They are comparable in specs but I cannot decide which one to get. Anyone own one of these? Please fill me in on any problems, pros/cons of the unit AND customer service... and quality control.... Any input would be appreciated.... Thankyou
help- napoleon NZ26 or Kozy Heat Z42
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I haven't owned or used either of these units, but I would be leaning toward the Kozy for the larger capacity, clean burn and good reputation. The Kozy42 has several happy owners here.
I'll give you an honest 100% assessment of my satisfaction when I received my Kozyheat and how I feel now; I'm a no BS kinda guy, and I am very critical of small details.
First thing I noticed was that the 2nd layer heat shield above the firebox was bent down. This shield is only supported at it's attachment point on the sides. It is very thin sheet metal and very flimsy. That's not a problem if things are done right, but IMHO, they weren't. Kozyheat puts a very slight bend/crease right at the front edge of this sheet for "strength". But the bend is so small and so close to the edge that it doesn't help at all. The "lip" simply buckled and now that shield sags down; mind you that it's been like that since I got it, I didn't cause that in any way. It still bugs me after burning with it since October. Even with the front, top grate on, you can see this crooked/bent/buckled sheet metal between the bars. This is a fail on their part IMHO, any competent sheet-metal fabricator and/or engineer should have been able to see this design flaw long before anything was produced.
2nd gripe, this one is another very poor design but you only deal with it during install and only if installing ducts. There are 2 duct punch-outs on top. I think they area laser cut in there so it's a very thin cut line. The problem is that the punch-out is held in place with 3 connecting tabs vs. the 2 tabs that most have. With 2 tabs you can just twist it back and forth until the tabs fatigue and break/tear. With 3 tabs you have to somehow cut one out before you do this. So now you have to pry/twist it up to get cutters in there. This is a bit challenging, but the real trouble comes next. Under that outer shield is the same punch-out style that also needs taken out. Now, with mangled sharp edges along this hole you're reaching through twist/pry and cut the 2nd punch-out w/o cutting yourself on the sharp edges. Oh, I forgot to mention, this is in the 2nd layer heat shield mentioned above so if your heat shield wasn't damaged previously like mine, it's going to be damaged by the time you get those punch-outs out of there.
3rd gripe was that it seemed to burn very hot very fast no matter what I fed it. I've since then determined that I simply just have too much draft. I have an ideal draft condition where I am but I still wanted me chimney to meet/exceed code. My chimney height was really close to meeting that with a 1 foot section of pipe in it. I wanted to make sure that there was absolutely no question as to whether it was high enough or not so I decided to change to an 18" piece. They didn't have one at the time so they just gave me a 2 foot piece. I think the extra chimney height coupled with ideal draft conditions gives me "too much draft" if there is such a thing. Sometimes if the conditions are right the secondaries are clearly putting out wisps of air/flame that are 10+ inches long before they "blend together". You can tell that the draft is sucking air through the secondaries pretty hard and I may be losing a lot of heat out the top because of that.
4th gripe, they used some sort of silicone or high-temp silicone to stick the door gasket in place.Well, when silicone is overheated it turns to a white, crystalline powder that won't do jack. my gaskets all came off when I opened the door after my first fire. So I had to try to hold them in place and close the door so it sealed enough until that fire could die down all the way. Then scrape all the nasty powdered silicone residue off, try to get that off the gasket and then redo the gaskets. This was plain stupid and un-called for. Simply no explanation for it except lazy, cheap, or just too stupid to know the difference. They do send a tube of stove/gasket cement with the fireplace though so it didn't cost anything for the repair other than time and frustration.
5th gripe, We have the Z42CD model. The one handle is welded fast to the door and the other has is adjustable. The adjustable handle has a flat spot for the set screw so the latch stays put. This is all fine, but the 2 handles are attached at different angles. One of them sticks almost straight down and the other almost straight sideways when latched. So it looks horrible, almost like you've left the door unlatched when it is actually fully latched. There is no way to adjust the handle angle on the adjustable handle and still maintain proper functionality of the latch. This bothers me a lot too.
What do I think now? I love it. For my uses, where I've ducted the heat it is working great, my family room (location of the fireplace) doesn't get much warmer than the rooms where we ducted the heat. I can load up at night, get a good 7+ hours of sleep and still wake to a fairly warm fireplace and a good bed of coals to re-light from. I'm not saying it will keep the house up to temp overnight without a reload but that doesn't bother me. I get up for work almost 2 hours before my wife and I load it and she is happy when she gets up. The door opening is huge, really nice to put wood in, but that is also a small detriment that I'll touch on shortly. The air control is fairly easy to operate; I've found that the only time I have it opened is on start up. Once I get flames going enough to start heating the secondary air tubes and refractory panel up I can close the air completely off and the secondaries will take off and go like crazy. I think that is due to my excessive draft but I've gotten used to it.
Oops, ran out of characters, I'll continue below. Sorry for being so long-winded.
First thing I noticed was that the 2nd layer heat shield above the firebox was bent down. This shield is only supported at it's attachment point on the sides. It is very thin sheet metal and very flimsy. That's not a problem if things are done right, but IMHO, they weren't. Kozyheat puts a very slight bend/crease right at the front edge of this sheet for "strength". But the bend is so small and so close to the edge that it doesn't help at all. The "lip" simply buckled and now that shield sags down; mind you that it's been like that since I got it, I didn't cause that in any way. It still bugs me after burning with it since October. Even with the front, top grate on, you can see this crooked/bent/buckled sheet metal between the bars. This is a fail on their part IMHO, any competent sheet-metal fabricator and/or engineer should have been able to see this design flaw long before anything was produced.
2nd gripe, this one is another very poor design but you only deal with it during install and only if installing ducts. There are 2 duct punch-outs on top. I think they area laser cut in there so it's a very thin cut line. The problem is that the punch-out is held in place with 3 connecting tabs vs. the 2 tabs that most have. With 2 tabs you can just twist it back and forth until the tabs fatigue and break/tear. With 3 tabs you have to somehow cut one out before you do this. So now you have to pry/twist it up to get cutters in there. This is a bit challenging, but the real trouble comes next. Under that outer shield is the same punch-out style that also needs taken out. Now, with mangled sharp edges along this hole you're reaching through twist/pry and cut the 2nd punch-out w/o cutting yourself on the sharp edges. Oh, I forgot to mention, this is in the 2nd layer heat shield mentioned above so if your heat shield wasn't damaged previously like mine, it's going to be damaged by the time you get those punch-outs out of there.
3rd gripe was that it seemed to burn very hot very fast no matter what I fed it. I've since then determined that I simply just have too much draft. I have an ideal draft condition where I am but I still wanted me chimney to meet/exceed code. My chimney height was really close to meeting that with a 1 foot section of pipe in it. I wanted to make sure that there was absolutely no question as to whether it was high enough or not so I decided to change to an 18" piece. They didn't have one at the time so they just gave me a 2 foot piece. I think the extra chimney height coupled with ideal draft conditions gives me "too much draft" if there is such a thing. Sometimes if the conditions are right the secondaries are clearly putting out wisps of air/flame that are 10+ inches long before they "blend together". You can tell that the draft is sucking air through the secondaries pretty hard and I may be losing a lot of heat out the top because of that.
4th gripe, they used some sort of silicone or high-temp silicone to stick the door gasket in place.Well, when silicone is overheated it turns to a white, crystalline powder that won't do jack. my gaskets all came off when I opened the door after my first fire. So I had to try to hold them in place and close the door so it sealed enough until that fire could die down all the way. Then scrape all the nasty powdered silicone residue off, try to get that off the gasket and then redo the gaskets. This was plain stupid and un-called for. Simply no explanation for it except lazy, cheap, or just too stupid to know the difference. They do send a tube of stove/gasket cement with the fireplace though so it didn't cost anything for the repair other than time and frustration.
5th gripe, We have the Z42CD model. The one handle is welded fast to the door and the other has is adjustable. The adjustable handle has a flat spot for the set screw so the latch stays put. This is all fine, but the 2 handles are attached at different angles. One of them sticks almost straight down and the other almost straight sideways when latched. So it looks horrible, almost like you've left the door unlatched when it is actually fully latched. There is no way to adjust the handle angle on the adjustable handle and still maintain proper functionality of the latch. This bothers me a lot too.
What do I think now? I love it. For my uses, where I've ducted the heat it is working great, my family room (location of the fireplace) doesn't get much warmer than the rooms where we ducted the heat. I can load up at night, get a good 7+ hours of sleep and still wake to a fairly warm fireplace and a good bed of coals to re-light from. I'm not saying it will keep the house up to temp overnight without a reload but that doesn't bother me. I get up for work almost 2 hours before my wife and I load it and she is happy when she gets up. The door opening is huge, really nice to put wood in, but that is also a small detriment that I'll touch on shortly. The air control is fairly easy to operate; I've found that the only time I have it opened is on start up. Once I get flames going enough to start heating the secondary air tubes and refractory panel up I can close the air completely off and the secondaries will take off and go like crazy. I think that is due to my excessive draft but I've gotten used to it.
Oops, ran out of characters, I'll continue below. Sorry for being so long-winded.
Would I buy again? I'm not sure. My wife and I had narrowed it down to Kozyheat and Quadrafire. We ultimately decided on Kozyheat bc of the price and IMHO, the price is reflected in the quality of workmanship. If I was in a better financial situation I would have gone with the Quad we were looking at because it was larger and had a very, very good reputation. If I could do it all over again in the same financial situation I very well may end up with the same thing. Our decision to start burning wood was strictly financial. We live in an all-electric cookie cutter subdivision and I was not looking forward to a winter of exorbitantly high electric bills. I can deal with some of the gripes I have for the price difference, but they caught me off-guard because I was expecting something that was expertly crafted and manufactured with pride from the workers. IMHO, I didn't get that, but it does do the primary job it is intended to do, and it does it very well. I have a 4000 sf house. At this point we have the heat to most of the house shut off, actively heating about 1600 sf and "passively heating" the other 2400 sf through doors left open and heat leaking through uninsulated interior walls etc. I am happy with the heat output. During very cold or windy stretches we do have to stoke the fire often, and coal build up does become a problem, but you will never entirely get away from that.
Now, about the very large door opening. I have found that even with my excessive draft there are often times that the draft won't pull enough air to keep smoke from bellowing out into the room with both doors open. It is always fine with only one door open, but sometimes if you open the other door the smoke comes rolling out. This isn't a problem at all with the CD model where you have 2 cast doors, but I can easily see where the standard one-piece door may pose a problem with this. I would recommend getting the cast door model so you always have the option of keeping half of the door opening closed off to keep the smoke from coming into the room.
I hope this will help you in your decision. I hope my negativity doesn't turn you away from the Kozyheat. I just want to make sure you're fully aware of some of the things you may encounter. Like I said, I can get over most of the gripes, they just bug me because I'm a nit-picky sort of guy. If I were building the Kozyheat there is no way I would have let them leave the factory the way they did, I have too much pride in my workmanship to do something sub-par.
Also, I'm sure there are gripes about other options you've considered as well. Unfortunately though I cannot give an unbiased review of them because I don't have experience with them. I'm sure that if I had any fireplace put in front of me I could find some nit-picks and gripes about all of them, so keep that in mind when considering all the gripes I've listed.
Now, about the very large door opening. I have found that even with my excessive draft there are often times that the draft won't pull enough air to keep smoke from bellowing out into the room with both doors open. It is always fine with only one door open, but sometimes if you open the other door the smoke comes rolling out. This isn't a problem at all with the CD model where you have 2 cast doors, but I can easily see where the standard one-piece door may pose a problem with this. I would recommend getting the cast door model so you always have the option of keeping half of the door opening closed off to keep the smoke from coming into the room.
I hope this will help you in your decision. I hope my negativity doesn't turn you away from the Kozyheat. I just want to make sure you're fully aware of some of the things you may encounter. Like I said, I can get over most of the gripes, they just bug me because I'm a nit-picky sort of guy. If I were building the Kozyheat there is no way I would have let them leave the factory the way they did, I have too much pride in my workmanship to do something sub-par.
Also, I'm sure there are gripes about other options you've considered as well. Unfortunately though I cannot give an unbiased review of them because I don't have experience with them. I'm sure that if I had any fireplace put in front of me I could find some nit-picks and gripes about all of them, so keep that in mind when considering all the gripes I've listed.
We have a Z42CD and like it a lot. If you haven't already searchd the forums for Z42, you should. You'll find several satisfied owners as well as dealer(s).
We have a dealer in the area that's been in this business for 30+ years. The grandson of he founder said that since they started selling/installing Kozy Heats, in particular the Z42, they've installed dozens of them and don't get complaints. He also said that they are built quite strong and is the only zc unit they sell that he has no qualms standing-on during installation. Seems like a well-built unit to us.
We are very happy with it's ability to heat our living spaces.
A negative thing we encountered was the gasket cement (silicone?) used between the doors. Like the above poster, ours disintegrated fairly soon. The gasket was quickly tacked into place, however, so we consider that a minor issue.
Service? I think that depends primarily on your dealer. Kozy is accessible -they provide an email address and they respond; if you call, you can talk to a "tech".
We have a dealer in the area that's been in this business for 30+ years. The grandson of he founder said that since they started selling/installing Kozy Heats, in particular the Z42, they've installed dozens of them and don't get complaints. He also said that they are built quite strong and is the only zc unit they sell that he has no qualms standing-on during installation. Seems like a well-built unit to us.
We are very happy with it's ability to heat our living spaces.
A negative thing we encountered was the gasket cement (silicone?) used between the doors. Like the above poster, ours disintegrated fairly soon. The gasket was quickly tacked into place, however, so we consider that a minor issue.
Service? I think that depends primarily on your dealer. Kozy is accessible -they provide an email address and they respond; if you call, you can talk to a "tech".
Fsappo
Minister of Fire
Napoleon. They named their company after a short nasty guy.
I also have had good success with their products.
I also have had good success with their products.
Hmmmm thanks a lot for the info. The little things would bother me too. Also, being in tx there are limited dealers, so i want to get the most trouble-free known unit. thanks for the info
You will get over some of them with time, but they are still there in the back of your mind. Maybe I got the one that was made at 7 am on Monday morning right after a big holiday weekend. I know that I'm in the minority with my gripes so I have always wondered if maybe I just got a lemon. There seem to be many other owners that didn't have all the problems I had.joel95ex said:Hmmmm thanks a lot for the info. The little things would bother me too. Also, being in tx there are limited dealers, so i want to get the most trouble-free known unit. thanks for the info
New to the forum here . i just installed a Napoleon NZ 26 in my house and it is pretty nice overall. I have burned wood for the last four years in a Napoleon 1100C which I love but we moved and needed a stove that could connect to the HVAC system. My primary issue with it is that I cannot seem to get a decent burn time from it. However , my wood is not the best and I am still getting used to the stove. i have installed a Flame Monaco zc for a customer and the NZ26 is better in quality between those two. Don't have any experience with the kozy though.
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