new avalon astoria pics inside (3 weeks later)

quickrch · Jan 10, 2011

OK, I have asked a few questions on this forum and searched for more answers than I can recall. what a great place for information. It is right up there with some of the tractor forums I am on. I bought an Avalon Astoria and it was installed by an independent installer 3 weeks ago with the OAK. We have a pretty tight house build in 2004 so the OAK just seemed to make sense. This is my first pellet stove but I used a wood furnace for 3 years when I lived in upstate NY. That furnace is the reason I didn't get a stove last year. Meanwhile one neighbor has a harman advance and the other a quadrafire.

I wanted to get it running quickly and picked up 3,000 lbs of penningtons @189 a ton without a coupon and 440 lbs of wood fiber.. I have not been too happy with the penningtons. The auger jammed after about 9 days of usage. So, I built a pellet vacuum like is shown in several threads here. Since, the auger has been fine but I still get clumps of ash sticking to the walls. I am heating about 3600 square feet with 9 foot ceilings and a 2 story foyer. When it gets down to around 25 the furnace and heat pump kick on some to help. I wonder if we are using the stove correctly to get the most heat out of it. Part of me thinks I just have a bad batch of pellets. I am in norther VA so it is generally not very cold here.

Yesterday I went to southern states and confirmed what I had read here: The southern states brand is made by Ha at least in Loudoun County VA. I just asked the manager "what plant makes your pellets?" He said..."well they are made by Ha". He pronounced it Hay-mer...I would have pronounced it Hammer so I suppose it knew what he was talking about. Good enough for me, and I picked up another 3,000 lbs (all my trailer will hold) of them at 229 a ton and headed home. While stacking the Southern States brand I had 2 broken bags (1 my fault and 1 theres). I ran the broken bags and immediately the stove had that too hot smell and turned it down. Also, it ran cleaner even though I didn't vacuum the pellets.

I worried that the stove might be getting clogged up so I took off the exaust fan and it only had a thin layer of dust on the fins. Then I cleaned out the chimney (just the horizontal setup) and it had about 1/4" of fine powder in it. No hard build up. Just sucked it out with a shop vac and put the ash in a metal can with a lid.

We are really happy with the stove. I have not really resolved the buzzing, it comes and goes.

With the current cold weather I may go with the Hamers for now then go back to the penningtons when the temps are above 30.

joey70 · Jan 12, 2011

hi and congrats on a great looking stove i will be installing this stove soon myself...a couple of the guys on this forum said that this stove has a chute flapper inside before the auger that Travis has told the dealers to remove..... because of jamming...did they remove it on your stove this might be the problem..don222 has the info might want to check into it......let me know how u make out.......also do you have a surge protector on the stove before you plug into the wall couldnt really tell if you did or not if you dont put one on as you want to protect your investment

imacman · Jan 12, 2011

Actually, I was the member that posted the Travis info on the chute flapper....see post #6 of this thread:

www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/67824/#779437

However, if you have a new stove built in '09 or '10, I doubt the flapper will still be there....but I guess it wouldn't hurt to check.

All that said, the Astoria is a very nice stove. I'd still have mine if I didn't decide to go the multi-fuel route.

FordMastertech · Jan 12, 2011

Switching pellet brands is pretty much what I do depending on temps. I have been burning the Stove Chow, cheap stuff but good, on the days that don't drop below 15 to 20 degrees. In the colder temps I have been lately mixing the Hammers with the Stove Chow and it defiantly puts out a lot more heat and allow the stove to reach the thermostats set point temp. The Hammers by them self really throw out the heat but with them being a smaller sized pellet my stove tends to eat them up faster than a more normal sized pellet.
I like your stove install but have one question. Your stove is real close to the window how do you have it vented to keep the recommended 12 inches clearance to a operating window when using a OAK? Have any outside pictures?

Don2222 · Jan 12, 2011

Hi

Nice stove just like mine. LOL

One thing I found is taking the bags of pellets right from my cold garage and dumping them right into the hopper would sometimes cause a jam. I now keep some bags right near the stove or at least inside at the same temperature and I have not had a problem since.

Yep the fuel gate in the pellet drop chute should be removed, Imacman told me about it too.

Good luck

Wi Thundercat · Jan 12, 2011

Nice looking stove and install !!!

Enjoy the heat !

quickrch · Jan 12, 2011

Thanks for the replies. I do have a flapper between the auger and the fire. I hear it clink sometimes and have lifted it to vacuum up the shoot. I didn't check my serial but the stove was just installed. I ordered the stove from a dealer who shipped it to me and had an independent install it. I'll check the serial and take a picture of the flap to confirm I shoudl remove it before I do. I'll post that tonight.

Oh and the heat is fantastic.

joey70 · Jan 12, 2011

Sorry imacman i new it was either you or don...i cant believe travis would still put that flapper on 09,10 models...quickrch would love to see a picture of the flapper so i would know what it looks like also......

quickrch · Jan 12, 2011

Yep, I know there is a flap there. I'll post it and confirm my serial number and production date. I know when it was shipped to me I waited for it to come in from Travis and I doubt travis is sending out pre 2009 units. But, I'll take pics and confirm the model/serial numbers tonight.

I now clean my pellets because of the auger jam and things have been find for several weeks.

quickrch · Jan 13, 2011

Well this is curious. I just registered my stove at the serial number is about 170 below the number in the recall notice posted by imacman (2303-932646). Makes me wonder why it took the dealer 3 weeks to get it to me. This would mean my stove was 2 years old before it was used. Seems strange to me. On the stove is there a manufacture date or serial? I am looking at the number in the registration packet.

Pictures are below. How do I remove this? From the front or pull out the auger cover and auger and take it from the top?

Don2222 · Jan 13, 2011

Hello

There is a phillips head screw in the front on on top of the chute. Just remove that screw and the fuel gate just drops out. I removed mine and no problems!!

Spartan · Jan 13, 2011

Please don't shoot me....but.....

...isn't that metal flap suppose to act as a flame stop?

It appears to be gravity closed so I'm curious, how far back is the augur from that flap? Or do the pellets drop down a well and it's suppose to open from the weight of the pellets behind it?

It simply my curiosity and nothing more.

BTW.....to the op, really nice looking set-up.

Don2222 · Jan 13, 2011

Spartan said:
Please don't shoot me....but.....

...isn't that metal flap suppose to act as a flame stop?

It appears to be gravity closed so I'm curious, how far back is the augur from that flap? Or do the pellets drop down a well and it's suppose to open from the weight of the pellets behind it?

It simply my curiosity and nothing more.

BTW.....to the op, really nice looking set-up.

The auger brings pellets to the top of the chute. They drop down and push the fuel gate open. There were only a couple rare problems from customers who did not keep their stoves clean and smoke got in the hopper. So Travis designed this fuel gate that goes about half way up the chute. It turns out that this fuel gate caused more problems with pellet jams from good customers that did keep their stoves clean but some dampness got in and combined with the fuel gate cause a pellet jam. So Travis told the installers to take it out!

I cleaned the brick back plate once and put it back in the stove damp. That is a sure way to clog the Auger!! I did find a very long screw driver and was able to clear the damp stuck pellets by sticking it up the chute with the fuel gate removed. So the fuel gate just gets in the way and I removed it. No problems since but make sure there is no dampness!

Spartan · Jan 13, 2011

Don2222 said:
Spartan said:

Please don't shoot me....but.....

...isn't that metal flap suppose to act as a flame stop?

It appears to be gravity closed so I'm curious, how far back is the augur from that flap? Or do the pellets drop down a well and it's suppose to open from the weight of the pellets behind it?

It simply my curiosity and nothing more.

BTW.....to the op, really nice looking set-up.

Click to expand...

The auger brings pellets to the top of the chute. They drop down and push the fuel gate open. There were only a couple rare problems from customers who did not keep their stoves clean and smoke got in the hopper. So Travis designed this fuel gate that goes about half way up the chute. It turns out that this fuel gate caused more problems with pellet jams from good customers that did keep their stoves clean but some dampness got in and combined with the fuel gate cause a pellet jam. So Travis told the installers to take it out!

I cleaned the brick back plate once and put it back in the stove damp. That is a sure way to clog the Auger!! I did find a very long screw driver and was able to clear the damp stuck pellets by sticking it up the chute with the fuel gate removed. So the fuel gate just gets in the way and I removed it. No problems since but make sure there is no dampness!

Curiosity again........is the air to the pot by blower or does the stove have a blower (vacuum) at the back just before the flue? The reason I'm asking is to figure out how smoke got into the hopper.

Where do the jams occur?

If the gate opens with one pellet then it should not jam with a few more. Did rust or a lot of soot get into the swing arms?

Or did a bunch of pellets come out of the augur at the same time and cause a pile up? This is where it's important to know where the jams occurs. If it's in the middle of t he chute, then it's a matter of chance and it would make no difference how anything was cleaned. If it was a consistent problem with one or a few units, then that would be ruled out and a more direct mechanical reason would be the cause. I can also see how soot build up or rust build up can increase the friction of the chute for the falling pellets and cause a higher probability of a pile up. Although we are talking small differences.

The other thing would be if the pellets jam at the gate area. Then what could be happening is that the gate puts just that slight amount of pressure to keep a few pellet back and create a slightly higher probability of jams. A rusted or soot filled gate would add to that probability.

I don't want any manufacturers to start screaming at me, but because of their shape, a bunch of sliding pellets coming down an angled chute have some probability of sliding the wrong way and start to create a jam. Once the jam starts, then it simply pile up and becomes a worse problem. The solution would be shorter pellets or larger chutes or higher angles. Given the limitations of stove designs, then it's a matter of chance that jams happen.

I'm a machinery design engineer so PLEASE pardon my line of questions and thinking. I'm simply trying to understand the mechanics of the problem and doing some thinking aloud. If it help solve the problem great, if not, I'm just trying to help.

Don2222 · Jan 13, 2011

Hello

I can understand your questions because I am an Engineer, However Travis did not release the details of those few cases that cased the hopper smoke problem so we can only guess. Actually you can email those questions to the Travis Service Tech Sean Hanley and see what he has to say. He is careful about what info he reveals but it is definitely worth a try.
Also please ask him when Travis will put the Hi-Lo Auto feature for thermostat control on the control boards. That is what I would like!!

His email address:
"Sean Hanley" <[email protected]>

As far as the air to the burn pot, it is provided by the combustion blower located in the left side of the stove. Just take the left panel off.

Also here are some Astoria photos I took when I cleaned the blowers:

Wood Pellet Stove Yearly Cleaning - Convection Blower
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/60351/

Wood Pellet Stove Yearly Cleaning - Exhaust Blower
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/60251/

Also see Where to get Astoria Parts.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/66914/

joey70 · Jan 14, 2011

Don when you say hi lo what are you exactly talking about sorry for the dumb questions...still learning here....

SmokeyTheBear · Jan 14, 2011

Spartan,

Smoke can get in the hopper because of an air flow being setup inside the hopper that draws exhaust up through the drop chute.

An air moving device can start this.

It doesn't have to be very powerful as the normal exhaust air movement is all ready going up by the drop chute and into the heat exchanger.

This is more likely to happen in a dirty stove than a clean one.

Don2222 · Jan 14, 2011

joey70 said:
Don when you say hi lo what are you exactly talking about sorry for the dumb questions...still learning here....

Hi Joey

It really helps to regulate the room temperature in the cold winter months where you have days you do not want to turn the stove off at all.

The best way to describe this feature is to show instructions to a stove that has it such as the Enviro Empress

http://www.enviro.com/images/manuals-brochures/owners-manuals/C-12137 Instruction Empress-A FS Domestic Owner's Manual.pdf

HIGH/LOW MODE: (Requires a thermostat)
INITIAL START-UP: See manual mode above.
OPERATION: When the thermostat calls for heat (contacts are closed)
the stove settings are adjustable as per Manual Mode. When the
thermostat contacts open, the HEAT LEVEL and Fans will drop down to
the LOW setting until the thermostat contacts close again. *The LOW
heat setting can be adjusted for different fuel qualities (see â€œOperating
Instructions - Control Board Functionsâ€). The stove will come back to
the previous HEAT LEVEL setting when the thermostat contacts close
again.

Example: Keeping the stove on low keeps the room at 70 degrees when the outside is say 30 degrees. But when the outside temp drops below 30, the room will be less that 70 and the Thermostat will call for heat. So the stove will automatically change to a higher heat setting to bring the room back up to 70.

Does this explain hi/lo mode ??

See Red Arrow in Pic below.

imacman · Jan 14, 2011

Spartan said:
Please don't shoot me....but.....

...isn't that metal flap suppose to act as a flame stop?

It appears to be gravity closed so I'm curious, how far back is the augur from that flap? Or do the pellets drop down a well and it's suppose to open from the weight of the pellets behind it?

It simply my curiosity and nothing more......

Yes, the original purpose of the flapper was to act as a flame stop. However, along with the problem of the flapper actually adding to the problem of clogged pellets, they found out that there really wasn't much of a problem with flame going up the tube to begin with.

The end of the auger is approx.3-4 inches above the flapper. The auger brings the pellets to the end, the pellets fall down the chute and the weight of them is supposed to open the flapper.

A simple case of fixing a problem that didn't really exist to begin with.

Spartan · Jan 14, 2011

imacman said:
Spartan said:

Please don't shoot me....but.....

...isn't that metal flap suppose to act as a flame stop?

It appears to be gravity closed so I'm curious, how far back is the augur from that flap? Or do the pellets drop down a well and it's suppose to open from the weight of the pellets behind it?

It simply my curiosity and nothing more......

Click to expand...

Yes, the original purpose of the flapper was to act as a flame stop. However, along with the problem of the flapper actually adding to the problem of clogged pellets, they found out that there really wasn't much of a problem with flame going up the tube to begin with.

The end of the auger is approx.3-4 inches above the flapper. The auger brings the pellets to the end, the pellets fall down the chute and the weight of them is supposed to open the flapper.

A simple case of fixing a problem that didn't really exist to begin with.

Are you sure? If somehow the lid is left open on the hopper (I hope there is a safety interlock), could flames not spread upward and easily cover the 3-4 inches?

Also, the the previous poster, how would smoke get into the hopper unless it's a pressurized firebox and there is an air leak from the hopper door or structure. Maybe a bit of smell, but smoke? The reason I'm curious about it is that I had a conversation with a salesman from another company and they said they had a vacuum interlock on their hopper. If the lid was opened, the stove would stop. I thought that it was a great idea since it would ensure that the hopper was always closed or if a sudden crack developed, the stove would shut down.

You know what, the problem piqued my curiosity but sooner or later, someone is going to tell me to f**k off. Guys, good luck with it, stay safe and to the OP, your set-up looks real good.

checkthisout · Jan 14, 2011

Spartan said:
imacman said:

Spartan said:

Please don't shoot me....but.....

...isn't that metal flap suppose to act as a flame stop?

It appears to be gravity closed so I'm curious, how far back is the augur from that flap? Or do the pellets drop down a well and it's suppose to open from the weight of the pellets behind it?

It simply my curiosity and nothing more......

Click to expand...

Yes, the original purpose of the flapper was to act as a flame stop. However, along with the problem of the flapper actually adding to the problem of clogged pellets, they found out that there really wasn't much of a problem with flame going up the tube to begin with.

The end of the auger is approx.3-4 inches above the flapper. The auger brings the pellets to the end, the pellets fall down the chute and the weight of them is supposed to open the flapper.

A simple case of fixing a problem that didn't really exist to begin with.

Click to expand...

Are you sure? If somehow the lid is left open on the hopper (I hope there is a safety interlock), could flames not spread upward and easily cover the 3-4 inches?

Also, the the previous poster, how would smoke get into the hopper unless it's a pressurized firebox and there is an air leak from the hopper door or structure. Maybe a bit of smell, but smoke? The reason I'm curious about it is that I had a conversation with a salesman from another company and they said they had a vacuum interlock on their hopper. If the lid was opened, the stove would stop. I thought that it was a great idea since it would ensure that the hopper was always closed or if a sudden crack developed, the stove would shut down.

You know what, the problem piqued my curiosity but sooner or later, someone is going to tell me to f**k off. Guys, good luck with it, stay safe and to the OP, your set-up looks real good.

Any fire would first have to go up the pellet chute and then curly q back down the auger tube and into the hopper.

The hopper lid has no switch. Harman's do but the Harman's have no air gap between the fuel and the fire as they are a bottom-fed design.

Pellet stoves pull vacuum on the appliance. Imagine an engineer designing one of these as a "pressurized" device and the extra work that would have to go into sealing them up and such.

Spartan · Jan 14, 2011

Checkthisout said:
Any fire would first have to go up the pellet chute and then curly q back down the auger tube and into the hopper.

The hopper lid has no switch. Harman's do but the Harman's have no air gap between the fuel and the fire as they are a bottom-fed design.

Pellet stoves pull vacuum on the appliance. Imagine an engineer designing one of these as a "pressurized" device and the extra work that would have to go into sealing them up and such.

Reading back, I made a mistake in using the word "pressure". What I wanted to know is if there was a forced vacuum by a blower just before the flue or a normal flue vacuum created by hot gases.

Less vacuum...is not pressure....sheesh, old age is striking back....LOL!

joey70 · Jan 14, 2011

Don do you think travis will ever implement that hi lo feature in there stoves......would be a great feature and there isn't a way to do that on your own huh...

Don2222 · Mar 23, 2011

joey70 said:
Don do you think travis will ever implement that hi lo feature in there stoves......would be a great feature and there isn't a way to do that on your own huh...

Please write to Sean and ask Travis Ind to consider this feature? The more people that do write will help !!!

From: "Sean Hanley" <[email protected]>
To: Don2222
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:13:19 PM
Subject: RE: Updated Travis Ind Digital Pellet stove control board with Hi/Lo feature for Thermostat??

Hi Don,

This is not something we are looking into at this time. That doesnâ€™t mean that it will not be investigated in the future.

Sean Hanley

Travis Industries

Customer Service

www.fireplacex.com

www.lopistoves.com

www.avalonfirestyle.com

From: Don2222
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 3:56 PM
To: Hanley, Sean
Subject: Updated Travis Ind Digital Pellet stove control board with Hi/Lo feature for Thermostat??

Hi Sean

Thank-you for understanding.

Is there any chance that High/Low Mode feature will be added to the Travis Pellet Stoves in the near future?

Since the board is already digital, It may only take some minor changes.

Thanks
Don

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