I had A repair guy at my house the other day to take a look at a creosote issue in my p68, and he saw my feed rate at 2 and a half so he told me that was to low, which is most likely true, I had it that low because my pellets are energex and are cut small. Anyway he told me that Harman sent a memo to all it's dealers changing recommend feed rates from 4 to 5. Well anyway he set me at 5 and started it up it filled the newly in stalled burn pot all the way to the top and then some, with even a few going over the edge. When the fire started it was huge and all most instantly blackened my glass.Seems to me thats to high a feed rate at-least for a start up. you should never be sending unburned pellets over the edge, right? Footnote after receiving a new burnpot, mine had the lower 4 holes, and was on recall, with a much needed burnpot gasket as well as me changing door gasket and esp censor my creosote issue still persist. Can't seem to figure that out yet but I'm far from giving up!
Harmans new recommendation on feed rate?
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i dont think the feed adjuster takes effect until the stove is running. Start-up is preprogrammed for a set # of auger rotations (might have changed since the shift to the ultra-feed system, but I havent heard anything). The start-up feed can be adjusted through the dip switches on the control board, but only venture this if it consistently overfeed on start-up. Are you using outside air for combustion? If its blocked you can get poor combustion. It may sound silly, but just double check to make sure the igniter door thingy is on tight, the combustion plate (behind the ash pan) is seated right and latched, and that the ash pan, front door and hopper seal well. Any of those things can lead to poor combustion.
kinsmanstoves
Minister of Fire
Hmmmmm, I was never told of this memo. I will research the Harman Dealer's site today and see if I missed something. I burn ProPellets at 2.5 to 3 and it works great. I have 100% indoor stored pellets and they burn great in three different brans of stoves I burn.
Eric
Eric
My P43 doesn't seem to make any difference where the feed is set. Could it be because I always run in room temp mode? and it runs fine also.
AndrewChurchill
Minister of Fire
Setting the feed too low can actually cause you to burn more pellets than if it's set to a higher feed rate because if the heat load is high but the feed rate is set too low your stove won't be able to put out enough heat and will burn constantly.
This is the procedure listed in my PB105 user manual to determine the proper feed rate. Once you've determined the proper feed rate for your pellets let the computer make the necessary adjustments.
Set the feed rate to 6 and then fire the stove up. Try to put enough of a load on the stove so it has continually feed pellets. Then watch the burn pot. If unburnt pellets start to fall into the ash pan turn the feed rate down a little bit and the watch the burn pot to see if unburned pellets continue to fall into the ash pan.
Repeat this procedure until the burning pellets stop about 1 inch from the edge of the burn pot.
When you switch to a different brand or batch of pellets you may have to adjust the feed rate setting a little bit one way or the other.
Unburned pellets going into the ash pan are a waste of energy. Conversely, having your feed rate set too low can also cause more pellets being consumed.
Andy
This is the procedure listed in my PB105 user manual to determine the proper feed rate. Once you've determined the proper feed rate for your pellets let the computer make the necessary adjustments.
Set the feed rate to 6 and then fire the stove up. Try to put enough of a load on the stove so it has continually feed pellets. Then watch the burn pot. If unburnt pellets start to fall into the ash pan turn the feed rate down a little bit and the watch the burn pot to see if unburned pellets continue to fall into the ash pan.
Repeat this procedure until the burning pellets stop about 1 inch from the edge of the burn pot.
When you switch to a different brand or batch of pellets you may have to adjust the feed rate setting a little bit one way or the other.
Unburned pellets going into the ash pan are a waste of energy. Conversely, having your feed rate set too low can also cause more pellets being consumed.
Andy
lbcynya
Feeling the Heat
THE ROOSTER
Feeling the Heat
I have burned my stove with the feed rate set anywhere from 3-5, and really never noticed a difference... But isn't the feed rate only used while in "stove temp"???
tjnamtiw
Minister of Fire
AndrewChurchill
Minister of Fire
I did some tests using varying feed rates to heat my DHW during the summer. I found that the higher the feed rate the fewer pellets that were used. When the feed rate was set to 6 I used on average 1/4 bag (or 10 pounds) of pellets to heat my DHW, but when the feed rate was set to 2 I used a 1/2 bag of pellets.
tjnamtiw said:
lbcynya said:
its a slight variation of the feeder mechanism used to eliminate the chain drive system from some of the units and make them direct drive.
The XXV, Accentra FS, and the Advance used to all be chain drive with an offset motor to make the body a bit shallower, now they are all direct drive...less parts...good.
I'm not sure of the dates for the shift, sorta recent-ish, most of the new manuals will have diagrams for both systems in them.
noelp68 said:
I get Harman Tech updates AT LEAST 2X per month & never saw that feed rate memo.
From my experience on the tech side of this industry, I'd say that you're somehow starving
or limiting the intake of combustion air. Just like on a gas unit, you're running TOO rich.
Don't know if your intake air set up is either room air or OAK, but that's where I'd start looking...
I've run my p68 on inside air and oak, now on oak and I will check out again to see if I missed anything the last time I checked.As far as new burnpot overflowing when starting, I called the dealer about that, seems they installed wrong burnpot, still works but is smaller than it should be, all I do now to stop overflow is open door a few times during start up to stop pellets in auger and that does the trick until correct one comes in. As far as what they are telling me about my creosote, they say to scrape it off and run unit and then to continue to scrape as new creosote appears until no new creosote appears.They seem to say, if I understand them, that creosote will reappear, and thats normal, it just takes awhile to run out of system. Does that sound correct? They believe they fixed the creosote by replacing a bad burnpot gasket.
newf lover
Minister of Fire
That doesn't sound right at all. They put the wrong burnpot in???
From your post they are going to put the right one in, I hope that changes things for you because creosote is not normal. They don't sound like a dealer I would have a lot of confidence in. Since they are putting in a new burnpot, my guess is that they will have to put in a new gasket again to adjust for the different size. I don't know much about that, but it seems logical. Maybe someone else can chime in here. Perhaps they are saying that you will eventually burn off the old creosote, but if you are making more creosote, they didn't fix the problem.
From your post they are going to put the right one in, I hope that changes things for you because creosote is not normal. They don't sound like a dealer I would have a lot of confidence in. Since they are putting in a new burnpot, my guess is that they will have to put in a new gasket again to adjust for the different size. I don't know much about that, but it seems logical. Maybe someone else can chime in here. Perhaps they are saying that you will eventually burn off the old creosote, but if you are making more creosote, they didn't fix the problem.yah the wrong burnpot, only realized because at start up pellets would overflow. I thought maybe it was a #5 feed rate that was doing it , but found out on this site that start up pellet feed was predetermined. My new burnpot is smaller, it fits the bolt holes, but is shorter, my flame guild fits side to side in the slots but is longer, maybe it's for a p61 or something. I dont know about the creosote deal either but all the guys there run Harmans for 15-20 years in there own homes and there gold certificate. They said it was unusual to have this problem but they seem highly confident about this. I must admit I have no idea, I'm willing to try anything at this point, just throw ideas at the wall and hope it sticks.
littlesmokey
Minister of Fire
tjnamtiw said:
I'm with you on this one, completely. The rate of feed when lower means less burning means longer to heat means your theory would need the stove to be on a timer to decide it was not working fast enough.
OOOOHHHH, such a head ache, I have a hard time with non-logic
littlesmokey
Minister of Fire
To the question at hand. If you are getting a build of creosote, you have an imbalance of fuel and air. Your pellets are not burning hot enough and the smolder factor (totally non technical), low gas heat an cold stack lead to condensation of combustible gases and solids, aka creosote. Your choices are, more air or less fuel. Forget the dealer recommendation as a fixed value, it is a guideline. An unclean stove contributes to slowing the air, or partially blocking it and reducing the efficiency. The air is meant to go through all those passages, block them the air won't properly circulate. That said, if you have cleaned your stove, you may have thrown something out of adjustment, and closed the airway, or have not fully closed an access panel that is allowing free air infiltration. I would recheck the panels and doors make sure the stove is tight, and then check the intake, an obstruction or partial blockage of the air will cause the build up, simply bumping the damper on my stove affects the air flow, not having your stove, I don't know the configuration, but you will get this from other posters.
When you get the new burn pot, ask the tech to thoroughly clean you stove, because the smaller pot burned real dirty and it was their responsibility for the improper install. :cheese: Then ask that the stove be set to the setting were you had the best burn prior to the problem. That will be your baseline, adjust from there.
Good luck
When you get the new burn pot, ask the tech to thoroughly clean you stove, because the smaller pot burned real dirty and it was their responsibility for the improper install. :cheese: Then ask that the stove be set to the setting were you had the best burn prior to the problem. That will be your baseline, adjust from there.
Good luck
Delta-T said:
I think the main reason for the redesign of the feeder is to correct the burnback issue. In the process they built in a bracket for the stoves that had the ccw chaindrive motor to get rid of those. The only problem with the ultrafeeder is the squealling and binding of the slide plate. We have had a p68 and accentra that have done this.
lbcynya
Feeling the Heat
AndrewChurchill
Minister of Fire
Little Smokey, you need to practice what you preach.......
WE’re really being tough today, aren’t we?? But the suggestion is a good one. Use the fuel calculator as a basis. Take the total cost of the stove and install and amortise it over say five years. Because you are calculating your cost based on a set of 1m Btu, divide your total annual usage by one million and use that factor to figure your totals. Subtract the two and there is your savings.
Yes sir I am trying to be a nicer, kinder, gentler geezer…... but it’s tough.
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Burner of Rare Old Stoves
Protector of Mighty Dragons
Killer of threads
Pellets and wood, I do not discriminate - except the stove they burn within
WE’re really being tough today, aren’t we?? But the suggestion is a good one. Use the fuel calculator as a basis. Take the total cost of the stove and install and amortise it over say five years. Because you are calculating your cost based on a set of 1m Btu, divide your total annual usage by one million and use that factor to figure your totals. Subtract the two and there is your savings.
Yes sir I am trying to be a nicer, kinder, gentler geezer…... but it’s tough.
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Burner of Rare Old Stoves
Protector of Mighty Dragons
Killer of threads
Pellets and wood, I do not discriminate - except the stove they burn within
GVA
Minister of Fire
[quote author="rickwa" date="1295025056"[I think the main reason for the redesign of the feeder is to correct the burnback issue. In the process they built in a bracket for the stoves that had the ccw chaindrive motor to get rid of those. The only problem with the ultrafeeder is the squealling and binding of the slide plate. We have had a p68 and accentra that have done this.[/quote]
The chain drives sucked, period. The motor mount (or the rubber grommets) could never handle the torque generated by the motor trying to cut a pellet stuck in the slide plate. Chains would strech pop and jump and then tear out the gears in the motor. I put a clutch on mine way back to prevent the motor self destruction.
As for the squeal chain drives had that too, I posted mine doing it here about 4 years ago.
Burnback was a whole different issue.
The chain drives sucked, period. The motor mount (or the rubber grommets) could never handle the torque generated by the motor trying to cut a pellet stuck in the slide plate. Chains would strech pop and jump and then tear out the gears in the motor. I put a clutch on mine way back to prevent the motor self destruction.
As for the squeal chain drives had that too, I posted mine doing it here about 4 years ago.
Burnback was a whole different issue.
forya
Member
I am having the same problem with my accentra and Hamer pellets. I now have my feed rate at 2 to keep the burnpot from overflowing. It seems, for me, that the ash builds up at the rim of the burnpot and makes a dam then the hot unburnt pellets pile up behind the dam until they overflow. I still need to pull the ash down every 8 hours or so to keep the pellets from piling up. I just cleaned everything real good today, and did the flue sweep, and combustion motor blades last week. I don't think that it is a cleaning issue. I am thinking of removing the burnpot and pulling out the auger, so i can scrape the auger tube. And I don't know what those 2 holes are at the top of the burnpot are, but when I take it off I'm sure I will see. I just need to get a parts list, or diagram before I do it. I don't want any surprises
THE ROOSTER
Feeling the Heat
forya said:
I am curious, arer you burning in room or stove temp??? I have found this to be my case when burning in stove temp, but when I switch over to room temp I do not have this problem...
forya
Member
I am burning in room temp. It seems to be a little better when I have the feed rate to 1 3/4, but that is way lower than what Harman recomends
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