all of you pc-45 owners

Wi Thundercat said:

rona said:

I guess you can always tell them it hasn't worked right from the beginning and they can come and get it back. It sounds like you have tried everything.
A decent dealer would bring it back to his shop and either spend some time fixing it or simply exchange it.
Harman is a good stove but I have seen situations where the dealer is lacking in customer service or experience and basically fails to do his job. If the second dealer couldn't make it work then I would take the steps needed to ensure the origional dealer took it back and you got your money back.

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X2 :exclaim:

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+1

That is one of the reasons I wanted Harman in the loop.

I don't know what PA has in the way of lemon laws and I'm not certain that the stove is actually at fault here but it is another possible means of holding someones feet to the fire.

Post pics of the exhaust pipe from the back of the stove to the outdoor.

Either you have a lemon or a bad install.

rufusmom said:

It just keeps getting better.The dealer is going to clean the exhaust.(they are not chimney sweeps) install a lesser model p43 and not give me any money back to make up the difference in cost.Won't give me back a penny. Sorry I ever had these guys install this thing to begin with and Harmon won't give me a new dealer,even though these guys are morons.They also refuse to change any of the venting even though their manual says over 15' must be 4".

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From a number of incidents reported on here the very last people I'd want to clean a pellet stove vent is a chimney sweep.

A while back someone posted about poor customers.
I am going to suggest a list about crooked dealers who take advantage of customers screwing them over with outrageous prices and misleading used 5 year stoves as either new or a demo barely used.
These dealers names should be shown so potential customers can avoid them.
There is plenty of good dealers out there and they should be patronized as they will be bragged about by their clients.

Don't let them install a p35, it is a totally different stove, it is not multi-fuel. If they won't replace it with the pc45, get the better business bureau involved. Maybe you wanna let the dealer know that if he doesn't replace with the same stove that you will contact the BBB, that will get them thinking, worked for me every time.

I feel your pain ,I too am having frustrating issues with my stove. I've got a p68 bought in fall of 07 that has been producing creosote most of this year, I don't much but I have learned a few things along the way. First I don't know if your stove was bought new or used? If new your under warranty from 08, and can and should change your dealer! you said that you had the tech there when your stove started to squeak and the tech seemed to not know what was causing this to happen, well if this squeak is the same one that alot of Harmans have, from the auger he should have known what was causing that, and taken out all your pellets and vacuumed out the slide plate and maybe for good measure sprinkled some powdered graphite around the edges.With my issue I too had a incompetent dealer working on my stove, so I went to the Harmen web site to find a new one, and while checking realized that while my dealer was listed it was the only one with-out a platinum or gold or silver or anything certificate for sales or service.I wonder if yours is similar.Like mine your stove can and should be reparable, there is only a handful of things that can cause this, you just have to find the right tech, good-luck!

When you are going up 25 feet you must go with 4" pipe. Who are these guys? you should be on the phone with a lawyer and the PA ag"s office. This is not directly Harmans fault, they expect there dealers to do the right thing and in this case they just haven't. If you listen to smokey you can't use 3" when going up that high I think thats common knowledge in the pellet industry. You need a new dealer to take a look at your whole set-up, you might just be surprised how easy a fix it is. Also, I still don't understand how old this unit is?

rona said:

A while back someone posted about poor customers.
I am going to suggest a list about crooked dealers who take advantage of customers screwing them over with outrageous prices and misleading used 5 year stoves as either new or a demo barely used.
These dealers names should be shown so potential customers can avoid them.
There is plenty of good dealers out there and they should be patronized as they will be bragged about by their clients.

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I have a definite vested interest here in that I am a dealer, but felt it a good time to put in my few cents, for what its worth. In this situation, whatever the problem is, it needs to be rectified......maybe its the piping (probable, but need to see pics of that), the noisy nature bothers me, it could be something in the feed mechanism, or even a fan rubbing where it shouldnt be.......noises are fairly easy.....find whats making the noise...anyhow, I digress....

The problem with posting the names of "bad" dealers is that it isnt always the dealer.....sometimes folks just fail to do due diligence in cleaning their unit out of ignorance, laziness, etc. Then, of course, its the dealers' fault, and, you'd see the dealers name listed as a bad dealer, when, if fact, its a bad user. I am not saying here that there are not any bad dealers out there, there certainly are! People have the tendency, both dealers AND stove users, to minimize accountablility, and therefore, blame someone else for their own inadequacies. I dont think there are any dealers who dont have their detractors.....I guess I am not in favor of making a list of bad dealers OR bad users..........eh, my 2 cents....

rufusmom said:

just so everyone remembers....spent 2.5 hrs cleaning stove.Vac everthing down.dump pot scrape...clean exhaust where eps located,took off back panels vac all parts.Light and 5 minutes can't see the firebrick color? pure black? I would like at least a day between cleanings.The noise isn't slight or even loud ....RRRRRRRrusted electric can opener.My lack of cleaning? 2 hrs a week?really?

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wasnt inferring you dont clean the unit, rufusmom! I put the quote in the above post to show what I was speaking of....someones suggestion of a "bad dealer" list......

as for that rusty can opener noise....well, certainly NOT normal......have you narrowed it down to whats making the noise? If its that loud, you should be able to tell which part is doing it....maybe thats the issue with the unit? Sometimes its hard to diagnose or fix a unit through the internet, but if we knew which part it might be, maybe we could determine if that noisy part might be the problem, or at least part of it.......

though not your fault, there is WAY too much pipe here for a 3" vent........not even close to following the manufacturers' reccomendations....maybe over 30' EVL? Thats about twice whats reccomended (should be 4" pipe), and could almost certainly be contributing to your black soot issue.......as for the noise, depends on the motor making the noise.

Can't you just disconnect all outside vertical pipe and go right out with a cap, I've seen a lot of set ups that way. Then you can determine if it is all the 3"

noelp68 said:

Can't you just disconnect all outside vertical pipe and go right out with a cap, I've seen a lot of set ups that way. Then you can determine if it is all the 3"

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IIRC there are clearance issues just coming straight out.

noelp68 said:

Can't you just disconnect all outside vertical pipe and go right out with a cap, I've seen a lot of set ups that way. Then you can determine if it is all the 3"

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they can, but they have to satisfy the 18" clearance from operable windows and doors...........can test it that way, but certainly shouldnt be run for any long amount of time in that configuration.

rufusmom said:

sorry...more than a little miserable at this point.
I can't find the problem or the noise maker.Tech was in my home yet again for over two hours. replaced the board and the thermocouple...think its maybe even a little worse now.havent used the heater in a week. kinda afraid. never saw anything turn black like this in five minutes....i'm serious. I timed it....back to gas until they install the cheaper model...

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i fell your pain....and replacing those parts wont solve the annoying noise either, will it? The cheaper model wont be any better with that piping, is my guess, but should be quieter..... ;-)

Is it possible that everything is tied in together? That the loud motor sound is due to the 30 evl. New pipe is going to cost a bunch I would at-least test by eliminating all that pipe and go strait out the back, a new unit won't preform any better if the vertical pipe isn't replaced.

If the dealer doesn't fix the EVL. I highly doubt the P43 is going to burn any better. Just IMHO anyway!

well, I think its over 30' EVL, but its certainly a flagrant violation of the reccommended install in the manual....Harman is likely telling the dealer this......over two times the reccomended EVL isnt even in the ballpark......have they tried to run the shorter version just to see what happens?

doesn't the dealer realize this evl issue? It seems like they have been out there quite a lot and they don't see all this 3" pipe? To me it doesn't make the dealer look good, they're going to switch out the unit and replace it, they can't see that that won't solve anything? I would get a new dealer on the job won't Harmen let you do that. These guys have completely failed I wouldn't let them fix anything else, there incapable of solving this, even when the solution is right out side, at this point there a waste of time!

noelp68 said:

doesn't the dealer realize this evl issue? It seems like they have been out there quite a lot and they don't see all this 3" pipe? To me it doesn't make the dealer look good, they're going to switch out the unit and replace it, they can't see that that won't solve anything? I would get a new dealer on the job won't Harmen let you do that. These guys have completely failed I wouldn't let them fix anything else, there incapable of solving this, even when the solution is right out side, at this point there a waste of time!

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the problem is, that another dealer didnt sell it. Warrantee work is a money-losing proposition for any dealer. Harman concedes this, and basically says that there should be enough money built into the original sale to cover whatever few issues they might have. We have serviced other units sold by other folks, but will generally collect some additional travel fee, diagnosis fee, etc, to do the work. I would definitely reccommend trying something different with the venting. I dont think it will fix the noise, but might cause a better burn....Im a dealer and even I have no faith in your dealer here........