PB-105 Not starting up

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briley

New Member
Oct 18, 2010
5
Eastern CT
Hi everyone,

We have a PB-105 that we had installed 2 years ago. The first year was tough, we experienced the now common issue with the hump in the burnpot, but once we got that replaced everything was running perfectly for a year and a half. I just went through and cleaned everything out and tried to fire it up to make sure everything was working before the season started but it doesn't do anything.

Here's what happens when I turn it to TEST on the control panel:
Combustion motor light is on but the fan doesn't kick on so there's no airflow
Overheat light comes on
No light or activity from the feeder

I took the little side panel off of the auger and cleaned out all of the pellet dust and when I manually turn it the slide plate is moving and unobstructed. I cleaned out the combustion motor area, boiler chamber, burn pot and fines chamber where the ignitor is, as well as the flue. I did this all last year and had no issues.

What can I test to see where the issue lies? What should be coming on first, what would stop the TEST cycle from initiating?

PS I also noticed a small hump beginning to form in the burnpot.
 
not a ton of experience on pellet stoves ,but tmy guess is the fan is getting power but the blade is stuck {because there is a bird in there} if not check to see if you are getting power to fan motor.
 
It's one of two things.

Either you have a leaky seal which means you don't have a vacuum and the vacuum switch won't allow the combustion blower to turn on.

Or you have a bad combustion motor.

I seem to get about two years out of a combustion motor before it wears out.

You can test to see if it's the seal or the motor by taking the wires off the top and bottom of the vacuum switch and then sticking a wire into both connectors. If you hear the combustion motor come on then you have a leak someplace.

If you don't hear the combustion fan come on but the feed motor starts up you have a bad blower.

Andy
 
Did you remove the combustion blower to clean it when you cleaned the boiler? If not, this needs to be done to make sure the motor turns freely. When you have it out, with a helper to hold the motor and an old lamp cord connected to the spade connectors, tape the wires into the connectors, plug it into a 120 volt outlet to see if it will run. I'm wondering why the overheat light is on. ????
 
Briley,

Any luck getting your PB105 to run?

Curious minds want to know.

Andy
 
Sorry for the delay in my response everyone. This PB105 has been an absolute hell ride for us.

So the tech came and the combustion motor was indeed dead. He replaced that and then checked the voltage running to it (he assumed maybe it was getting too much and burned itself out). It was only getting 103 volts and the feed motor was getting only 94 but 120 was going in to the main board. He called Harman and they said that this was too low and to replace the board. I was really upset about changing the board, I've become superstitious now with the damn PB and didn't want him fiddling with it too much since last season went smoothly. Unfortunately it turns out I was right in fearing a new board!

2 days after he left (with the new combustion motor and computer board in place) it went into a 7 light blink (overheat) signal which I discovered after work. I shut the main power down and let it sit for 30 seconds before powering back on. Turned it back on and the fan came on but no feed motor. I put it into Test and everything worked fine so I started fiddling with the knobs trying different settings, when I put it on manual ignition and turned it on, the combustion fan kicked on and the feed motor kicked on so I flipped it back to auto since it had started feeding and then everything went fine.

2 or 3 days after that we I again came home to a 7 blink status. I reset it again from the breaker box and this time it started normally, but we started getting big backfires ... house shakes, smoke detectors go off (we don't have the outside air line connected, its just pulling from the basement).

Tech came back and changed the dipswitch settings to reduce the feed rate. Backfires went away but I noticed that the handles (the ones that use use to clean the pipes off) were getting a little harder to work and had some gunk on them. I would work them out and then scrape them down with a wire brush and slide them in and out until they were clear. I did my biweekly cleanout of the burnpot and found a clump of glowing/smoldering half burned up pellets in the ash pan.

Yesterday I just happened to be down in the basement and could hear hissing and bubbling. I walked over and saw that it was in a 7 blink status and that the temp gauge was maxed at 260! I turned the unit off but the feed motor was still going. I couldn't get it to stop until I cut the power from the main breaker panel. I let it sit for 30 seconds with no power and then turned it back on. As soon as the power was back on the feed motor started up and the fan kicked in (with the unit in the off position!). Our backup oil boiler is on the same line so I couldn't leave the breaker off (see below) so I had to disconnect the wiring from the feed motor.

Throughout these past 2 weeks it has been leaking water out of the dump valve so I have a bucket under it. I thought perhaps some sediment had gotten in there but I guess it was doing it because it was overheating all the time. this time though it wasn't shutting down.

I opened it up once the fire was out in the burnpot and found that the ash pan was red hot. There were so many glowing red and smoldering pellets in the pan that you couldn't see any ashes. Upon examining the pipe from outside I found that it was dripping creosote/tar. 2 of the cleaning rods were completely seized. The creosote buildup is no doubt caused from the pellets that are slowly burning up in the ash pan rather than in the burn pot.

Upon examining the wiring when the tech was over to replace the combustion motor we found that the kill switch on the side of the unit was only wired to cut the power to our circulator pump not the boiler itself.

I contacted my dealer this morning and ironically a tech from Harman is supposed to be up at their office on Wednesday. He asked me to come out there and talk to them about the issues. I am going to demand that the unit be replaced with one that's not a lemon (if they have such a thing) or remove the unit from my house, refund me for the cost of the unit and buy me out of my 5 tons of pellets.

I am burning Hamer's hot Ones and Okanagans so I'm not using poor quality stuff, this product is just junk, I could never recommend it to anyone!

Please let me know what issues you all have had, I know I'm not the only one out there and Harman needs to do something about it. I'm on the 2nd combustion motor, 2nd burn pot, 2nd esp probe, 5th computer board, and 8th ignitor.

Thanks for your help and advice before and again I apologize for the delay in responding.
 
Will do PelletGun,

Have any of your customers experienced similar issues with their PB105s? I thought I had a lemon for a while but the more I read the more I think I'm not alone.
 
Briley,

You are so not alone! Some of these are known issues with the product, but others seemed to be unique. With any product there is the chance that one element will go bad, maybe two if you are unlucky. While it may feel like you've got a lemon on your hands, it is likely that the issues are all tied to one hard failure (the board) and possibly some installation or assembly issue (wiring of the kill switch you describe). Know that there are very successful installations of the PB out there. Short of a few factory known issues of ignitors and burn chambers (meaning that Harman knows about and actively addresses them), these can be reliable units if properly installed and maintained. Your dealer should be able to make it right, but if you've lost confidence I would suggest contacting Harman directly.

As a manufacturer we would want to know if one of our dealers or installers was not offering 100% support and customer satisfaction and I'm sure the folks at Harman woudl feel the same way!
 
Briley,
How long have you had your boiler? By the number of failures that you have experienced, particularly igniters, it sounds like you have had it for quite a long time.
 
Briley,
Had I taken the time to throughly read this post I would have seen that you had the PB105 for two years! What a dummy....sorry
 
Hi everyone,

Sorry for the long delay in posting this resolution I had wanted the now operational PB105 to run for a few weeks to make sure that everything is again working properly.

A trainer for Harman had happened to be coming up to my dealer, Fireside Supply of Hebron Connecticut, so they scheduled to bring him out to our house to see the unit. While they were there they realized that the ash pan door had become warped during one of the explosion backfires and was probably causing our combustion issues and the massive creosote buildup. They did some diagnostic work and found that the voltages were incorrect to the feed motor and this was probably what was creating the initial ignition problems which caused the explosions. No one could explain the fact that the water temp got up to over 260 degrees without the overheat sensor killing the unit.

We were fairly hard on the Harman guy and demanded that they get the issue resolved by ordering the parts and assuring us that we could have faith in Harman and that they stand by their product. Here's a list of what we got:
A new ash pan door with an pressure relief plate like the one that is mounted under the hopper on the side of the unit
A new higher powered feed motor
A new burnpot (the stainless steel heavy duty one) with a new ignitor (a long one without the fins) and an air pump that blows air directly over the ignitor and burnpot. I guess its the same setup as their corn stove ignition system
A new overheat sensor installed by our dealer which monitors the temp in the pipe leaving the unit and will open one of our zones to disperse the heat if it builds up ever again. This is a safety in case the PB's overheat sensor fails again.

Harman had some issues getting the parts out to us but they did get here eventually and our dealer got them installed and our system up and running quickly. They have been great throughout the entire issue and have bent over backwards to make sure that the product is working and that we're satisfied with it. I just wish Harman would make it easier for Fireside Supply to handle these sorts of issues. They seem to push back on the dealer over every little issue when they obviously know these parts are failing for many people.

Anyway, sorry for the delay and thanks again to you all for your advice!
 
Hello Briley,
Wow sounds like you had a tough time getting going with your 105. I can share your frustration with the igniter issue. I have had over a dozen in three years. My unit has been very reliable except for the burnpot cracking and the igniter issue. Although I am benching it for the winter to see how my electric boiler compares price wise. (oops sacrilidge I know)
I have also had good luck running mine in manual mode when the weather gets colder, and noticed no real difference in pellet consumption. Hope things work out and you get it running well. I too found Harman not very interested in solving problems, they just expect the dealer to fix it all.
 
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