hello guys and gals,.....first post here but a long time creeper..lol. my name is nate and I look forward to being part of this community.....here we go,.I have a 2500 square ft home with a huge basement(70 ft long) I have a oil fired furnace that sucks the life outta me. hence why im here. I will be installing a chimney in april, (masonry) but can not decide what i want for a stove, or if i want a stove, I have been looking into these gasification boilers and they seem great( but scary) also,.... bottom line, i need to lower heat costs in the winter. I dont have a million dollars, so im wondering if gasification is out, it seems like after instalation is done im looking at probably 8,000.00.... to be honest im looking at seton woodstoves but dont really care what I get just as long as she(woodstove) keeps me warm at night....... also,..... with a woodstove,.... does my house always have to be at 800 degrees,....just wondering... lol thanks for any help !
new here,.... and would love some help!!!
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Welcome and you have come to the right place. You have some time so do a lot of searching on the site in all the forums so you can understand all the different options. Please tell us a little bit more about your house, current heating system, layout, basement access, etc. This will help the experts here give you their opinions. I have an insert and like it, but if I could have done a regular stove or wood furnace I probably would have done that instead. So - tell us about yourself - and we always ask for pictures of your setup/house. Also - most important thing - start collecting your wood now (splitting it now also). Most important thing is dry wood (seasoned 1 year+) Best of luck.
soupy1957
Minister of Fire
Nate:
First off, glad you came out of the lurkers closet and spoke up. Welcome! Secondly, you will find (if you haven't perceived this already), that there are advocates for wood burning stoves that are "stand alone" and Fireplace Insert lovers, and Pellet Stove lovers in here. I fall within the ranks of those who love Stand Alone Wood Stoves (for the record).
Now in my second season of "official" burning for heat, I too sought after the wood stove as a source of heat for my home. Obviously I am going to recommend a "Stand Alone" wood stove, but in the end, visiting a local store that sells all varieties of alternate heat tools, will be your best bet for weighing the pros and cons for your particular situation (even if it means going a few miles out of your way, to get a close up, hands on view of them). Since you are a Connecticut resident as am I, I strongly recommend Dean's Stove & Spa in Southington, even though that's a bit of a journey for you.
If you like, put the wife (if relevant) in the car, and take a drive up to Wallingford, (I'll send you a private PM with my phone number) and come talk with us around our wood stove. Giving you an "up close and personal" view of a stove in action, will help you get a feel for how much "heat" you can achieve, and how to regulate the heat so that you are not at "800ºF" as you stated.
I see from your post that you are intending a masonry chimney, and I'm wondering if I might be able to convince you to avoid that extreme cost addition, and go with Class 6 Stove Pipe. Another point to ponder.
It's a discussion you need to have with someone (I'm willing) about the day to day care of a wood stove for heat, and a realistic look at the variables involved; everything from where you are going to store your wood .......to.......how much "work" are you willing to put into this tool.
Best Wishes,
-Soupy1957
First off, glad you came out of the lurkers closet and spoke up. Welcome! Secondly, you will find (if you haven't perceived this already), that there are advocates for wood burning stoves that are "stand alone" and Fireplace Insert lovers, and Pellet Stove lovers in here. I fall within the ranks of those who love Stand Alone Wood Stoves (for the record).
Now in my second season of "official" burning for heat, I too sought after the wood stove as a source of heat for my home. Obviously I am going to recommend a "Stand Alone" wood stove, but in the end, visiting a local store that sells all varieties of alternate heat tools, will be your best bet for weighing the pros and cons for your particular situation (even if it means going a few miles out of your way, to get a close up, hands on view of them). Since you are a Connecticut resident as am I, I strongly recommend Dean's Stove & Spa in Southington, even though that's a bit of a journey for you.
If you like, put the wife (if relevant) in the car, and take a drive up to Wallingford, (I'll send you a private PM with my phone number) and come talk with us around our wood stove. Giving you an "up close and personal" view of a stove in action, will help you get a feel for how much "heat" you can achieve, and how to regulate the heat so that you are not at "800ºF" as you stated.
I see from your post that you are intending a masonry chimney, and I'm wondering if I might be able to convince you to avoid that extreme cost addition, and go with Class 6 Stove Pipe. Another point to ponder.
It's a discussion you need to have with someone (I'm willing) about the day to day care of a wood stove for heat, and a realistic look at the variables involved; everything from where you are going to store your wood .......to.......how much "work" are you willing to put into this tool.
Best Wishes,
-Soupy1957
thanks guys.... well to start my house has single pain windows, base board heat,... a walk in basement,... and a 175000 btu oil furnace that likes my oil!... I have been cutting wood for years,.... i have a side excavation gig that allows me axcess to wood, plus my land and other means .I have a wife and a 2 year old son, and another on the way......I had priced out a masonry chimney and figured i could get it done for 600 bucks, i thought that the stove pipe was very expensive??
Lighting Up
Feeling the Heat
Soupy, you are truly a nice guy...can't added anything here. Crackshot you have a great offer
Good Luck
md
Good Luck
md
krex1010
Minister of Fire
Hey Nate welcome to the forums, this site is a great resource. As soupy mentioned, you don't need to build a masonry fireplace to heat with wood, that will cost a small fortune I would think. I don't know anything about your house and it's layout, you mentioned the basement, are you counting that in the 2500sq ft? Are you planning on installing the stove in your basement? Is your home a ranch or does it have multiple floors?
krex1010
Minister of Fire
$600 for a new masonry fireplace? Are you doing that yourself? Also I know it sucks to think about, but I would address those windows and try tightening up your house and insulating. Woodstoves are space heaters and it really is important to be able to keep the heat you are making. If your house is poorly insulated and drafty then you are going to find yourself running that stove hard, eating tons of wood and even with that as soon as you get later in a burn cycle the areas in your home that are farmfrom the stove will lose heat really fast and end up being cold most of the time.
soupy1957
Minister of Fire
It has been my experience that you will find most Stand Alone stoves to run you at least $1500 and up (and more realistically, around $2K +) and the accessories and installation to take you to about $4 - 5K, when it's all said and done.
There are "Do It Yourself" folks in here, and it sounds like you are tempted to be another. I won't say "don't" because it IS do-able of course; but I also like the notion of having a stove (as we did) "Professionally" installed, so as to guarantee that we are meeting code, and that it is truly "done right" in the end.
Working with the Town Inspectors was a breeze, since the work was done right the first time, and our Insurance company waived the need for a questionnaire about the install, once they knew it was done by a "Professional" group.
I'm going to assume here, that your price for the masonry chimney is for materials only and not outside labor. That's a very low price for what you are talking about. Our total package price for our stand alone was $5K when it was all said and done, lock, stock and barrel.
Put the wife and the kids in the car (our daughters have children now, so we have a lot of experience with little ones around the house), tomorrow, and come by for a visit. It'll be a nice "day out" after the storm, and the wife and I can give you an eye and ear full about the life of wood burning. (lol).
-Soupy1957
There are "Do It Yourself" folks in here, and it sounds like you are tempted to be another. I won't say "don't" because it IS do-able of course; but I also like the notion of having a stove (as we did) "Professionally" installed, so as to guarantee that we are meeting code, and that it is truly "done right" in the end.
Working with the Town Inspectors was a breeze, since the work was done right the first time, and our Insurance company waived the need for a questionnaire about the install, once they knew it was done by a "Professional" group.
I'm going to assume here, that your price for the masonry chimney is for materials only and not outside labor. That's a very low price for what you are talking about. Our total package price for our stand alone was $5K when it was all said and done, lock, stock and barrel.
Put the wife and the kids in the car (our daughters have children now, so we have a lot of experience with little ones around the house), tomorrow, and come by for a visit. It'll be a nice "day out" after the storm, and the wife and I can give you an eye and ear full about the life of wood burning. (lol).
-Soupy1957
its a ranch,...., the block chimney will cost me 650 bucks and yes, thats doing it myself,.......... and yes the stove will be going in the basement as centrally located as possible, if i go with a woodstove it will definatly be a stand alone,....to be honest with ya, i dont know if the basement is included with that square footage, thats how it is listed on my taxes...... if its not, i never have heard of a woodstove that could do over 3000 square ft!lol .... and multiple stoves are out of the question
krex1010
Minister of Fire
Is the basement finished and well insulated? If not then the foundation is going to suck up most of that heat. Typically with basement installs people generally have a 10-15 degree difference in temps between the basement and the upstairs. So if you want your upstairs to be 68-70 degrees you will have to keep the basement around 80+ degrees. You may have to address your windows and overall insulation in the house if you want a basement installed woodstove to be able to heat the whole house.
soupy1957
Minister of Fire
I'm not an advocate for putting a wood stove in a basement (although I know there are some in here who have done so, and feel that it works well for them). The typical installation recommendations are, to put the wood stove on a floor that gets the most activity, and that is usually the main floor, where the living room and kitchen are.
Obviously, that means that the basement is going to be cooler, but with fans, and forced hot air system blowers, (if applicable) and even Central Air blowers, and space heaters, you can keep the downstairs (basement) at least at 65ºF without having to make your "upstairs" living area a sauna.
-Soupy1957
Obviously, that means that the basement is going to be cooler, but with fans, and forced hot air system blowers, (if applicable) and even Central Air blowers, and space heaters, you can keep the downstairs (basement) at least at 65ºF without having to make your "upstairs" living area a sauna.
-Soupy1957
Crachshot, welcome aboard. I'll be honest and say that although I have some posts under my belt, I really consider myself to still be a lurker. I do not have the time and understanding (a well as patience) that others do here. Thank goodness for different personalities if you know what I mean. Personally I think I have s much fun around here as the knowledge I gain just floating forums.
I believe I completely read your first 2 posts and am getting the feeling you're thinking of putting this in your basement, but don't want to assume.... Getting this out 'up front' will make a big difference in the suggestions you get from the 'Pro's' here, and everyone will not have to redirect their thinking when you spill the beans later. Lets get that out now in the early parts of the discussion if we may.
Plus, as a general question wheteher you put you stove upstairs or down.... is your basement finished/ unfinished, insulated/ bare block? (Just wondering)
Personal note:
My home is a small rectangular rancher with a walk out basement, about 1400 sq. My wood stove in in my basement (open ceilings), on the opposite corner as the bedrooms. The bedrooms remain pretty cool. I have (real) cinder-block walls, uninsulated, but 3 of the 4 rooms down there I have re-pointed those block walls, treated with a masonry bonder and then dry-locked. I do not have water issues (explaining use of drylock) but that old cinder-block was drafty and gave off a lot of dust. It is no where near where I am going, but that treatment has cut the drafting quite a bit and it is getting better every day I have time to work on it.
EDIT: There were only 4 posts when I started typing this. WOW everyone is here early this morning!
I believe I completely read your first 2 posts and am getting the feeling you're thinking of putting this in your basement, but don't want to assume.... Getting this out 'up front' will make a big difference in the suggestions you get from the 'Pro's' here, and everyone will not have to redirect their thinking when you spill the beans later. Lets get that out now in the early parts of the discussion if we may.
Plus, as a general question wheteher you put you stove upstairs or down.... is your basement finished/ unfinished, insulated/ bare block? (Just wondering)
Personal note:
My home is a small rectangular rancher with a walk out basement, about 1400 sq. My wood stove in in my basement (open ceilings), on the opposite corner as the bedrooms. The bedrooms remain pretty cool. I have (real) cinder-block walls, uninsulated, but 3 of the 4 rooms down there I have re-pointed those block walls, treated with a masonry bonder and then dry-locked. I do not have water issues (explaining use of drylock) but that old cinder-block was drafty and gave off a lot of dust. It is no where near where I am going, but that treatment has cut the drafting quite a bit and it is getting better every day I have time to work on it.
EDIT: There were only 4 posts when I started typing this. WOW everyone is here early this morning!
soupy1957
Minister of Fire
Back when we were at the beginning stages of our wood stove project, I made videos to chronicle the progress and some of the thought processes we were going thru. Here's part 1 of that series............
Thru experience, (since this was a while ago), we have learned a lot more since then.
-Soupy1957
Thru experience, (since this was a while ago), we have learned a lot more since then.
-Soupy1957
soupy1957 said:
Soupy, I just watched all 7 of your videos and think you did really well with that, I enjoyed it. I realized at the end that your 'public awareness documentary' reminded me of a few of my favorite music albums.... all those I am referring to have a nice quiet track at the end that drift me off to sleep.
Adios Pantalones
Minister of Fire
I've been looking at gasifying boilers for quite a while- big bucks! I should have pulled the trigger last year when the 30% rebate was in effect.
Anyway- put the stove in your living area, not the basement, if at all possible. It will do so much better at heating the house that way.
Anyway- put the stove in your living area, not the basement, if at all possible. It will do so much better at heating the house that way.
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
Some things to think about:
Whatever wood burning appliance you decide on, will call for a certain flue size. You should keep this in mind if you are going to build your own chimney out of block, brick, etc.
While Class A stove pipe is not cheap, it is easily replaced if need be, easier to move should you decide to, round and more geared towards a wood burning appliance as far as design, cross section etc.
If your house in on the larger side, 2,000 - 2,500 sf +, and depending on how open the floor plan is. A single stand alone, insert etc may not keep the entire or portions of the house warm enough for you, when it is teens, single digits, sub zero, especially with high winds, etc. This is where a wood furnace, gasifier etc really shines. As you have several options of how to transmit the heat, and plenty of heat to do it.
As far as self install, that is up to each individual.
I do not agree that having a "professional" necessarily guarantees a safe, code compliant install is done.
IMO not all, but most self installers, go the extra mile through research, design and safety factors to assure themselves, that they will be comfortable to sleep at night without laying there worrying that the house may burn down.
I know that is the case here, and I know the dealer I bought my insert from did not know jack shat about installs. Sure he would do it, but did not have much info and answers.
I also know, that I took more time, and made sure everything was overkill, and if I did in fact have a code man come in, I have no hesitation it would both pass with flying colors, but I think it would also impress the code officer.
That is how sure I am of my own personal research & install.
Now with that said, this is not to say that some installers don't do a very good job, and some self installers don't hack the crap out of the install. Yes it happens both ways, in both cases.
I have seen enough complaints on here about installers short cutting, and doing sub par installs. Refusing to put in block off plates, stuffing fiberglass insulation as a block off, not meeting clearance to combustibles, and just plain ol hacking the house up and stuffing the install in. Same happens with self installs, but appears much less. I'm talking on the site. Out in the real world, I have seen pipes ending 1' away from a side wall, or a roof. Not having tall enough clearances. Galvanized piping used, etc, etc, etc. See it every day driving to town.
Main point is, you have the time. Research, research, research... too much of that cannot hurt. Rushing in, will almost guarantee you headaches and grief, and added expense & time.
Good luck in whichever system you choose. Here is the place to ask questions & find answers. Remember though, some answers, take with a grain of sale. Majority rules is a good thing sometimes.
Whatever wood burning appliance you decide on, will call for a certain flue size. You should keep this in mind if you are going to build your own chimney out of block, brick, etc.
While Class A stove pipe is not cheap, it is easily replaced if need be, easier to move should you decide to, round and more geared towards a wood burning appliance as far as design, cross section etc.
If your house in on the larger side, 2,000 - 2,500 sf +, and depending on how open the floor plan is. A single stand alone, insert etc may not keep the entire or portions of the house warm enough for you, when it is teens, single digits, sub zero, especially with high winds, etc. This is where a wood furnace, gasifier etc really shines. As you have several options of how to transmit the heat, and plenty of heat to do it.
As far as self install, that is up to each individual.
I do not agree that having a "professional" necessarily guarantees a safe, code compliant install is done.
IMO not all, but most self installers, go the extra mile through research, design and safety factors to assure themselves, that they will be comfortable to sleep at night without laying there worrying that the house may burn down.
I know that is the case here, and I know the dealer I bought my insert from did not know jack shat about installs. Sure he would do it, but did not have much info and answers.
I also know, that I took more time, and made sure everything was overkill, and if I did in fact have a code man come in, I have no hesitation it would both pass with flying colors, but I think it would also impress the code officer.
That is how sure I am of my own personal research & install.
Now with that said, this is not to say that some installers don't do a very good job, and some self installers don't hack the crap out of the install. Yes it happens both ways, in both cases.
I have seen enough complaints on here about installers short cutting, and doing sub par installs. Refusing to put in block off plates, stuffing fiberglass insulation as a block off, not meeting clearance to combustibles, and just plain ol hacking the house up and stuffing the install in. Same happens with self installs, but appears much less. I'm talking on the site. Out in the real world, I have seen pipes ending 1' away from a side wall, or a roof. Not having tall enough clearances. Galvanized piping used, etc, etc, etc. See it every day driving to town.
Main point is, you have the time. Research, research, research... too much of that cannot hurt. Rushing in, will almost guarantee you headaches and grief, and added expense & time.
Good luck in whichever system you choose. Here is the place to ask questions & find answers. Remember though, some answers, take with a grain of sale. Majority rules is a good thing sometimes.
my living space is 2589 square ft, this does not include my basement.....
!! so total would be just under 5000 square ft,...... what the hell,.... there is no woodstove that would heat all that from the basement,.... or is there,... even with heat registers cut into the floor????.... I was going to build the chimney with a 8 inch flu,.... install a woodstove and run it,..... then down the road (a year or 2) install a wood boiler.... i realize that what kind of boiler I use will need a different flu size, but the ones i was looking at tak a 8 inch, so id be all set there..... just would have to replace the thimble....... but the question is I guess , will a woodstove downstairs be efficiant enough for use. i really dont like the fact of putting one upstairs.... eg,the wood mess,.... bringing the wood in through the main doorway,downstairs i could easily put 2 chord of wood out of the way...... and plus all my upstairs is carpeted, wood would make a mess......just some thoughts
!! so total would be just under 5000 square ft,...... what the hell,.... there is no woodstove that would heat all that from the basement,.... or is there,... even with heat registers cut into the floor????.... I was going to build the chimney with a 8 inch flu,.... install a woodstove and run it,..... then down the road (a year or 2) install a wood boiler.... i realize that what kind of boiler I use will need a different flu size, but the ones i was looking at tak a 8 inch, so id be all set there..... just would have to replace the thimble....... but the question is I guess , will a woodstove downstairs be efficiant enough for use. i really dont like the fact of putting one upstairs.... eg,the wood mess,.... bringing the wood in through the main doorway,downstairs i could easily put 2 chord of wood out of the way...... and plus all my upstairs is carpeted, wood would make a mess......just some thoughtsupdate!.... never thought of doin the measurements myself,.... I need to have a talk with my assesor,...... my upstairs is actually 2164 sq ft,.... not2589! ....... so add basement to that , it is 4328,........ my question to you now is,.... with a stove that has an output rating for a 3000 sq ft home,.... be sufficiant to lower my heat costs sufficiantly?????
! ....... so add basement to that , it is 4328,........ my question to you now is,.... with a stove that has an output rating for a 3000 sq ft home,.... be sufficiant to lower my heat costs sufficiantly?????
Given all the factors listed - basement instead of 1st floor, single-pane windows, ranch house, I would say no. There are too many things working against it, especially if the basement has uninsulated walls. Maybe consider a wood furnace instead?
ok,... now,.... my next question would be,... are the regular hydronic wood boilers,not gasifiers,.... that much of a pain,... i am hearing that they are a creasote nightmare, and very un efficent.......that is why i was leaning towards a gasifier, but my budget is like 7 grand....
That question would be best directed to the folks in the Boiler Room forum here. You mentioned a furnace earlier. That's why I suggested going for a wood furnace, if the ductwork is already in place.
remkel
Minister of Fire
Crackshot-
First off, welcome. Always good to see some new blood around here! As you can see, no matter what your question you will be certain to get lots of advice and some good discussion on pros/cons on many solutions. It is up to you to figure out which pro/con list best suits your needs.
As for your situation, I think I tend to agree with BeGreen here. My house is a 2350 square foot colonial (not including unfinished basement space) that was built in 2005, well insulated and sometimes I think too airtight save for the 350 sq. ft above the garage. I am able to pretty much heat 2000 square feet with the stove, that is with the first floor at 68-70, second floor at 64-65 consistently. I have to leave one zone on my oil boiler going to provide heat above the garage (although I am going to further address that issue and hopefully eliminate having to use that zone also).
As stated earlier, you have a lot of things working against you here. Now, am I saying to not install- heck no. Any help to reduce that black money sucking fluid being used is ok with me.
Good luck with your endeavor and I wish you the best. See you around the hearth.
p.s. I envy your access to wood- I have to scrounge for every cord every year!
First off, welcome. Always good to see some new blood around here! As you can see, no matter what your question you will be certain to get lots of advice and some good discussion on pros/cons on many solutions. It is up to you to figure out which pro/con list best suits your needs.
As for your situation, I think I tend to agree with BeGreen here. My house is a 2350 square foot colonial (not including unfinished basement space) that was built in 2005, well insulated and sometimes I think too airtight save for the 350 sq. ft above the garage. I am able to pretty much heat 2000 square feet with the stove, that is with the first floor at 68-70, second floor at 64-65 consistently. I have to leave one zone on my oil boiler going to provide heat above the garage (although I am going to further address that issue and hopefully eliminate having to use that zone also).
As stated earlier, you have a lot of things working against you here. Now, am I saying to not install- heck no. Any help to reduce that black money sucking fluid being used is ok with me.
Good luck with your endeavor and I wish you the best. See you around the hearth.
p.s. I envy your access to wood- I have to scrounge for every cord every year!
ok...... sorry i hope im not driving you guys nuts.... i am going nuts however racking my brain,...... check out this senario........ one thing i left out is that i have an apartment which is included in the measurements........ they have there own thermostat and zone,..... if i put up an insulated wall in the basement, it will bring my side of the house to a total of 3312 square ft, thats with the basement.............. is this heatable with a large woodstove installed downstairs, and vents cut into the floor??????
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