a tiny window of airflow that will cause overfires. That tiny window probably exists just before the point where the airflow begins to cool the fire.

If you think about it there is a difference between cracking the door open just a bit and opening it wide. You'll even see the difference in how hot the coals glow. Door wide open will cool the fire. Door cracked open very likely puts the airflow in that little window where the airflow is enough to maximize heat but not sufficient to cool the fire.

At any rate, it obviously was overfired - that's what overfired is - when the metal parts glow. While overfiring is not a good practice, it is not always damaging. Overfiring simply means the iron or steel reach a temp at which it becomes soft and weak. If the expanse of this glowing area is great enough the metal cannot support its own weigh and will begin to sag. Sometimes the area of glowing metal is small enough that nothing happens and the stove suffers no ill effects.

To illustrate this - imagine taking a torch to a long iron bar. If you heat just the tip to glowing and then let it cool - the iron bar will look the same as it did before the heating. However if the bar is several feet long and you heat it in the very middle, the weight of the bar ends may be enough to cause the bar to bend. Once it cools the bar will not return to original shape.

As far as why have you been able to get away with this for so many hundreds of times until now? That's the nature of safety concerns. Just when you think you can get away with it - you get zapped.

I suggest getting a coffee maker that has a timer so you can have coffee ready before you start the fire. Then use that 35 minutes to sip coffee while baby-sitting the stove.
 
oldspark said:
branchburner said:
Agree, find the hottest point. I used to only check stove top temps, but now after two years I never do. I only watch flue temps and temps on the back of the stove (where my afterburner is). Those spots can push 900F very easily, not the stove top - if I watch the hottest spots, the cooler spots will take care of themselves.
Click to expand...
Where were you when they were beating me up for watching the flue temps last spring, you could have had my back! :lol:
Click to expand...

Actually, I think I was one of the guys that appeared to be beating you up. (Really was just telling you to let the stove settle in and cruise before expecting flue temps to drop.) But your threads are one of the reasons I started paying more attention to the flue - never said thank you, so thank you! And jdonna got me to pay attention to the back of the stove, where my type of stove throws big heat and the temps far exceed the stove top. So my new perspective is entirely the result of listening to other forum members - it's a never-ending education here!
 
forby said:
20 minutes later.........

So the air was turned down to just below half about 20 minutes ago before I wrote my previous post.

new temps..

stove top thermometer actually rose to 500 and the water is boiling.....
laser of collar is 880
laser of stove top middle is 950

with all lights off it is barely perceptible red glow...... I mean you really have to look hard to see it.

What part of this is normal?

Maybe after 2.5 years I have finally been experiencing dry wood.....
Click to expand...
What part is normal is that you are starting to dial the air down to an acceptable level. Once you start to use an EPA stove you should be getting tons of heat out of it with the air turned way down. You have been running the stove incorrectly for a while now and maybe the wood is truly seasoned, which is starting to put you in the right zone. Keep playing with it and you will soon see that you can take the air way down while still maintaining lots of heat.
 
BIG Update......

The baffles are warped bad!!!!!

Apparently, the instruction book is wrong!!!! It clearly says "Once the stove has reached a surface temperature of 400-600 degrees, adjust the primary air control lever as necessary to generate the heat output and burn time desired.... The optimum surface temperature range for the most efficient burn is between 400-600 degrees."

It's a lie. My stove has never reached 600 degrees according to the temp gauge!!!!!

My dealer told me the air should be adjusted down when the fire is "active". WTH is really "active"?????? It would be nice if Jotul told me this in the instructions....

WARNING: IF YOU GO BY THE BOOK YOU MAY MELT YOUR STOVE!!!!

I warped by baffles by staying well under 600 degrees.

I'm not happy!!!!!!!!!
 
pics....
 

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forby said:
BIG Update......

The baffles are warped bad!!!!!

Apparently, the instruction book is wrong!!!! It clearly says "Once the stove has reached a surface temperature of 400-600 degrees, adjust the primary air control lever as necessary to generate the heat output and burn time desired.... The optimum surface temperature range for the most efficient burn is between 400-600 degrees."

It's a lie. My stove has never reached 600 degrees according to the temp gauge!!!!!

My dealer told me the air should be adjusted down when the fire is "active". WTH is really "active"?????? It would be nice if Jotul told me this in the instructions....

WARNING: IF YOU GO BY THE BOOK YOU MAY MELT YOUR STOVE!!!!

I warped by baffles by staying well under 600 degrees.
Click to expand...
On the stove top maybe......But with a glowing stove exit the flue wasnt under 600. I think the high heat you were throwing up the flue may have played a roll on this one. The practice of leaving the air wide open allows all the heat to rocket through the stove. That and leaving the door cracked for start up air. Im sure the dealer can order you a new baffle. And the good news, i think you can install it with out removing the top of the stove to since it is a split baffle.

I'm not happy!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
 
First make sure the temp gauge is accurate. Many are not. With that flue collar glowing I strongly suspect the stove top was far over 600F. From the description, the recent overheating of the stove didn't happen by following instructions. It happened by walking away from the stove with the door open.
 
I hope it can be fixed easily. I have lots more I feel like saying but I am finding it real hard to to choose the right words.
 
forby said:
BIG Update......

The baffles are warped bad!!!!!

Apparently, the instruction book is wrong!!!! It clearly says "Once the stove has reached a surface temperature of 400-600 degrees, adjust the primary air control lever as necessary to generate the heat output and burn time desired.... The optimum surface temperature range for the most efficient burn is between 400-600 degrees."

It's a lie. My stove has never reached 600 degrees according to the temp gauge!!!!!

My dealer told me the air should be adjusted down when the fire is "active". WTH is really "active"?????? It would be nice if Jotul told me this in the instructions....

WARNING: IF YOU GO BY THE BOOK YOU MAY MELT YOUR STOVE!!!!

I warped by baffles by staying well under 600 degrees.

I'm not happy!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...


I'm not sure I follow you saying the stove was never over 600 degree's. You said in a post above the center of the stove top was 970. That sure is a surface temp over 600! Either way I hope you get the stove fixed up and get a better burn practice down. I'd also make sure the chimney is ok, with the outside of the pipe being 680 that is a toasty internal flue temp.

forby said:
Stovetop thermometer 475
laser at same location 460-485
laser of top middle 970
laser of connector(part that was red before) 885
laser of stove pipe above connector (1 ft above stove top) 680
Click to expand...
 
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