Why Doesn't VC Give-Up on Refractory Parts?

leeave96 said:

I read over and over again on this forum of folks having to replace their refactory parts on their VC products. Apparently they are prone to cracking, crumbling and breaking and the parts aren't cheap!

The VC stoves are a thing of beauty so why can't they just build a stove without the refractory parts and get-on with making a great stove?

Off my soap box now.....

Bill

Click to expand...

Supposedly the new 2-in-1 VC stoves have a completely new Cat assembly that eliminate this issue. I'm taking a look at one this week. I might put my Vigilant out to pasture in the next two seasons.

Just got back from looking at a 2-in-1 Encore.

Good news: Way better cat assembly. Durable looking. Thick. Hard as hell. Fire brick feel.

Bad news: The flimsy refractory material is still used as a back panel.

The owner of the VC dealer by me is a pretty good guy to talk with. Very up front and readily admits the issues that have plagued VC. From the Defiant 2-in1 he is getting 10 hours of really heat production out of the stove. I am getting parts pricing from him in regards to the back panel refractory material.

I assume Vermont Castings uses its reputation of making the worlds best stoves for the first thirty years of their existence to sell the crap they make today. They still do make some of the most beautiful looking stoves out there........ but you are right, the guts in them are junk.

Interestingly though, there is a lifetime warranty on the ceramic parts. Or at least there is on mine, which we bought a year ago.

pyper said:

Interestingly though, there is a lifetime warranty on the ceramic parts. Or at least there is on mine, which we bought a year ago.

Click to expand...

Yes, I got a lifetime warranty on the refractory parts in my Defiant also. I have less than two full heating seasons on our stove and I'm looking at about $500 in replacement parts to fix it. Unfortunately, my lifetime warranty expired when VC realized they had a problem and filed for bankruptcy protection. I sincerely hope you have better results than all of us suckers who bought the last generation of Vermont Castings stoves.

Obviously VC is capable of using a more durable refractory material. The refractory in my VC Madison is all standard height and thickness firebrick. The two I cracked in the first six years of use were even standard width ones too. I replaced the cracked ones this fall with Rutland fire bricks for $5 each. Therefore, I'm a happy VC customer. Unfortunately, they discontinued the stove after only a few years because more people liked a top loading stove with everburn instead of a side loading stove with traditional stainless secondary tubes.

Ductape said:

I assume Vermont Castings uses its reputation of making the worlds best stoves for the first thirty years of their existence to sell the crap they make today. They still do make some of the most beautiful looking stoves out there........ but you are right, the guts in them are junk.

Click to expand...

The only thing is, they have had the refractory problems since the 80's correct? They stated the company in the 70's correct?

So the reputation they are riding on is from the first 10 years. From the original Defiant that was the best selling stove in its day. And the first line of stoves they came out with before the cat stoves. Like the second stove they put out: the Vigilant. Once they got into the cats they started using the flimsy refractory material. They tried to go back to the non cats but still kept the cat line. Maybe this is what's wrong. They have way too many kinds of stoves to keep up with it all. Sort of like a restaurant with way too many items on the menu. They can,t possibly keep the food fresh enough or have all the food pass top quality demands. Maybe they need to simplify their wood stove line?

Ductape said:

Unfortunately, my lifetime warranty expired when VC realized they had a problem and filed for bankruptcy protection.

Click to expand...

Not exactly "protection", the previous VC owners (CFM) filed for bankruptcy and the VC assests were purchased by MHSC. Different companies, different owners.

VCBurner said:

Maybe they need to simplify their wood stove line?

Click to expand...

I'm sure that's the whole reason behind developing the 2in1. Now there's just one model of Defiant instead of two, and you can use it as cat or non-cat.

branchburner said:

VCBurner said:

Maybe they need to simplify their wood stove line?

Click to expand...

I'm sure that's the whole reason behind developing the 2in1. Now there's just one model of Defiant instead of two, and you can use it as cat or non-cat.

Click to expand...

Do they still have the cat and non-cats for sale though?

VCBurner said:

branchburner said:

VCBurner said:

Maybe they need to simplify their wood stove line?

Click to expand...

I'm sure that's the whole reason behind developing the 2in1. Now there's just one model of Defiant instead of two, and you can use it as cat or non-cat.

Click to expand...

Do they still have the cat and non-cats for sale though?

Click to expand...

Yes. Not sure for how long, though. It seems like they are moving into the 2-in-1 direction (why would you buy one of their cat-only models?). My feeling is that it will be a 2-in-1 stove or a non-cat stove based on how I see their model line.

BrowningBAR said:

VCBurner said:

branchburner said:

VCBurner said:

Maybe they need to simplify their wood stove line?

Click to expand...

I'm sure that's the whole reason behind developing the 2in1. Now there's just one model of Defiant instead of two, and you can use it as cat or non-cat.

Click to expand...

Do they still have the cat and non-cats for sale though?

Click to expand...

Yes. Not sure for how long, though. It seems like they are moving into the 2-in-1 direction (why would you buy one of their cat-only models?). My feeling is that it will be a 2-in-1 stove or a non-cat stove based on how I see their model line.

Click to expand...

It would also make sense to me to sell one or the other. Based on whichever yields the best results, so they know that the buyer will be pleased with the results. Then stand behind the product.

VCBurner said:

BrowningBAR said:

VCBurner said:

branchburner said:

VCBurner said:

Maybe they need to simplify their wood stove line?

Click to expand...

I'm sure that's the whole reason behind developing the 2in1. Now there's just one model of Defiant instead of two, and you can use it as cat or non-cat.

Click to expand...

Do they still have the cat and non-cats for sale though?

Click to expand...

Yes. Not sure for how long, though. It seems like they are moving into the 2-in-1 direction (why would you buy one of their cat-only models?). My feeling is that it will be a 2-in-1 stove or a non-cat stove based on how I see their model line.

Click to expand...

It would also make sense to me to sell one or the other. Based on whichever yields the best results, so they know that the buyer will be pleased with the results. Then stand behind the product.

Click to expand...

Based on the design, they've already made that decision. To me it seems like 2-in-1 is the direction they are headed in for their cat models. I'm pricing out replacement parts, but, to me, it is a huge improvement in design.