Older style EKO -- Finally starting to figure them out

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sdrobertson

Minister of Fire
Aug 13, 2007
735
West Michigan
I have a older EKO 60 that I am burning and this is my 3rd year with it. It was 5 years old or so when I got it but it was never hooked up. I have the older style controller (reads in Celsius and it doesn't have a variable speed setting for the fans), no terbulators, a flat bottom in the upper chamber, and they were built at that time with a really flimsy front cover that holds the fans. My boiler, and one other (tacoman's, if I remember right, and maybe barnartist's also) came from the factory with the secondary air settings punched into the front cover 3/4"'s to low so the secondary air could not be adjusted properly. I fixed the secondary's, cut firebrick to add to the bottom of the primary chamber so that it sloped towards the nozzles, modified the primary air slides to be able to move them with out having to remove the cover, and added chain terbulators. With every addition I did to the boiler, it would work better and I would keep getting happier that I had changed from the OWB. I'm finally ahead in the wood department this year and this helped me produce even more BTU's. With all of the changes, I would increase the heat output and lower the times when smoke would appear from the chimney. I spent most of last year, and all of this year trying to figure out where to set my air settings so that I would not loose coals over my front nozzle. I loaded the boiler every way possible with wood, but couldn't keep the damn coals on the front nozzle. I would always have gasification out the back nozzle, but I couldn't keep it going on the front so off and on I would have the chimney smoke. When I did have gasification out of both nozzles, the flame would be really different colors between the front and back. I started wondering if I may have misaligned air holes leading to the front nozzles. I started rereading some older posts, and came across the ones on placing a firebrick on one nozzle to cut the output during the should season.

Seeing as I always had problems with the front nozzle, I decided to shut that one down with firebrick. I'm on my second charging of my tanks and I finally got this beast working to its full potential. I opened the fan opening just a touch and I'm running the same stack temp as I was before but never loosing gasification in the front nozzle as it is blocked so no fuel can go down it. What I basically have now is a EKO 40 but with a larger firebox and more heat exchanger.

What my long rambling post is for is to say to anyone trying to decide between OWB or gasification, there is no comparison. My wood consumption was almost cut in half before I started to make changes to my boiler. I'm really excited to see where I end up this year as I am getting a full burn now. To those that hear my changes to the boiler and don't want to have to screw around making changes, keep in mind that this one is 8 or 9 years old and the new ones have all the changes I made already on them. Now I just have to get my lazy butt moving on replacing my lines from my pole barn to the house (long story, but I tried to go cheap......) to move my hard earned BTU's into the house.
 
sdrobertson said:
I have a older EKO 60 that I am burning and this is my 3rd year with it. It was 5 years old or so when I got it but it was never hooked up. I have the older style controller (reads in Celsius and it doesn't have a variable speed setting for the fans), no terbulators, a flat bottom in the upper chamber, and they were built at that time with a really flimsy front cover that holds the fans. My boiler, and one other (tacoman's, if I remember right, and maybe barnartist's also) came from the factory with the secondary air settings punched into the front cover 3/4"'s to low so the secondary air could not be adjusted properly. I fixed the secondary's, cut firebrick to add to the bottom of the primary chamber so that it sloped towards the nozzles, modified the primary air slides to be able to move them with out having to remove the cover, and added chain terbulators. With every addition I did to the boiler, it would work better and I would keep getting happier that I had changed from the OWB. I'm finally ahead in the wood department this year and this helped me produce even more BTU's. With all of the changes, I would increase the heat output and lower the times when smoke would appear from the chimney. I spent most of last year, and all of this year trying to figure out where to set my air settings so that I would not loose coals over my front nozzle. I loaded the boiler every way possible with wood, but couldn't keep the damn coals on the front nozzle. I would always have gasification out the back nozzle, but I couldn't keep it going on the front so off and on I would have the chimney smoke. When I did have gasification out of both nozzles, the flame would be really different colors between the front and back. I started wondering if I may have misaligned air holes leading to the front nozzles. I started rereading some older posts, and came across the ones on placing a firebrick on one nozzle to cut the output during the should season.

Seeing as I always had problems with the front nozzle, I decided to shut that one down with firebrick. I'm on my second charging of my tanks and I finally got this beast working to its full potential. I opened the fan opening just a touch and I'm running the same stack temp as I was before but never loosing gasification in the front nozzle as it is blocked so no fuel can go down it. What I basically have now is a EKO 40 but with a larger firebox and more heat exchanger.

What my long rambling post is for is to say to anyone trying to decide between OWB or gasification, there is no comparison. My wood consumption was almost cut in half before I started to make changes to my boiler. I'm really excited to see where I end up this year as I am getting a full burn now. To those that hear my changes to the boiler and don't want to have to screw around making changes, keep in mind that this one is 8 or 9 years old and the new ones have all the changes I made already on them. Now I just have to get my lazy butt moving on replacing my lines from my pole barn to the house (long story, but I tried to go cheap......) to move my hard earned BTU's into the house.
Glad it's working for you. If you don't get any "huffing" out of it the one nozzle is doing a good job. I'm still learning on my Atmos & hope to get this sorted too, Randy
 
No more huffing so far....I did have it when I was running both nozzles. Next spring I'm going to tear it apart to see if I'm right and the secondary air tubes are misaligned. I'm just glad I no longer have the frustration of running out of coals on one nozzle.
 
Thanks nofossil....I'll be honest that I wish I would have tried to fix the front nozzle along time ago. I just went out to refill the boiler and I looked in the bottom chamber and I have glowing refractory blocks. I have never had those before. I remember your older post on trying different refractory in the bottom of yours and it didn't hold up. Hopefully now, I'll have to replace my U-shaped blocks in the distance future :cheese:
 
sdrobertson, Glad to hear things are working out for you. I have an oler EKO40Super that insurance made me decommission. So I want to build an out door gassification unit with the larger primary chamber. I liked my 40 but it just did not have enough fuel capacity (idler with no storage i.e. never got that far). Your statement about the 60 turned 40 and working better only piques my interest. I do have a few questions or so if you would be willing to address them.
Doesn't the EKO60 have eight tubes in the heat exchanger? (the 40 only has 6). Though we may have covered it in an earlier converstaion...do you know the length of your nozzle? Front to back what is the length of your primary chamber? Do you have or does it look like you have a water jacket between the primary and secondary chambers. Are your load times longer between intervals? Lastly, are you cutting/loading your wood in a specific manner to allow the wood to "gravitate" to the active nozzle?

EKO's used a plastic tube in their nozzle blocks that melts and burns out of the nozzle on initial firing of the boiler. Not that I think you have a piece of plastic in the way of your forward nozzle but there may have been a casting problem and there could be a deffect in your forward nozzle block. (just something else to consider when you do your secondary tubes check? Thanks for your help!
 
Always good to hear someone satisfied.
I have only run my 60 with the rear nozzle blocked (this is my second season). I use the front nozzle so the hot gasses have more time in the lower chamber to transfer heat to the water surrounding the lower chamber. I thought about uncovering it and trying both but it has worked so well that I never did.
I only run one of the fans also. I find that it works best at full speed though.

Regarding Cave2k's question; the 60 has 2 1"x8" nozzles, the 40 has 1 1"x8". I cut 24" long for easier handling and quicker drying, the 60 will take up to 30" though.
 
My 60 has 16 tubes in the heat exchanger and they are just a bit smaller than 2". I think all of the EKO's were built the same way on the fronts for the primary and secondary settings. I'm loading the boiler with the wood all the way to the back right over the nozzle that I'm burning and my wood is cut roughly 24 inches or so. I'm getting allot more heat out of the wood now, so I'm building a pyramid over the nozzle while trying to keep the wood from touching the sides of the boiler so I'm not getting any bridging. I rebuild my pyramid ever 3 to 4 hours while charging the tanks. Now that I have ran the boiler this way for a while, I don't think I will even mess with trying to figure out the front nozzle now. I'm thinking I'll just run with the back until it really starts to get worn, then switch to the front one. Now I have one spare fan, and a spare nozzle to work with :lol:
 
Hello again to all I've been away from the site for a little while. Sdrob your right I do have a 60 standard, and continue to run it full time.. I am happier with my EKO this year than I've ever been, like you, I continue to make trial and error changes to attempt to maximize my operation boiler and piping. I dug around and decided to post some old pics in no particular order, hope you don't mind.
 

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Good to hear from you again. The new refractory blocks look really cool and I can't wait to hear how they work out for you. My blocks are still in really good shape so I wont replace them yet but I'm thinking about placing some firebrick on top of them to make them look like the new ones.

P.S. Old boiler porn is still good boiler porn ;-P
 
LOL boiler porn.. To be honest with you I have not replaced my factory U blocks either although 1 is bkoken in half its still very useable.. I was trying some extra fire brick in the bottom chamber but I found myself right back to the basic approach. Standard fire brick in the rear stood up on end, 1 factory U block, a standard firebrick lieing down in between the 2 U shaped blocks( this leaves a gap between the U shape blocks in between the nozzles), the second U block, then a standard brick standing on end in front tight to the door which leaves a good gap at the front. So from the front to the back vertical brick,U block,horizontal brick,U block, vertical brick.
 
My confusion. For some reason I was thinking that you were the one who had purchased the new blocks. I went back and looked and it was bulldogAcres who posted earlier that had bought them.
 
I did toy with several setups.. But only using extra fire brick..I tried gettin fancy but I had to go back to the basics..
 

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Hey I just found this post and could not be more interested.
I gave up on trying to get rid of my smoke, so now I see there is hope. I too have the same issues.
SRob, can you tell me a detailed list of how you now have your air settings. and how you blocked off the nozzle? I have always wondered if I should have chosen the 40 because of this issue. Like you there never seemed to be a good way to load the boiler unless the wood was cut differently.

I am about a week away from moving to 100% radiant heating and no more forced air, I am expecting big changes in my loading schedule. I am excited to give this a try!
 
I started with covering the front nozzle as stated above because the rear nozzle was the one that always seemed to burn better. I started with a regular fire brick that is about 3 x 4 x 8 inches and placed it directly over the front nozzle with the edge closest to the rear nozzle as close to the edge of the front nozzle as possible so that I had more room to place wood directly over the rear nozzle. Over the summer I will get a thin brick (I think they go down to 1") as I have to pick out shorter pieces of wood so that they fit directly on the rear nozzle as the 3" brick will hold up one end of my longer pieces of wood when I restart the boiler. During operation I have coals over the nozzle to make up the 3" space so this doesn't make a difference. I have my primary air down to 8mm and this is as far down as I can go as the slides are tight up against welds. I may take the front cover off and grind down the welds as I think I will be able to shut them down farther. My secondary air is 4 1/2 to 5 turns as I have adjusted them over time and I can't really remember. I still have the old controller so I have to have the fan at 100 percent and I have the opening at approximately 1/2. I installed a timer and I have been using this to shut down the boiler and I have been able to save a few coals to make start-ups easier. When I'm around the boiler I have been playing with the fan shutter gradually moving it farther open as the load of wood is used up (really poor mans Lambda control based on internal stack temp :) ). Before I blocked the nozzle my stack temps would run between 250 to 350 depending on if I had both nozzles running. The primarys at 9 to 11mm. Presently I'm running at 325 at reload, and it runs at 300ish for the major part of the load and I reload when it dips to 250ish. Before I changed, I would clean out the heat exchanger tubes every two weeks and would have to use my homemade spadebit scrapper to clean the tubes with allot of crud scrapping off every cleaning. A week ago I shut down to clean and I pulled one set of chain turbulators and ran a brush down to remove the fly ash and decided that I really didn't need to clean the rest. I was totally amazed that there was no buildup.

Most of my problems before this year was based mostly on my wood supply not being dry enough and this is a fact I cannot deny. I made this change this year with the same wood supply that I started with so this is why I felt that I have a problem somewhere with air control as the flames were different when I used two nozzles but I haven't experimented enough to figure out exactly what that is.

*EDIT* On thing I forgot.....I did find that when I completely clean out the upper chamber I would have cover to the edges of the fire brick with ashes as I would leak a small amount of smoke around the brick. This helped completely seal the edges.
 
You have convinced me to try that again. I think when I tried it before I had greener wood and it kept bridging. I have to say I never have bridging issues these days with dry wood. My wood pile is getting low so I have had to mix in some of next years wood to suppliment. I can really tell the difference because I have lots of 3/4" coals in my lower chamber after each burn.
I dont know if I would want to run this thing without a timer, but by stopping the burn like we do it does add to the cleaning somewhat, particularly with greener wood. If my radiant floor works like I hope and I only need 1 load of wood per day, Im not sure the timer will work so well because the coals will be dead I am afraid by the time I will need another load.
One other thing for me is I only made one of the primary air sides adjustable from the outside. I never did the work on the other one because of lazyness, and I have a hard time seeing results in my flame.
 
I am not sure if Eric is still around on this site, but he mentioned using fiberglass insulation wads in the nozzel openings
to block the extra air that would otherwise cool your output. I have never tried the theory. But I would give it a shot.
 
He hasn't been around in quite a while. Hopefully everything is going well with him. I don't remember the fiberglass idea, but that sounds like a good idea. I'll give it a try as I couldn't figure out a good way to shut off the air.
 
Yes I remember now that seemed to be one issue I had as well.
Hopefully Eric is OK I have not "read" anything from him in quite some time either, come to think of it I dont remember anything all fall.
 
I gave the idea another try tonight, I blocked off my front nozzle.

How have you been doing now that it has been awhile running this way? Less wood? Cleaner burn? Tell me anything you know.
 
barnartist said:
I gave the idea another try tonight, I blocked off my front nozzle.

How have you been doing now that it has been awhile running this way? Less wood? Cleaner burn? Tell me anything you know.

The wood use has gone down and my burns are much cleaner. The inside of my bottom chambers door would sometimes be a dark shade of white in the middle with the outside edges being black on the refractory before the change, but now the entire door is bright white all the time. Before the change my refractory "U" blocks would never be glowing like I had read on this forum, but now if I open the fan opening up a little, I can get them glowing bright red about half way down the blocks. I also get bright red glowing around the nozzle now and never had that before. I cleaned the tubes again a couple of days ago and this is where I'm seeing the real difference. I used to have to use the scrapper on them, but now I just used a wire brush and had just light ash in the tubes and I really didn't see a change in my stack temps when done. This also tells me that I'm burning allot better. I'm starting to run short on wood, so I've started mixing in some that is not nearly a dry (1/2 load dry wood with wetter on top of the load) and I'm seeing a slight drop in heat output but I'm still burning hot enough to keep things clean but I'm getting a small amount of smoke during some of the burn where with the fully dry wood I would only get steam even though I don't seem to loose my gasification in the bottom chamber.
 
I dont think I have ever seen any thing glowing in mine ever.

I did see a nice blue flame last night. But I must not have nearly the output I need this way because I am waking up this morning to tanks that needs recharged already.
I think I will have to free up the nozzle again unless I want to burn 3 cycles a day. I will have to go check the eko and see if I notice any other changes.

Are you still charging 3 tanks this way? how many burn cycles do you need to top them off and how hot are you getting them?
 
I am charging all the tanks but I'm not charging them all the way presently. I'm running the tops of the tanks up to 190ish but only about a 1/3rd of the way down. With the 4 tanks I don't have any mixing so my tops stay hot and the middle and bottoms stay cool (around 105 degrees). With the timer I've started to use I've been able to keep some coals so restarting the boiler takes about 10 minutes. I'm presently running 2 or 3 loads (well 1/2 loads as I don't fill it up all the way as I try and pile the wood up over then nozzle and not touch the boiler walls with a lot of wood) through the boiler each day even when I'm working depending on the forecast. Its nice now as I don't have to babysit the boiler with stirring the coals so I can just start it, get some sleep and let it run for 3 or 4 hours and have the timer shut it down. I'm spending less time with the boiler as I don't stir the firebox anymore, but I do have to load more frequently every day but its allot better than running out every hour to stir and keep it gasifing. Are your stack temps staying the same temp? I had to play with the air settings some to keep them in the same range as before.
 
Barn,

I did the blocked nozzle thing for a little while but changed it back. Both ways worked for me.

My problem was/is nozzle wash/ bridging. Some of the problem is just the way the wood gets stacked in the fire box. The other problem is too much turbulence from the fan speed.

What I have been doing is lighting a fire fan speed @70-90 I get a nice bed of coals i cover both nozzles well then place my wood in the fire box. I then let this wood get going with the lower chamber door open.

When I feel they are burning good I turn the fan back on close the lower door and pull the bypass door shut.

Then I dial the fan speed back to 50-60

My setting are
running 1 fan only

fan opening 100%

Secondaries 2 turns out

Primaries 1 inch

Draft 0.05

Remember the more moisture the wood has the more air you need.

Rob
 
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