Gasifier

The econoburn is a good american made unit. I went with the biomass 60 becouse I didn't have the additional $1500 to spend on the econoborn. I'm very happy with the biomass.
I considered the vigas becouse of the lambada controls and the fire chamber is wider at the bottom to reduce bridging ,but I didn't want to be one of the first in our country to get one....
J.T.

Lots of info on this forum covering elementary to the very sophisticated. Your would do yourself a big favor by doing some homework to learn at least the basics.

I suspect if you dive in to this site for a while you'll learn more than you could ever imagine about the boilers out there. EKO, Tarm, Econoburn, etc and so on.

Here is what I would do:

1.) Spend a month reading hearth.com
2.) Google "slantfin heatloss" and get a good estimate what your real heat load is
3.) Decide if you want to spend the time to process 3-10 cord of wood per year while keeping in mind you need to be 1-2 years ahead to burn a gaser properly.
4.) Figure out wood supply. Can you get good hardwood? Will you be paying for it? If so, how much will it cost?
5.) Put together a spreadsheet to figure payback. If you drop $10-15k in a heating system it should pay for itself long before warranty runs out. Include the cost of wood if you have to pay for it.

That's where I would start...

Nice reply Stee----You nailed it!

Hey stee dont foget the vigas. he advertizes on the fourm.

stee6043 said:

I suspect if you dive in to this site for a while you'll learn more than you could ever imagine about the boilers out there. EKO, Tarm, Econoburn, etc and so on.

Here is what I would do:

1.) Spend a month reading hearth.com
2.) Google "slantfin heatloss" and get a good estimate what your real heat load is
3.) Decide if you want to spend the time to process 3-10 cord of wood per year while keeping in mind you need to be 1-2 years ahead to burn a gaser properly.
4.) Figure out wood supply. Can you get good hardwood? Will you be paying for it? If so, how much will it cost?
5.) Put together a spreadsheet to figure payback. If you drop $10-15k in a heating system it should pay for itself long before warranty runs out. Include the cost of wood if you have to pay for it.

That's where I would start...

Click to expand...

If he does all that he should be ready to go just about the time Viessmann rolls into town.......

Since they should pay for themselves before the warrant runs out... how long is an average warranty?

Welcome to the forum - it's the best place you can find for information about boilers, and you've already received some of the best advice you'll get. I'll just add my .02 about the wood side. You didn't say how much experience you have heating with wood, and since you didn't mention a wood stove, I'll assume you are not a long-time wood person. Buying a gassifier is a commitment - it's a big jump from collecting a bit of wood for the family fireplace. Buying wood c/s/d probably wouldn't change your heating bill very much, but would add a very costly piece of hardware that will happily munch on your expensive wood. So, in order to save significant $$, you will need to acquire wood, either from your own land, scrounged, or at the very least, logs at a reasonable price. As the good folks have already mentioned, getting 2 years ahead (i.e. seasoned wood) is a must for a gasser, which means busting your butt at least for a year or so, unless you're that far ahead already ;-) . So, not intending to scare you (or anyone else) away, this thing requires a lot of time and work. Most of us on the forum are all-in on this - processing firewood is a top priority, and we get it done. Personally, I do it willingly and have no second thoughts or regrets. So, if you feel comfortable adding this to your life, then use the keyword search in this forum for a couple of months, and you'll find the answer to just about any question you might have. If you're already an experienced wood burner, then hopefully this long-winded rambling will help some other newbie make the right decision. Good luck with it!

Throwing out a thought just for the what-the-heck of it:

have you considered installing a woodstove somewhere in your house where it could take over some of the load from your gas heat, give you a sense of the commitment and rhythm of life heating with wood entails, and learn some of the ins-and-outs of the acquisition and management of firewood before diving into the deep end of the pool?

If you find a `parlor stove', something easy to operate, with a window that allows for fireview, and locate it somewhere in those 3800sf with the intent of keeping an area warm--maybe a room where the family likes to congregate and where nearby bedrooms could benefit from the warmth, you could enjoy the warmth and ambiance, have it on hand for backup as the gas system is ripped out, the gassifier installed, and the kinks worked out of the new system. It would also be on hand for power failures, and continue to provide ambiance and fireview even when the gassifier is doing its thing. It might also serve as ambassador of wood heat for anyone with whom you share your domicile and break bread and who may not be sold on the wood heat just yet.

Step at a time isn't everyone's thing, but there can be advantages.




Best to you in finding the right answer for you and your family.

Have you considered anthracite? Check NEPA crossroads website. Central Heating with Wood and Coal by Larry Gay, PhD. is a good source as well. Good luck.

Awesome comments so far!

Get realistic about the whole money saving thang . . . As Stee said, get the spreadsheet going!

Get realistic about obtaining solid fuel . . . spend the rest of the winter helping friends 'get wood' on a weekly basis. That'll give you some idea the work/expense involved.

I had some personal interuptions to my 'wood-getting' schedule last week, so I made up for it this week. Two different days this week. And yesterday I came out of the woods at 7PM. Frozen feet. Still better than a day at the office.

No two situations are the same, so I can't recommend an hydronic for you. But in my situation, I'd be saving up for the Viessmann :coolsmile:

Hey jimbo i guess you were not to lost if you found your way out my 7.the wife must be pissed at you for missing supper.

dvd said:

Since they should pay for themselves before the warrant runs out... how long is an average warranty?

Click to expand...

I think most have 20 years or so. But I personally wouldn't invest in wood heat if I couldn't get payback in 5 years +/-.

At the end of the day wood heating is a lot of work...but I love it! I went with the fancy gaser because it was the right choice for me and for my neighborhood. Less smoke, less wood, less mess, more heat with less overall effort. But I really enjoy going out into the woods three or four times a year to collect wood for a day. The beers taste good on those days, especially for a guy with an office job!

I personally run through roughly 3.5 cord per year. So I'm not out every weekend cutting wood. After busting tail my first year to get almost 2 years ahead I now have 3-4 trips per year to drop trees and haul them home. I probably spend another half dozen Saturday afternoons splitting and stacking the wood. Come Fall I spend a day or two moving the wood under my deck for ease of access during the winter. Sadly, I spend more time moving my wood around than anything else! But I enjoy having a reason to go outside. I really think heating with wood is more of a hobby than anything else (at least for me). I'm not doing it because I have to but because I want to. Although going from $300 per month in natural gas down to $30 is a nice benefit of this hobby!

The other part of this for me was the install. Man I love projects! I really, really had fun with the system install on my gaser. I only needed a pro for one part of my system - coring the hole in my basement wall for the flue. I racked up hundreds of posts here at Hearth.com learning the tips and tricks. My install lasted roughly 4 months from the day I brought my boiler home. I enjoyed just about every part of it.

So there....more thoughts for free! ha.

I just got my Vigas 60 recently online and it works great for my application. (Today I'm insulating the tanks.)
I'm heating 4500 SF with my model and I have storage as well. I plan on adding a heat exchanger for my swimming pool in the spring time.
My suggestion (as others have mentioned) is to take your time to figure out your needs, your expenses, what you can and cannot do by yourself
and have a plan. I figure that my costs for the system will be paid back in 3 yrs. time, and that makes me very happy.
I purchased my Vigas from Mark at AHONA (advertises on this forum) and I have nothing but praise for his support and wisdom.

Nice ny edge, there are now 2 of us vigas owners on the fourm. Mark is great. How are you insulating your tanks? I have 1000 gallons and i am having them sprayfoamed on monday.

henfruit said:

Nice ny edge, there are now 2 of us vigas owners on the fourm. Mark is great. How are you insulating your tanks? I have 1000 gallons and i am having them sprayfoamed on monday.

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I have a double wall of 2" rigid insulation (with foil) that makes up 4" in total.
The rigid insulation is around the perimeter and ceiling, and I am spraying loose fiber glass insulation into the cavity.
If you buy 10 bags or more from the Home Depot, they let you use the spray machine for free for up to 24 hrs.

Here's a pic of my tanks.

What did you put on the pipes. Install looks nice. I am going to have 2 inch foil also above below and on the back wall that is an inside wall. ceiling is below a heated space. the rest is inside the garage under the house. i am then going to enclose the boiler from the rest of the garage.

NYEDGE said:

henfruit said:

Nice ny edge, there are now 2 of us vigas owners on the fourm. Mark is great. How are you insulating your tanks? I have 1000 gallons and i am having them sprayfoamed on monday.

Click to expand...

I have a double wall of 2" rigid insulation (with foil) that makes up 4" in total.
The rigid insulation is around the perimeter and ceiling, and I am spraying loose fiber glass insulation into the cavity.
If you buy 10 bags or more from the Home Depot, they let you use the spray machine for free for up to 24 hrs.

Here's a pic of my tanks.

Click to expand...

That's a really impressive install. One question and one suggestion-

It looks as if you have two sets of piping to the lower parts of the tanks, and only one on the top- how is this all connected to your boiler and your heat loads?

Suggestion: rather than having your auto air bleeds on top of the tanks inside the insulated box, perhaps run some 1/2 inch pex out through the side of the insulated area, and have the air bleeds in open area outside the enclosure. That way if there are ever issues, especially leaking, with the air removers, you won't have to dig back in, or worse yet, end up with a giant mass of sodden wet insulation (a lot of slow leakage might go on before it'd become apparent on the outside).

Very nice looking setup, NY.

Can you share a plumbing sketch? Do you have any plans on how to measure and/or potentially balance the flow into each of the three tanks? My concern would be that water always chooses the easiest path to travel. This is the tricky part with parallel tank installs. You need to make sure you don't have a "short circuit" through one tank and never get good flow through the other two. Perhaps you already have all this addressed. Just wanted to ask!

Very nice set-up indeed. I agree with pybry on the air vents. Below are two pictures of my setup....One showing the top of my tanks with the 1/2" pex running to picture two showing a small manifold with the air vent on top. No leaks at the tanks and everything is fully insulated. Just make sure that the lines run up hill all the way to where the manifold is located so that any air travels up and doesn't get caught in a low spot in the lines.

just long nipples might fix the auto vent issue. I would also like to see a schematic, I am more curious about the piping and less concerned about pressure drop. FYI got tanks just like yours Mine are 180 gallons each and have u-tube bundles in each one. Use two of them for hydraulic separators, Two for pre heat DHW and one for expansion. Got them at an auction for 80.00 bucks each. NOS