Warped the top of my Hampton Insert - did I break it?

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J

jflenk01

New Member
Jan 13, 2011
10
CT
I've had the insert for about 2 weeks now and have done extensive reading on this forum prior to burning so I thought I knew what I was doing. I was using an IR gun to monitor my stove top temps which I have since replaced with a Rutland thermometer. Problem was the IR gun would give me readings that varied by about 300 degrees depending upon where on top of the firebox I aimed it. So I had started a fire with the firebox pretty full of splits, had the damper wide open to get it going, check it with my IR gun and though it needed to heat up some more (was less than 500), so I sat on the couch and let it burn some more. Well I went back to check the temps with the IR gun about 10 to 15 minutes later and noticed that the outside top of firebox was glowing. I immediately shut the damper all the way and it stopped glowing within a few minutes. The fan was on high the whole time. After it cooled down I looked it over and saw no signs of damage except that the top of the firebox is now warped and is no longer flat. It sticks up a little bit in the middle maybe 1/4 inch when cold and 1/2 inch when hot. It also creaks a lot when hot (not sure if this is normal). Did I ruin my stove? I have since used it and it seems to be working just fine and much better now that I have a real thermometer.

It's very frustrating that the manual that comes with the stove has little in the way of what temps to run it at or how they recommend you burn it. Telling me I've over fired it once it's glowing does very little to help me know when it's approaching that point. No doubt it's my fault this happened but just a little frustrated they don't give you better documentation with something that can be dangerous if misused.

Anyways I've attached a pic. It's the best I could get. Please let me know if you guys think I should be concerned.

Thanks
 

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I am sorry but it sure sounds like you put that car into a tree so to speak. Especially if you are talking about the exterior of the stove being warped. If this is a baffle plate, then perhaps it can be replaced. I'd call up the stove shop you bought this from and talk to them. Perhaps they can get you a new one if they can find reason to believe the overfire occurred because of a faulty gasket or something?

That's too bad.

My regrets.

pen
 
Where did you buy it? What make and model is it? What were you burning and how much? Personally I would have opened the damper and closed any vents.
 
Lots of wood stoves have glowed, especially inserts where you can't see behind the surround. What you are looking for is cracks. Warping the top plate isn't a good thing, it usually happens many years later. Not in two weeks. Was the glow actually all the way at the front of the top plate, or around the flue collar?

A good sign is that you didn't hear a loud "bang" sound and that you can still control the air as before.
 
I have the same thing on my HI300 for a few years. Hasn't been an issue. I got that sucka glowing a couple of times myself. I occasionally think about pulling it out, taking the top off and welding a new heavy plate on there myself- but I don't think it's a big deal.
 
Sorry to hear about it. I have an IR gun, but mostly operate it by watching the secondaries and touching the mantle. I have never noticed the stove top to glow and the mantle will get to 300 deg. on occasion with the interior of the box ranging from 775 to 850. The secondary tubes will be glowing at this point. However, in light of your post, I opened my door and looked in at the top of the stove and noticed that I have a bulge on the top in front of the flue pipe, not much, but it is there. The stove works fine, though.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone! I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one with this bulge. Like I said the stove still functions just fine and I don't see any signs of cracks or broken welds. Also, it still passes the dollar bill test. I think to be on the safe side I'll still give the installer a call just to get their take on it and have them inspect it if need be.

To clarify what I did when I noticed it was glowing I closed down my air control, I don't actually have a damper for the flue on this insert.

BrotherBart the glow was about in the center of the top plate a little in front of the flue collar. I had to actually look in there when pointing my IR gun to notice it. It's not as if I noticed it from the couch.
 
You said you had your 'damper' wide open but mention nothing of air controls. A damper would be in the stove pipe above the stove and is a bit of an outdated piece of equipment as most stoves don't need one. There are instances where some need them, however.

You air control is called a Draft Control in the Manual. That manual really does a great job of explaining burning so I am not sure what you think they left out? It is explained in your first fire section but it pplies to burning overall.

That creaking and popping you hear when heating up is normal. It is describes in the manual.

The bottom line is that you need to be on top of this appliance until you get used to it. I would not be walking away from a stove with a full load of wood and the air wide open when the stove is at 500 degrees. That is just nuts. 500 is definitely time to cut that air back and watch the secondaries rip. On my stove I close the bypass by 300 and cut the air back at around 400. At 500 I am about 1/2 to 2/3 closed on air and watching the fire works inside.
 
So, last night when I was waiting for the overnight load to catch I, too, overfired my stove. I suppose I have done it numerous times now, as I was doing nothing different then any other time. I loaded the firebox and waited for it to catch. I start to cut the draft back once I see good secondaries burning and all the wood is burning and charred. So, while doing this I decided to turn the lights out and that is when I notice the top of the stove, under the mantle, glowing just in front of the flue collar. I closed the draft and the glow went away in about five minutes. I wonder how many times I have done this?

One thing I find odd is that the manual states that to keep the keep unit free of creosote is to burn the stove with the draft wide open every morning for about 45 minutes. I have been doing this and with a decent size load in it. I, too, agree that the section on burning is a bit vague in regards to the temp to operate at and overfiring.

Also, the manual states that the blower must not be operated with the draft fully closed. Anyone know why?
 
I have actually been meaning to do a post aboput this. I have had an HI300 for two seasons now, and I have got the top of the stove glowing many times. In fact, I find it difficult to not get it glowing during the wide open draft beginning phase.

I wonder if this is an issue with all HI300 owners, and they just aren't aware of the glowing. You have to look back inside where the air blows out to see if it is glowing. Mine has the bulge as well. As far as I can tell everything is working okay, but it is a little bit of a concern.

As far as why you can't run the fan when it is shut down, that is because theoretically the stove would run too cool, and create a lot of creosote in the chimney. Practically, at least in my case, the stove doesn't put out very hot air at this setting anyway. I think it would be fine to do it as long as you kept up with your chimney sweeping. I bought a brush and rod set, and sweep a couple times a season, so I don't worry about creostoe build up.
 
I probably shouldn't be posting here, as I know nothing of stove inserts. However, I have overfired my QuadraFire 3100 to the point of the top glowing. I think I did it once in the first season and once a few years later. I believe this caused a deformity not as bad as yours, maybe 1/8" on a 28" wide top. Scared the heck out of me both times.

I guess you insert guys can't do this - I have a thermometer (now!) 6" up the chimney. I run the stove as high as 700 degrees for several minutes without glowing. I have it up to 800 degrees for a minute or two, also without glowing. But at this point, it would probably continue on to 900 and glow in short order.

As someone else said, you really have to watch it if you have a full firebox or small dry logs when the temperature gets over 500 or 600. You can't walk away with the air open. I close my primary usually at this point, unless the house is quite cold and I want to bring it up quickly. My QuadraFire manual was also slim on specific advice about overfiring/temperature, which I remember thinking was odd. Newcomers beware! Enjoy your stove - it is probably fine.
 
So I am firing up my overnight burn right now. In fact, it's pretty much ready for bed. This time, however, I did the whole thing with the IR gun in my hand. As it stands, I now have the draft cut back to half and the highest reading I am getting on the top of the stove under the mantle is 430 degrees. At this temp I am just starting to notice a very dim glow - almost imperceptible. It does seem that it is very easy to overfire this unit.

My question now is, at what temperature do the people who have a magnetic stove thermometer on the stove top run their stove at? I just ordered a thermometer today.

Thanks.
 
Tom I think you'll find once you get the magnetic stove thermometer that your IR readings are way off. This is what I noticed at least. I'm not sure if it's the angle of attack of the IR gun to get under the mantle, a cheap IR gun, or what. I'm still a newbie so maybe this isn't the best thing to do but with my thermometer on there I now let it get up to about 450 (with fan on high) and then I'll slowly start to cut the air back. I'll let it get up to about 550 max and then I'll close the air to my burn position which for me is almost but not quite the 1/2" from fully closed. Once I get the air into my burn position the temps stabilize. With the fan off I find that the temps are about 50 to 100 degrees hotter on the stove top. Since my glowing incident I've been monitoring for glowing very closely and haven't seen anymore since I've gotten my thermometer and have been running the insert in this manner. Also, I've noticed that if I shoot my IR gun next to my thermometer when it's reading 500 the IR shows about 300. Now I know why I overfired!
 
nothing on the outside of this stove should be glowing at 430F. Even if it were 430 celsius (806F) if it were glowing it would have to be COMPLETELY dark for you to see it.

Is it the top of the stove that is glowing or the baffle inside on the top of the stove?

pen
 
Thanks for the input Jason. I am anxious to get my thermometer.

Pen, as far as the glowing goes, it was the stove top and I did have the lights out so I could see it asap. I believe Jason has it right when he says the angle of the beam does not reflect the true temp when shooting at the stove top between the top of the door and the bottom of the mantle. I don't think it is the gun as it is a Fieldpiece, which are pretty good.
 
you cant run the stove with out the fan on..keep the fan on auto...if the air is fully open dont leave the stove unattended..when you reload the fire with dry seasoned wood ..let it go for about 15 min..then put the air almost all the way closed..leave the fan on low and go to bed...the only time i look at the top of my insert is during spring or fall cleaning...if the stove was installed correctly you have nothing to worry about.
 
Putting a time frame(manual) on running the stove wide open is stupid IMHO, every situtation is different with drafts and wood and how dry the wood, if I ran my stove wide open for 45 mins my flue would melt.
 
oldspark said:
Putting a time frame(manual) on running the stove wide open is stupid IMHO, every situtation is different with drafts and wood and how dry the wood, if I ran my stove wide open for 45 mins my flue would melt.
Click to expand...

The manual also states, "after each fuel loading the fan must be shut off until 30 minutes has elapsed."
 
I've had a few run aways myself where the stove top was glowing. This was concentrated around the stove pipe connection and out about 6 inches. This has happened with a full load with wide open draft. It has also happened with a partially closed draft (about 1" from wide open). Each load is different so be careful.

Here's what to look for. Take a flash light and look inside the blower chamber at the weld seams along the entire stove top. You should see a nice bead of welding. If your stove top is warped, it most likely means it got hot enough to soften the medal and then it harden this way. I would say you are safe if your weld seams along the sides are still there without any cracks. You should also take a look inside the stove above the baffle. Hopefully the stove top is not too close to the baffle (meaning it sagging too much).

The first five to ten minutes on this stove are critical. Don't walk away. The manual is somewhat misleading when they say run it wide open for 45 minutes in the morning. You can do this, but make sure you don't load it chuck full. I've done it with three small splits burning hot with no glowing stove top.

As far a closing it down and running the blower. I do it all the time. When the secondary’s go out, I start opening the draft slowly. If you can't close it down and run the blower (auto setting), you don't have a good enough draft or your wood may not be dry enough. I would not do this overnight because you'll end up with a bunch of charcoal in the AM (stove cools down after secondary’s go out).
 
bjkjoseph said:
15 minutes...where did you get 45...the info comes from the manual from hampton. so who's stupid.
Click to expand...
TomNJ "One thing I find odd is that the manual states that to keep the keep unit free of creosote is to burn the stove with the draft wide open every morning for about 45 minutes" I am stupid but at least I read the posts.
 
bjkjoseph said:
15 minutes...where did you get 45...the info comes from the manual from hampton. so who's stupid.
Click to expand...

Page 21.

Ways to Prevent and
Keep Unit Free of Creosote
1) Burn insert with draft control wide open for
about 45 minutes every morning during
burning season. This helps to prevent creosote
deposits within the heating system.


15 minutes is after a reload.

2) Burn insert with draft control wide open for
about 10 - 15 minutes every time you add
fresh wood. This allows the wood to achieve
the charcoal stage faster and burns up any
wood vapors which might otherwise be
deposited within the system.
 
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