first of many questions

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scrambled

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Dec 17, 2010
2
KY
Hi everyone-

First off I want to say that this forum has more information about wood burning than I ever could dream about!

I have been reading the post for a week, and still reading.

Here is some background information. I live in a large house on a farm with out any close neighbors. The house has large vaulted ceilings and the entire back of the house is windows. It is nice in the summer, but cold in the winter. When it was just my wife and I, it did not matter if we were cold. Now thing are changing and the family is now bigger. So it is time to warm the house up in the winter. That is where you all come in.

At first I had planned to build a simple outdoor wood burner. Then I found this site, and then decided on an outdoor wood gassifier. Now I am looking at the gassifier wood boiler. So now I am more confused than ever. I doubt that I can get everything finished this year but I will be ahead of the curve for next year.

In my house, the heat pump does an excellent job when the temperature is above 45 degrees, from 35 to 45 it can hold its own, but runs constantly. Below 32 the house starts getting cold.

This is what I am trying to accomplish.
1—have an outdoor furnace of some sort that I can use when the temperature drops outside.
2. Install a radiator / heat exchanger in my heat pump
3. Install the pex below floor radiant heat on the first floor. I have access to most of the underside of the first floor.

I have a complete fabrication shop where anything we can dream up, I can build. I am a state certified welder, AWS certified welder, I have a cnc plasma/ flame cutter where I can cut either mild steel or stainless sheets 6 x 12 feet and from 20 gauge to 4 inches thick. If you can draw a shape on a piece of paper, I can cut it out of steel.

At my day job, I work on industrial equipment including industrial natural gas ovens. So I am planning on building a controller that can control everything on the furnace.

I want to make sure I am not directly duplicating any furnace that is currently being made, but I want to use the best parts from each style.

I can make it any size, any thickness, add any style grate, put the blowers anyplace.


What do you think? Anyone having any must have ideas or absolutely stay away from ideas?


Steve
 
With all those skills that you have, bravo. Yet, might it not seem sensible for you to apply those skills in your job or profession where they produce the greatest return rather than build things which exist and already are of high quality? Unless, of course, you have lots of extra time on your hands and nothing better to do. With that growing family, your free time is precious to them. Let them enjoy you while they can.

Blessed Holidays to you and your family.
 
Congradulations on that new family! I too, like working with my hands, and knowing how and why something works. I posted the following on another (newbies) thread concerning my resent boiler choice.

Milkman8, I too am new to this forum, but unlike you I made my choice before finding this huge and very active knowledge base.  I have ordered a seton wood boiler because like you I wanted to burn wood without a lot of processing.  I realize I am about to get quite an education in wood burning. 

I ordered the seton (http://www.rohor.com/)  for the following reasons; 1).  the seton can be pressurized to 30 lbs., 2).  I wanted a big fire box, a 16†x 36†door in the big seton.,  3). I wanted something that I could service myself. Fred sent me the plans, I could build another (with improvements e.g. a larger door and firebox) if I so desired. 4). I wanted something efficient enough to qualify for the federal tax credit(ten days left), but forgiving enough to let me burn marginal biomass out of our waste stream. (Nothing finer than heat from something that was costing money to despose of). 

I respect the technology and efficiencies of the downdraft gasification boilers, but they require a high quality (expensive) feedstock.  I know the seton is 30 year old design, and has several issues, but I’m believing return water temperature control, enough draft and heat storage are going to get me by most of them!
 
 
"I respect the technology and efficiencies of the downdraft gasification boilers, but they require a high quality (expensive) feedstock. "

Actually, gassifiers require dry wood (20%MC). It is no more expensive than wet wood, you just have to plan ahead. I originaly considered an Outdoor Wood Boiler but was concerned about the smoke/soot. Then I found out about gassifers and was hooked. I built a 12x16 outbuilding for the gassifier (6x12) and storage (10x12). It is 80 feet from the house where I have 2x500gal used propane tanks for storage. It is connected by a heat exchanger to my in floor radiant system (3 zones). A Garn unit might have worked for my situation also but I am very happy with my Paxo from AHONA.

Gassifiers generally require less wood (more complete combustion) but have a learning curve to get it running correctly (lots of help here). The "Simplest pressurize storage..." sticky has a good design. Most common problem (mine included) is staring with too wet of wood. You can make wet wood (30% MC) work but it requires different settings and approaches. You can add a water to air heat exchanger in your forced air and the radiant staple up system for the first floor. You may want to add an automatic damper to shut off the heat pump flow to the first floor. The radiantcompany.com has a lot of good information and can assist with the design and parts. If you start planning now, you couldhave a running system for NEXT winter. Start cutting, splitting and stacking wood now, no matter which unit you go with.

Good luck and Merry CHristmas!
 
I too am a certified welder... I don't have a cnc plasma cutter though... I envy you very much! :p

You are at the right place for ideas.
1. Make it easy to clean, check out the Varmebaronen from smokeless heat for ideas on this.
2. Induced draft so no smoke out the doors when loading/peeking.
3. Make the pri/sec air and draft fan easily adjustable for tuning air/fuel ratio. Add a lambda sensor for automatic adj if you are willing to learn how to control it.
4. Check out nozzle sizes of various boilers... resist the temptation to make it burn for 15 hours on 1 loading, keep firebox in proportion.
5. I think I would try to get as much firetube area as posible, even double what most boilers have. you can always remove turbulators but you can't (easily) add more tubes.
6. Control it all with some version of Nofossil's NFCS. http://forum.nofossil.org/
7. Keep the ceramics as simple as possible so they are easy/cheap to replace.

Have fun
 
Hi Steve,

check out this Garn style boiler:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/11262

Make sure you run a room by room heat loss calc before you run any tubing underfloor. Without the numbers its basically an expensive guessing game to get it right. these numbers will determine if you can even heat the space or if you need extruded aluminum heat transfer plates ($$$) or if light weight stamped plates will do the job. Also flow rates, supply water temps, etc....
If your gonna do it, do it right much like building a boiler.

I recommend "Modern Hydronic Heating" 3rd edition. I am guessing it comes with the same free software that the 2nd edition came with. It is the Academic version but I found it to be much better than any of the online calculators and you of course you'd have the book which is great.

Good luck,
Noah
 
Thanks everyone-

I will try to finish my autocad drawing of what I am planning sometime this week, but because of Christmas it may take me a few days longer.

Once I get my ideas on paper, everyone can make the suggestions on what to change or to keep. Hopefully in the end, my house will be nice and toasty!!

I do have one question before I start.

I have heard several different terms, and I need to try to figure out the difference.

OWB-- outdoor wood burner vs outdoor wood boiler.

I know that most outdoor wood burners are open systems, and the boilers are closed systems. But if the boilers are designed to not excede 180 degrees F, there is not a need for a pressurized tank?

So I quess my question is which is better an open system or a closed system.

Thanks


Steve
 
Open system will have a fresh supply of oxygen to turn your masterpiece into iron oxide...

I would go with a closed system :grrr:
 
The garn is an open system that lasts a long time with properly treated water. You do need a expanshion tank on a closed system. That being said, I'm putting in a closed system.
 
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