Watch your lug nuts

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dave11

Minister of Fire
May 25, 2008
633
Western PA
Was reminded today of the abuse of lug nuts by your average mechanic. Had my truck in for the annual state inspection, which is the only time I let a mechanic come near any of my vehicles. Brought it home afterward and, as I always do, loosened and properly re-tightened the lug nuts with a torque wrench. They were on so tight I needed a three foot extension on the tire iron to break them loose. Not only does leaving them on that tight make it hard to change a tire on a dark snowy night, but it is bad for the lugs, the wheel bearings, and the rotors, if disc brakes.

Improper torquing of lug nuts is the leading cause of rotor warping and requiring replacement. Also leads to premature failure of the bearings, and broken lugs.

Just wanted to toss it out there for folks to think about.
 
This is a pet peeve of mine also and we had a similar experience the last time our car was in for an inspection.

We do all our own mechanic work and always torque the lug nuts. "Torque Sticks" are available to mechanics for use on impacts and seem to work well.

Unfortunately, some mechanics still refuse to use either a torque wrench or torque stick thinking they can tell by "feel" when lugs nuts are tight enough.
 
Yes I torque all lugnuts w a torque wrench. Uneven torque process will warp rotors faster. As for wheel bearings???not sure on that one.
 
One of my biggest peeves. I have broken more than my share of wheel lugs over the years due to morons either over-tightening or cross threading lug nuts. Laziness is the biggest contributor. I have had to jump up and down on my tire tool before just to break a lug nut loose. Often times this results in a broken wheel lug. I weigh about 210 lbs, so there is no telling how tight they were. Lug nuts only need to be tightened to usually about 75 ft-lbs, which is very little force when hand tightening.

Cross threading is usually done when the lug nut is put in the air wrench socket and then ran onto the lug. Cross threaded or not, the nut is going on with an air wrench. I had a flat in my work truck once, only to discover that one lug nut was cross threaded on the lug and it was a different size lug nut than the others!

I actually rotate my tires myself, even though I can have it done for free with balancing. Until I need them balanced, I will continue to do this just because I don't want to end up with a broken wheel lug.

I recently had to take off the front tire on my Tacoma to get to my starter. I have an air wrench and noticed it was struggling when taking off the lug nuts. I was scratching my head and was wondering if my air wrench was getting weak, then it dawned on me that I had recently taken it to the Toyota dealer for front brake pads. They had done just like all the others and tightened the #*@% out of them.

Even if you request a torque wrench to be used, all they do is over-tighten them with the air wrench and then put the torque wrench on the lug nuts afterwards. Of course the torque wrench always "clicks". That's because they are probably tightened down to about 300 ft-lbs.

On the rare occasions I have a shop remove and replace my tires, I always go back home and loosen the lug nuts with may air wrench and torque them to specs. An air wrench makes it less likely to break the lugs if they have been overtightened.

I also do oil changes myself, but that is another story.....
 
If you went in for a state inspection, why did the mechanic even touch the lug nuts? Does PA require to removal of the wheels or something?
 
Inspection here require measurement of remaining brake lining. My mechanic does it right...and he knows I want the tires rotated then too so all tires come off.
 
A torque wrench is the only reliable way to make sure the lugs are tightened correctly. Most of the time the dog bones that run on the impact wrenches work but there are a few variables that could result in an incorrect tongue. Another thing to remember is that the wheel being torqued should be off the ground with the breaks off.

One time I had a friend with a 74 Plymouth Valiant that had a cap over the lug nuts. He had just had the car in a shop for some break work and shortly after one of the wheels started making a funny noise. We popped the cap off and one of the lug nuts fell out. After seeing that, I have always checked the lugs whenever a shop has the wheels off my vehicles.
 
Jags said:
And always have them covered. Its illegal to have your nuts exposed in public.
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+1 That's better than my dyslexia comment was going to be.
 
mayhem said:
If you went in for a state inspection, why did the mechanic even touch the lug nuts? Does PA require to removal of the wheels or something?
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Yeah. There's a slew of things they inspect, including the pads and rotors. Otherwise I wouldn't let them near my vehicles.

And you can tell them to use a torque wrench, but they never do.

The vibration from the air gun though is also bad for the bearings, but its pointless to try getting them not to use it.

But I'm convinced the reason I have less trouble with my vehicles than most folks is BECAUSE I don't let the mechanics near it otherwise. They beat on stubborn parts with hammers and the air tools, and heat up things they shouldn't. And like the lug nuts, they usually don't tighten critical components with torque wrenches. Even if they don't mean to, they are making it easier for other parts to fail.
 
They all think that they are Nascar tire changers. Question, where would I find the correct specs for my Subaru or Tacoma? I don't remember ever seeing them in the owner's manual. Be safe.
Ed
 
colebrookman said:
They all think that they are Nascar tire changers. Question, where would I find the correct specs for my Subaru or Tacoma? I don't remember ever seeing them in the owner's manual. Be safe.
Ed
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Good point. I don't think mine are in the owners manuals, either. I have the service manuals for my vehicles, and they are listed in there. You might need to track them down that way.

Most people just tighten the lug nut by how it feels, which isn't ideal, but its fast. The problem is when one or more are much tighter than the others, or when any are too tight. I admit I don't always use a torque wrench when I'm putting a tire back on, but I'm careful to make sure they are fairly equal in tightness, and not too tight, if I'm doing it by touch. Super-torquing with the air wrench is what is really bad.
 
i am a fully licensed journeyman mechanic and can honestly say that every tire i remove and put back on is torqued properly and to the manufacturers specification. i am sorry to hear that you guys think all mechanics don't care and are to lazy to do things properly. i realize that mechanics don't always get the best rap but there are alot of us out there that actually take a great amount of pride in our quality of work. i have spent a lot of time, effort and money on training and tools so i can be more efficient and offer a high level of service to my customers. maybe you guys need to look harder and find a new mechanic because there is actually some out there that care and are knowledgeable!
 
It would be much easier if the good mechanics wore white hats. If you watch at the local tire stores they all just start at 12 o clock on the wheel and work clockwise around the rim, Nascar style. I and most of my generation were taught 12down to 6 to9 to 3 etc to get an even tork on the wheel and the brake rotors. But, of course we didn't have throw away brake rotors so we took better care and tried to eliminate warping caused by improper tightening.

Ed
From the Subaru forum, the Forester should be around 65.8 lbs to 70 or as one member said, use 69, easier to remember. On to the Tacoma. I really need a life.
 
prairiefire said:
i am a fully licensed journeyman mechanic and can honestly say that every tire i remove and put back on is torqued properly and to the manufacturers specification. i am sorry to hear that you guys think all mechanics don't care and are to lazy to do things properly. i realize that mechanics don't always get the best rap but there are alot of us out there that actually take a great amount of pride in our quality of work. i have spent a lot of time, effort and money on training and tools so i can be more efficient and offer a high level of service to my customers. maybe you guys need to look harder and find a new mechanic because there is actually some out there that care and are knowledgeable!
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Many times its not a mechanic that's installing the lug nuts.

As a mechanic in a former career (ASE master certification) I do my own work. Unfortunately, I'm still required to have state inspections done if I want to drive my cars on public roads and only state licensed shops can do them. Also, state inspections are almost never done by certified mechanics because they pay so little and most mechanics work on commission. So its not usually a trained mechanic that over-torques my lug nuts.

After my last inspection I was barely able to remove my lug nuts on the two wheels they pulled (one front, one back) using my Ingersol Rand 1/2" impact which is rated for 250 lb-ft. I had to hammer on them for quite a while to get them loose. I called the shop to let them know I thought this was a problem and the manager swore repeatedly that they would never do such a thing. After working for more than 15 years in shops I know better. Someone got lazy. I've seen it literally hundreds of times.

My observations about mechanics is that most make errors based on lack of knowledge and not because they are malicious. I remember in my early days as tire installer using an impact on lug nuts. When I learned better I started using a torque wrench.
 
semipro i agree with you allot of times it's not a mechanic putting on your tires and there are lazy mechanics in our shop too i just don't want to be lumped in with them. don't get me wrong i have messed up my fair share of $#!& over the years but learnt a lesson from every one :shut: we have safety inspections here too but not yearly ones, they must be performed by a certified mechanic.
 
prairiefire said:
i am a fully licensed journeyman mechanic and can honestly say that every tire i remove and put back on is torqued properly and to the manufacturers specification. i am sorry to hear that you guys think all mechanics don't care and are to lazy to do things properly. i realize that mechanics don't always get the best rap but there are alot of us out there that actually take a great amount of pride in our quality of work. i have spent a lot of time, effort and money on training and tools so i can be more efficient and offer a high level of service to my customers. maybe you guys need to look harder and find a new mechanic because there is actually some out there that care and are knowledgeable!
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No offense intended. I'm sure there are some mechanics who are conscientious, but by far the majority, at least any places I've ever lived, are not. Even after I tell them to use the torque wrench, I find them over-torqued from the air wrench.

My compatriots will likely attack me for saying this, but having traveled a lot throughout Canada, I do believe Canadians are more conscientious in their work than the average American.
 
Semipro said:
prairiefire said:
i am a fully licensed journeyman mechanic and can honestly say that every tire i remove and put back on is torqued properly and to the manufacturers specification. i am sorry to hear that you guys think all mechanics don't care and are to lazy to do things properly. i realize that mechanics don't always get the best rap but there are alot of us out there that actually take a great amount of pride in our quality of work. i have spent a lot of time, effort and money on training and tools so i can be more efficient and offer a high level of service to my customers. maybe you guys need to look harder and find a new mechanic because there is actually some out there that care and are knowledgeable!
Click to expand...

Many times its not a mechanic that's installing the lug nuts.

As a mechanic in a former career (ASE master certification) I do my own work. Unfortunately, I'm still required to have state inspections done if I want to drive my cars on public roads and only state licensed shops can do them. Also, state inspections are almost never done by certified mechanics because they pay so little and most mechanics work on commission. So its not usually a trained mechanic that over-torques my lug nuts.
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You guys must be luckier in VA than we are. All the garages here do them, and to make money, they look for things that are questionable. Last year, the place told me the front pads needed to be replaced, and were shocked when I told them I'd do it myself. So I brought it home, took off the pads, and checked them with a micrometer. They were worn, but still within tolerance as mandated by the state. So I called the state to file a compliant. They told me to send a letter and take pics. I asked if I needed to change the pads. They said, if I wanted to drive the car, I would have to comply with the shop, because they wouldn't review my case for weeks or months. So I had to change the pads anyway. And I never heard back from the state.

And this most recent time, the lug nuts were over-torqued by an ASE certified guy. He had the patch on.
 
I noticed the same thing with oil filters and drain plugs. It's simple economics, the cost of not enough torque is far greater than that of too much torque.

Overtorquing leads to warped discs, stripped drain plugs and future business (or at least no complaints) for shops. Seized engines and wheels that fall off bring ugly lawsuits.

After the last time a shop touched my wheels, I remember jumping on the tire iron to try and loosen a lug nut and it wouldn't budge. It had to be at least 300 lb/ft.
 
Don't even get me started about oil filters! On one of the vehicles I use to own, shop put the filter on so tight I could not turn it with a strap or adj wrench! I ended up driving a screwdriver through it, making a mess all over the place and twisting the thing in half to get it lose.
 
For comparison, my daily driver pickup requires 165 ft-lbs on each of the 8 lug nuts on each wheel. That's more torque than the engine on most of these 4 cylinder cars make! I only torque to 155 since that's all the higher my Twrench goes.
 
One thing that is overlooked is often times veiwed as a good thing when it is not. Anti-seize. when used correctly it is an amazing product. use a t-spec for a clean/dry state on a lubricated fastener and all you have is a lubricated over-torqued fastener. Oh, and the t-spec for your taco---what year? either 76(up till 99ish) or 83(2000 plus).
 
dave11 said:
Was reminded today of the abuse of lug nuts by your average mechanic. Had my truck in for the annual state inspection, which is the only time I let a mechanic come near any of my vehicles. Brought it home afterward and, as I always do, loosened and properly re-tightened the lug nuts with a torque wrench. They were on so tight I needed a three foot extension on the tire iron to break them loose. Not only does leaving them on that tight make it hard to change a tire on a dark snowy night, but it is bad for the lugs, the wheel bearings, and the rotors, if disc brakes.

Improper torquing of lug nuts is the leading cause of rotor warping and requiring replacement. Also leads to premature failure of the bearings, and broken lugs.

Just wanted to toss it out there for folks to think about.
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As a shop owner, and mechanic myself, I find that inexcuseable.
I start the nuts by hand, spin them on with air gun loosely, then torque them correctly.

I strongly suggest you complain to the shop owner.
If no one complains, then they do not know their mechanics are doing a chitty job, to go talk to them about correct procedures.

I hate stories like this, as its so simple to do it right, and gives the industry a bad name because some mechanic are morons.

It ruins the nuts, the studs, brakes, and so on.

Amazing that a "Safety Inspection" is doing far more harm to your truck than it helps.
 
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