In response to Sugars question on Europas gasification techniques.

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Master of Smoke said:
So...If I understand this Europa 75 was sold by originator for a while...then Sold to FPI for a while...then bought back by originator and still is owned by them now.

So... Serial Numbers of 00001-xxxxx are good ones...S/N's of xxxx1-yyyy9 are FPI (Bad) and S/N's zzzz1-current are good ones again.

So...other than S/N's, how do you spot a FPI?
Click to expand...

FPI Models have 9 digit serial numbers, all numbers. The ones made by Dell Point (pre fpi) and Paromax (post fpi but same maker) are alpha numeric, will generally begin and end with the letter A and be 6 characters, for example A1234A.
 
We have abt 3000sq ft home and I have been using the Europa since 2005 as my primary heat source. The first year was great heat output. But then then unit stopped working mid-Feb, and I was told the unit was recalled, and the company replaced it in 2006. The replacement unit never gave off as much heat, and I have had on-going problems with it. I have replaced the auger screws numerous times. This year, I decided to buy a whole new unit, to avoid any mid-season issues. I replaced the part, no problems. Hahaha. Problem #1, I cannot seem to maintain an ashbed. Even if I lower the ash extraction to 1, the ashbed is non-existent. Problem #2, therefore, I am not getting very much heat from the unit. Problem #3, the mini helix setting are a joke, because even if I crank up the combustion, and keep the extraction at 1, I do not get the correct readings. I barely hover around the 2. This morning, we woke up to a cold house, the stove was out, and the E1 message did not make sense, because there was a full hopper. (could it be my ash bed was just too low?) The feed auger is working tempermentally. We just emptied the hopper (always fun), disassembled the auger, seemed to release some pellets that way, put it back together, and started it up. The auger is turning, but not always are pellets being dropped. About 2/3 of the time. I am getting fed up with this Europa. Read some old post from Frank offering a trial unit to a customer in CT—- is that offer still good? The unit worked well in the past, and I don’t feel like it’s old enough to have to replace. Is my unit just a lemon? Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
 
Since this is an old thread, you might want to send Franks a PM to get his attention about your problems....especially on a Sunday night.
 

I don't understand "gasification" and other terms mentioned here. I bought a Dell Point Europa 75 as an affordable source of heat. With a global energy crisis and threats to our environment due to petroleum mining, we need alternative fuels but pellet stove technology hasn't reached a level that the average person can master.
With time, I hope that these stoves become easier to maintain.
As it is, I am skeptical about pellet stove marketing, like that of the Europa, because it preys on the idealism of the consumer. They need to develop more effective consumer education/customer service that fulfill their promo photos of happily smiling families around the stove.
 
A note to Linda & Stu...I live in northern Indiana and my experience with the Dell Point Europa has been much the same as yours: sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...with lots of phone calling, research and repairing in between.
When I submitted my previous post, I had been reading an earlier discussion on this thread related to the technology and efficiency of the Europa. Evidently, I hadn't read til the end of the thread, so I'm sure my previous post sounded rather unrelated.
Tonight, I'm trying to maintain the fuel level on the burn pot. I have the settings down to the recommended level but there doesn't seem to be fuel even up to the bottom of the burn pot. I think the recommended burn pot fuel level is 5" from the top!
Also someone on another thread mentioned air leaks and I found out tonight before lighting the stove that the lower ash extraction chamber gasket is not sealing at all! So now I have in store an involved procedure to replace this gasket and seal up the air leaks; apparently a manufacturer flaw.
That's what is so astonishing to me about the Europa--the amount of research and maintenance that they expect of the consumer, despite their own mistakes.
I get my best help from this chatroom. The dealer and the manufacturer (Regency, FPI) are evasive and endlessly "pass the buck."
What continues to motivate me? The alternative of those staggering utility bills!
I hope the fire will burn brighter someday for all of us in pellet world!
 
EmmaZ said:

I don't understand "gasification" and other terms mentioned here. I bought a Dell Point Europa 75 as an affordable source of heat. With a global energy crisis and threats to our environment due to petroleum mining, we need alternative fuels but pellet stove technology hasn't reached a level that the average person can master.
With time, I hope that these stoves become easier to maintain.
As it is, I am skeptical about pellet stove marketing, like that of the Europa, because it preys on the idealism of the consumer. They need to develop more effective consumer education/customer service that fulfill their promo photos of happily smiling families around the stove.
Click to expand...
I am very skeptical of the consumer marketing by Dell Point and now Paromax for the Europa 75. It is blatantly misleading in my opinion. There are many reputable brands on the market today that deliver what they promise. My Harmen for example runs 24/7 with minimal maintenance, great dealer support, while significantly reducing my energy costs and carbon footprint. What more could I ask for?
 

I've also heard that the Harmen is reliable. A reputable company should stand behind its product--I'm glad to hear that the customer support for the Harmen is good.
I know I sound like a broken record...but I bought the Europa and I'm "stuck with it." Some of the owners here on this site are very happy with it, so apparently some models work well. But they seem to have authorized the sale of some lemons as well.
It would be great if the pellet/biomass stove industry established a better protocol for consumer vs. manufacturer responsibility for maintenance, repair, upkeep. I'm not a dealer or expert tinkerer like many others on this site. But wouldn't manufacturers want to appeal to "the average Joe"? It occurs to me that that's where the wider market would be. I mean, how many mechanical geniuses are out there to keep the pellet stove industry prosperous?
Okay, my burn pot level on my Europa 75 is a bit higher today. But I have the combustion fan/ash extraction setting on 5 and the manual says it's supposed to be on 8.
I re-read the instructions from many helpful friends on this site and my current shopping list includes: LED headlamp, high temp copper grease, RTV sealant and Rutland gasket cement. Someone said that repairing air leaks to the lower ash extraction chamber takes under and hour. But the instructions are very daunting for me.
It's all a learning process, right?
 
BDPVT said:
EmmaZ said:

I don't understand "gasification" and other terms mentioned here. I bought a Dell Point Europa 75 as an affordable source of heat. With a global energy crisis and threats to our environment due to petroleum mining, we need alternative fuels but pellet stove technology hasn't reached a level that the average person can master.
With time, I hope that these stoves become easier to maintain.
As it is, I am skeptical about pellet stove marketing, like that of the Europa, because it preys on the idealism of the consumer. They need to develop more effective consumer education/customer service that fulfill their promo photos of happily smiling families around the stove.
Click to expand...
I am very skeptical of the consumer marketing by Dell Point and now Paromax for the Europa 75. It is blatantly misleading in my opinion. There are many reputable brands on the market today that deliver what they promise. My Harmen for example runs 24/7 with minimal maintenance, great dealer support, while significantly reducing my energy costs and carbon footprint. What more could I ask for?
Click to expand...

Yup, unfounded claims or claims made in a way the typical consumer cant understand dont do much to promote your product or company. Claude has been told this. He was willing to donate a stove to Craig (webmaster) so he can run a true side by side test. If the Europa heats the same as brand X and uses 30% less fuel with lower mainanence, Craig would give Claude some free advertising. If not, Craig gets to keep the stove for free. I got very busy at the office since then, Craig had family health issues and Claudes technology was finally picked up and understood by a company in France and one in Canada (Names cant be released yet as per Claude) So Claude hasnt been pushing for the test either.

Locally, I know what the stove can do for my customers. I have existing customers that will testify on the pellet savings they saw when switching over, so I can send new prospects over to speak with them. Since Paromax started making the stoves again, they have worked fine. The issues people are having are folks that bought the Regency version thru lousy dealers who dont give a crap about their customers. Again, anyone with a Europa from Regency can always call Claude directly and try to get some further help. Just PM or email me for his direct number and extension.

Maybe Webmaster will see that this post is still floating around and come up with a good test. It would be great for the industry. Keep in mind, I no longer distribute the Europa. I dont need to market it locally, as its reputation does that alone, so I have no vested interest in this test for personal gain. I just think that if Claudes claims are true and he can bring this technology to market, it would lessen our dependence on biomass, help keep pellet costs down, etc.
 
Thanks for your post. About contacting Claude directly, I recently emailed Paromax with a specific question about the proper installation of the upper augur motor assembly. It seems like a simple enough question to me. Claude emailed me back without answering my question. He said only: "Contact the manufacturer" (604-946-5155 manufacturer, 866-946-5155 technical) When I contacted Regency, they said "contact the dealer." My dealer, who has sometimes assisted, is also chronically MIA. Yes, I contacted them yesterday and they just said "We'll get back to you." (the same thing they said in November and December of last year) I feel like a cat chasing its tail. It's such a familiar pattern--I wish they would be more direct.
 
Dont email him, give him a call at (877) 419-9877 ext 221. He has been trying help Regency customers in the past. As I mentioned, he is starting to get very busy now that the industry has caught on to his technology, so he may be harder to reach
 

Thanks. I might sound like a whiner, but it is frustrating to get the runaround. I called 604-946-5155 today and talked with someone who sounded knowledgeable. I had been doubtful about the way I re-installed the upper augur motor assembly. Someone at the dealer said that I would need tapered set screws to make it tighten securely into place. (This was someone who said he'd look it up in his Europa info & send me photocopies about correct installation but he never did)
Well, the person at this number I called (I didn't catch his name) said that the upper augur motor needs to have some play in it; "the moving parts bring the pellets down," and that it is normal for it to be not totally tight. He also said that it's ok for it to be secured with 2 "short, heavy, silver big-headed screws on either side of the collar." When I first had looked at it, one screw was missing and I found a few loose screws in the bottom of the stove. So I had my doubts about which screws I should use to re-install it. And the dealer had said I needed tapered-end set screws.
This might sound trivial but I wanted to be sure it was re-installed right. The reason I had taken out the upper augur motor assembly was because it looked twisted and I had been having trouble starting my stove, getting an F5 reading...and the black wire is connected to Pin 7 on the control panel, "augur feed." The guy on the phone was concerned that I might have accidentally switched the yellow and black wires where they connect to the motor. He said that it would cause the upper augur motor to revolve the wrong way until it worked its way up into the hopper. Wow! But I feel confident that I re-installed the wires right because the motor was marked in black on one side to indicate where the black wire should connect.
Appreciate your help!
 
2 round head , straight slot screws hold the auger assembly in place. The motor swings on the shaft. When the motor runs, it is stopped from rotating by an angle or channel iron (I'm not taking it apart to look). If it is not pushing fuel it will rotate a bit but will not move in and out very far. While you have it this far apart, empty the hopper and carefully remove both wires, yellow +, black -, mine is labeled, (it's a DC motor, if it runs backwards, reverse the wires) remove the two screws and pull out the auger. You will make a mess and learn just how simple this setup is to clear from a jam. I have had to remove rocks and nails. Jams will blow a fuse. Never has stopped on dust, cobs or stems. Eats big pellets too. Open the control panel door. All of the Error Messages are listed there with a short description of what happened. And the clips holding the fuses break easily, so be careful when changing fuses.
KK (and HF)

PS: The description what happens to the fuel bed is "Pyrolysis".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolysis
 
Thanks, Kernel. I actually have taken this assembly out before, because my previous stove had frequent upper augur jams. The dealer said those jams happened because the pellets I was using had too much sawdust. Anyway, my memory was that this assembly was supposed to fit in tightly, but my memory is probably wrong...because it is not a procedure that I do frequently.
Now I need to get the RTV sealant and seal the "tear drop" for the ash extraction chamber air leak. As for the fuel level in the bed, I did adjust the settings as Irishman suggested (combustion: 7, ash extraction: 1). Now the window is full of soot and I'm just too cowardly to open it and check the fuel...so I'm hoping for the best.
I appreciate your expertise, it is very helpful.
 
No worries on opening the door while the stove is burning.
Wear Gloves and long sleeves.
Use a cotton towel/Rag.
Keep it in a container/pail by the stove for that rag.
Just open the door an inch or so and wait a few seconds for the fire to calm down.
Then open the door with your right hand and wipe the soot down with your left.
As for settings every stove is different.
You need to learn what your stove needs.
Do you have the 2 exhaust restrictor plates?
After you seal your top ring, you may still need to reduce your draft.
KK
 
Thanks. Any kind of gloves will do? (to wear while opening the stove door)
Regarding the restrictor plates, I do have two 4 1/2" square metal plates, that I found in a plastic bag with other stove stuff after the dealer came to install my 2nd (replacement) stove in 2008. Both plates have a 1" diameter hole in the middle and a small hole in each corner (5 holes total). They came with an identical square of felt or nylon. Are these the restrictor plates? I will check on previous posts to see if you already explained what to do with them.
It's 5 degrees out today so heat is needed! Take care!
 
So I unclogged my augar for the hopper, but when I went to raise the temp after I lowered it in the day, I am unable to get it past "3" is one of those fuses used to raise the heat any help would be grateful it a dell point gf 75 2006.
 
Fsappo said:
Ok, Sugar, and to anyone else interested. Of course, I'll enjoy doing this because I use a Europa, made by Paromax, in my showroom and I also sell them. Any chance to learn more about this technology by way of discussion is good for me and my customers. You asked for links, so I will just include them with a brief description.

This is one that talks about the 94.9% heat exchanger efficiency of the stove using the lower heat value.
http://www.paromax.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=12&lang=en

Here is where they list the 10-1 fuel to air ratio. They are still updating their website. Some of the text talks about 86% efficiency, which was the testing from about 6 years ago. When they re tested the stove this year for the tax credit, it tested at 94.9%
http://www.paromax.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6&Itemid=13&lang=en

The certificate
http://www.paromax.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10&Itemid=17&lang=en

http://www.pelletstove.com/ if you click on efficiency report it shows more

Statistical information was taken from:
'Options to Reduce Emissions from Residential Wood Burning Appliances
Canadian Government Discussion Paper of July 30, 2002'

Table 6: Net efficiency (%) of various wood heating appliances

Note: Net efficiency rests on combustion efficiency and heat transfer efficiency.


Aside from the obvious savings
by heating with an efficient Dell-Point
pellet stove, it also means that
a charge of fuel will last longer and there is
less unwanted exhaust gases and
particulate.

In other words:
* More heat for you dollar
* Better for the environment
* Less time cleaning out ash
* Add fuel less frequently








Try the Fuel Cost Calculator to see how much money you can save!

Dell-Point has the only EPA certified pellet stove available. Other pellet stoves have an EPA exemption
which is allowed since they use high air to fuel ratios (normally 35 lbs of air to 1 lb of fuel). This allows
their high amount of particulate levels to be distributed over more air, allowing for this exemption.
The Dell-Point 'Gas-a-fire' burn system uses 8 lbs of air to every 1 lb of fuel and still maintains low particulate levels
(which means that's it's far more efficient). Furthermore, there is more heat going to you, and
far less (up to 50%) going out the exhaust!

Type of Stove Net Efficiency (%)
Conventional wood stove 54%
Catalytic wood stove 68%
Non-certified pellet stove 33.4% to 70.5%
Dell-Point certified pellet stove 86%
Masonary heater 54% to 65%


Dell-Points Patented EPA certified Technology:
As tested by Canada Advanced Combustion Labs Government of Canada

Calculation of staciometric products actual products and efficiency

Unit: DC-2000 Burn Rate: 1.08 Kg/h

Fuel: Wood pellets (B415.1 std values) Date: 98-11-03

ULTIMATE Dry Calorific Value (MJ/kg) 19.81 8517 BTU/lb)
ANALYSIS (dry basis) Fuel Moisture (% wet basis) 6.3 6.7 % db)
Carbon 48.73 As-Fired C.V. (MJ/kg) >18.56 7980 BTU/lb)
Hydrogen 6.87 Flue Gas Values: % Combustible in Ash: 0
Sulphur 0 % CO2 9.5 from O2: 9.46 CONVERSION FACTORS:
Nitrogen 0 % O2 10.8 from CO2: 10.75 Mj/kg = BTU/lb*.002326
Ash 0.5 % CO 0.015 F = 9/5*C+32 C+ 5/9*(F-32)
Oxygen 43.9 Flue © 93 199 F MC(wb) = MC(db)/(100+MC (db))
Total 100 Amb't © 20 68 F MC(db) = MC(wb)/(100-MC (wb))
LOSSES BTU/lb BTU/lb
Air & Flue Gas From co2 From o2 dry fuel as fired
% Excess Air 104.63 105.57 dfg 401 376 4.71
Comb'n air (Sft3/lb fuel) 154.5 155.2 Fuel H2O 75 70 0.88
Dfg (lb/lb dry fuel) 12.8 12.9 H2 688 644 8.08
Tfg (lb/lb dry fuel) 13.5 13.5 CO 8 7 0.04
Dfg (Aft3/lb dry fuel) 205.2 206.1 Comb. In ash 0
Dfg (Sft3/lb dry fuel) 153.3 154.0 Total Loss 1171 1097 13.70
Tfg (Aft3/lb dry fuel) 223.4 224.3 % Efficiency 86.3
Tfg (Sft3/lb dry fuel) 166.9 167.6
CO (lb/lb dry fuel) 0.002 0.002
Vol fraction H2O in flue 0.081 0.081
Products of Combustion at Stociometric
STOCIOMETRIC VALUES lb/lb Sft3/lb
Stociometric Air Req'd(lb/lb dry fuel) dry fuel dry fuel
Carbon (32/12.011*.01*C) 1.298 Stociometric CO2 1.786 14.57
Hydrogen (8/1.008-.01-H) 0.545 Stociometric N2 4.663 59.75
Sulphur (32/32.066*.066*.01*S) 0.000 Stociometric SO2 0.000 0.00
Total 1.844 Total dfg
6.448 74.32
Less )2 in fuel 0.439 Wet products
O2 from air 1.405 H2O (reaction) 0.614 12.23
Associated N2 (76.85/23.15*.02) 4.663 H2O (fuel) 0.067 1.34
Total dry air: 6.067 Total flue gas 7.129 87.89
Stociometric % CO2: 19.6


Tell me if that helps, Sugar
Click to expand...

I'm intrigued, any chance I might get some contact info.?
 
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