As I have seen on several other posts I too am having trouble getting the insurance to cover my new stove. I have recently purchased a Pacific Energy Super 27 and have my hearth pad laid out with 1/2" of durock and ceramic tile. However State Farm wants me to install the stove 36" from the wall. The stoves manual states that I can place at a minimum of 5" to combustibles to back of stove. Need some help to persuade the insurance company if you can. Any input would be appreciated.
insrance giving me $%^& over clearances help!!!!
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Tell the agent to look at the State Farm website.
http://www.statefarm.com/learning/be_safe/home/learning_loss_woodburn1.asp
"A minimum 36-inch clearance to combustible materials, including walls, on all sides of a freestanding woodburner with no label or other manufacturer instructions. Clearance requirements are different for other types of appliances, such as furnaces and pellet burning appliances.
Even when approved and UL listed wall protection is used, clearances to a combustible wall should never be less than 12 inches."
http://www.statefarm.com/learning/be_safe/home/learning_loss_woodburn1.asp
"A minimum 36-inch clearance to combustible materials, including walls, on all sides of a freestanding woodburner with no label or other manufacturer instructions. Clearance requirements are different for other types of appliances, such as furnaces and pellet burning appliances.
Even when approved and UL listed wall protection is used, clearances to a combustible wall should never be less than 12 inches."
Badfish740
Minister of Fire
- Oct 3, 2007
- 1,539
speace1025 said:
Have you attempted to show them the documentation by faxing/e-mailing it? If the stove has been UL or Warnock Hersey listed, etc...at that clearance I can't imagine why they would have a problem. My insurance company simply told me that my furnace just needed to pass inspection by my local construction official, so I went to him and he just asked for the installation guide from the manual. I installed it as per the specs in the manual and got my approval.
That's the info they gave me. I told them that this stove was not homemade or old it was brand new. They said they still wouldn't cover it and may have to drop me if I install it. Geez, what's the point in the UL listing if they won't stand by it.
Backwoods Savage
Minister of Fire
! There are more than one type of fish in the ocean.
drop them or call another state farm agent in your area.
They just tried to do the same thing to my grandmother. The new insurance guy came to the house and measured the "stone" that is under the wood stove and was sorry to inform her that to keep the wood stove she would have to improve her hearth pad. My grandmother (being still a very well imforned and alert lady) used her best innocent / ignorant old lady voice and asked "I just don't understand the problem sir, please explain it to me." He informed her that policy / code / the bible / whatever he was citing required a solid hearth pad that extended 18 inches past the front of the stove. Now, in her best pay attention to me young man voice she asked "So sir, you are telling me that the concrete basement floor covered in asbestos floor tile which this thing sits on doesn't meet your regulations?" He smiled politely, nodded his head as he looked away and told her "yes, that will do just fine maam." (The 1.5 inch stone was only under the stove to simply raise it enough so that 1 pipe would reach the 90 going to the thimble/crock)
My point, they are morons. If they won't listen to the truth / fact, then don't waste your time let alone give them your money. Move to someone who actually knows something. If they are that damned stupid now, can you only imagine the problems they will give you when it comes time to actually pay up on a claim>???
pen
They just tried to do the same thing to my grandmother. The new insurance guy came to the house and measured the "stone" that is under the wood stove and was sorry to inform her that to keep the wood stove she would have to improve her hearth pad. My grandmother (being still a very well imforned and alert lady) used her best innocent / ignorant old lady voice and asked "I just don't understand the problem sir, please explain it to me." He informed her that policy / code / the bible / whatever he was citing required a solid hearth pad that extended 18 inches past the front of the stove. Now, in her best pay attention to me young man voice she asked "So sir, you are telling me that the concrete basement floor covered in asbestos floor tile which this thing sits on doesn't meet your regulations?" He smiled politely, nodded his head as he looked away and told her "yes, that will do just fine maam." (The 1.5 inch stone was only under the stove to simply raise it enough so that 1 pipe would reach the 90 going to the thimble/crock)
My point, they are morons. If they won't listen to the truth / fact, then don't waste your time let alone give them your money. Move to someone who actually knows something. If they are that damned stupid now, can you only imagine the problems they will give you when it comes time to actually pay up on a claim>???
pen
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
I also use state farm and it was a slam dunk to install per manufacturer's specs. So long as it is inspected.
Also, have them put in writing the claim that you will be dropped. Many times a verbal thrashing by an agent is quashed by the written version of their opinion. They can't deny having made a claim in a letter, (unllike like a conversation taking place), so they are a bit more "by the book" in writing.
remkel
Minister of Fire
Dealing with insurance reps all the time, all I can say is they need to be educated. I would continue to educate them on your stove specs and if they continue to be a pain, talk to your agent about how you are going to have to seek another agency. Usually $$$ talks with these people.
All I had to do was have the local FD conduct an inspection and when the insurance company came to my house, saw the installation and the FD approval all was good. I will also try to find the NFPA regulations governing this for you.
All I had to do was have the local FD conduct an inspection and when the insurance company came to my house, saw the installation and the FD approval all was good. I will also try to find the NFPA regulations governing this for you.
Mrs. Krabappel
Minister of Fire
Man, my agent is a kitten!
"Can I have a woodstove in an old log cabin?" " yep."
"Can I have a trampoline with lots of random kids jumping on it and without all that annoying safety netting?" " yep."
"Can I have a big mean black dog without a fence?" "yep."
"Do you care that my wiring is probably antebellum?" "nope." Okay, that one is a bit of an exaggeration. Just a wee bit.
"Can I have a woodstove in an old log cabin?" " yep."
"Can I have a trampoline with lots of random kids jumping on it and without all that annoying safety netting?" " yep."
"Can I have a big mean black dog without a fence?" "yep."
"Do you care that my wiring is probably antebellum?" "nope." Okay, that one is a bit of an exaggeration. Just a wee bit.
Fechmup
Member
While it's the right idea, don't bother wasting your time educating State Farm. There are a lot of other insurance companies where your money is better spent, and after Katrina, State Farm needs you a lot more than you need them. I've used Amica, a Rhode Island based company, for nearly 10 years and I have no intentions of ever leaving. They're helpful, they pay claims quickly (not that I've ever had more than 1), and they follow up on a claims status to make sure you were happy.
Why don't I like State Farm?
1) When I was in my early 20's, I walked into my local State Farm office to set up an auto policy for myself. They asked me how old I was and then told me they weren't accepting new clients... 2) After my father passed, they completely dragged their feet in paying a small policy he had set up - as in 3 weeks and forced me to drive upstate to sign paperwork which confirmed my identity. People buy homes via fax machine, but I had to be there in person. The subsequent check that was in the mail was "lost," then "found" at their office. They screwed up the whole process. Liberty Mutual paid another policy in 24 hours.
Put your stove in your home and find a better company.
Best Wishes.
Why don't I like State Farm?
1) When I was in my early 20's, I walked into my local State Farm office to set up an auto policy for myself. They asked me how old I was and then told me they weren't accepting new clients... 2) After my father passed, they completely dragged their feet in paying a small policy he had set up - as in 3 weeks and forced me to drive upstate to sign paperwork which confirmed my identity. People buy homes via fax machine, but I had to be there in person. The subsequent check that was in the mail was "lost," then "found" at their office. They screwed up the whole process. Liberty Mutual paid another policy in 24 hours.
Put your stove in your home and find a better company.
Best Wishes.
I appreciate all the help. I think I found in the nfpa 12.6.2.3 where the clearances could be reduced if the appliance was listed. I think that's the way it reads. I believe I will take your advice and install the stove and then call for an inspection and show them the info. If that doesn't work I guess I'll be looking for another insurance company. So what do you think.
I have State Farm too. When I installed the insert in an existing exterior masonry chimney in fall 2009 (with fully insulated SS liner and blockoff plate), I called State Farm to see if there would be any problems.
Even though I had a building permit and passed inspection, State Farm jacked up my home insurance 20% to $1000+ at the next renewal.
Coincidence? I think not.
LESSON LEARNED: Don't call State Farm to ask questions on what you are planning to do (or are doing). Even if it it is all legit and passes building inspection, State Farm will look to find a reason to increase your premiums.
Even though I had a building permit and passed inspection, State Farm jacked up my home insurance 20% to $1000+ at the next renewal.
Coincidence? I think not.
LESSON LEARNED: Don't call State Farm to ask questions on what you are planning to do (or are doing). Even if it it is all legit and passes building inspection, State Farm will look to find a reason to increase your premiums.
jimbom
Combustion Analyzer
Dakotas Dad
Minister of Fire
LOTS of insurance companies out there...
I am in the same boat as ~*~Kathleen~*~
Want to ride crotch rockets again, at 50? OK.
Race your Mustang? OK.
Put in wood stove? OK, (they did want a picture of the install, sent the link in my sig.). And then they sent an email to tell me how nice it looked.
100+ lb dogs? OK.
I am in the same boat as ~*~Kathleen~*~
Want to ride crotch rockets again, at 50? OK.
Race your Mustang? OK.
Put in wood stove? OK, (they did want a picture of the install, sent the link in my sig.). And then they sent an email to tell me how nice it looked.
100+ lb dogs? OK.
It pays to shop around and ask questions. From the description it sounds like State Farm is trying to weasel around this one. What is it going to be like if you have to place a claim? FWIW, we shopped around last fall and switched. Gave them the details on the stove install, they said sounds good, and that was it. No premium penalty at all. Actually we ended up saving a bundle by switching. Should have done it a few years ago.
Black Jaque Janaviac
Feeling the Heat
Just run an add in your local paper.
Wanted To Buy:
House Insurance
You're sure to find someone who wants to insure your house more than State Farm does. In my area I have to admit that State Farm was pretty good about letting me install my Quadrafire according to manufacturer's specs. Although we dropped them anyway when we later learned that we were paying more in premiums than many of our neighbors, plus we had a higher deductable and got slower service when the city was hit with hail. That got all the neighbors comparing notes on insurance - we looked like suckers.
Wanted To Buy:
House Insurance
You're sure to find someone who wants to insure your house more than State Farm does. In my area I have to admit that State Farm was pretty good about letting me install my Quadrafire according to manufacturer's specs. Although we dropped them anyway when we later learned that we were paying more in premiums than many of our neighbors, plus we had a higher deductable and got slower service when the city was hit with hail. That got all the neighbors comparing notes on insurance - we looked like suckers.
jtp10181
Minister of Fire
Install it per MFG specs and get it inspected. If they still don't think its OK then find a new insurance agent.
You should not need to reduce clearances using the NFPA guidelines unless you plan on being closer than the mfg listed clearances. Take note of the minimum you can reduce to, often times this is greater than or very close to the tested specs already so you do not gain much on the modern jacketed stoves.
You should not need to reduce clearances using the NFPA guidelines unless you plan on being closer than the mfg listed clearances. Take note of the minimum you can reduce to, often times this is greater than or very close to the tested specs already so you do not gain much on the modern jacketed stoves.
jocam
Member
Same vein. I had a water claim when my sump float got caught on the ABS pipe coupling three inches below the trigger level. With a very wet spring, it did not run and we had a non-professional install of an indoor pool.
It was painful to watch all the water get drained away in a few short minutes once the pump float was dislodged. None the less, our insurance company ING or now Intact paid promptly and the insurance adjuster was a first rate guy. It was a pleasure.
However. our house insurance has popped 400$ a year for the past 4 years since the flood. It took me to this year to realize that.
I never told them I put an insert in our fireplace.
It was painful to watch all the water get drained away in a few short minutes once the pump float was dislodged. None the less, our insurance company ING or now Intact paid promptly and the insurance adjuster was a first rate guy. It was a pleasure.
However. our house insurance has popped 400$ a year for the past 4 years since the flood. It took me to this year to realize that.
I never told them I put an insert in our fireplace.
CT-Mike
Minister of Fire
buckstove said:
We use USAA, and their response was similar to above. No photo's, inspections, nothing. I highly recommend them if you are eligible.
ChillyGator
New Member
I walked in the front door of the local State Farm agency, said I might need to make a declaration on my policy since I have installed a wood stove in my existing fire place. "Existing fireplace?......according to code?........no problem, have a nice day". I turned and walked out a happy man.......I KID U NOT.
Now one doesn't want to try and get new hurricane insurance around here :coolmad:
Now one doesn't want to try and get new hurricane insurance around here :coolmad:
Bigg_Redd
Minister of Fire
speace1025 said:
Let 'em drop you. There's lots of insurers out there and some of them don't even have their heads up their @$$E$.
I use State Farm. They asked if the stove was put in to the specs of the specific stove, I said yes.. Done. No inspection....
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