Operating Questions for Harman TL300 owners

redhorse · Dec 23, 2010

First, let me say I'm new to the forum; I've read tons of useful information here -- great posts!

We just purchased a Harman TL300 (to replace an old, OLD Baker wood/coal stove from the early 80s -- it was time!) The Harman is not installed yet, but I think we've got the basics of how to operate it: add wood, let the stove top get up to about 500-600 degrees, then close the damper so the AB starts.

But I do have a couple questions: do we need to let the AB shut down before reloading? With our current stove, we sometimes add wood when we get home and then fill it before going to bed, which might be only a couple hours later. (Same is true in the morning: fill it when we get up, do the farm chores, get ready for work, then fill it right before we leave.) Can wood be "gradually" added to the TL300 (throw in a log every now and then) or is it better to fill it, heat it, close the damper, and then let it burn down to coals before reloading? What gives the best performance?

Another question: our chimney clean out is not air tight. Should we try to get that sealed before installing the TL300?

We're really looking forward to the new stove; we're tired of feeding this wood eating beast we are currently using. Our wood pile is almost gone and it's only December.

Rob From Wisconsin · Dec 23, 2010

We had the same issue with our chimney cleanout when we moved into our
current house. Using some Rutland rope gasketing & their cement fixed it
just fine. In my opinion, a "sealed" flue system can only help your overall draft.

branchburner · Dec 23, 2010

redhorse said:
Can wood be "gradually" added to the TL300 (throw in a log every now and then) or is it better to fill it, heat it, close the damper, and then let it burn down to coals before reloading? What gives the best performance?

Welcome to the forums! The best will be burning a full cycle down to coals, but no problem to add wood anytime during the cycle - I do it all the time, especially when it's really cold out and the coals aren't going to give me enough heat. Or if I'm timing a load for a long burn, as you described.

There's a bit more to it than just getting the stove up to temp - you need a good bed of coals. You will find reloading on a good coal bed to be a lot easier than starting from an ice cold stove. With a cold start, it's sometimes a challenge to keep the stove/flue from getting too hot before there are enough coals for the AB to stay running. But it's a great stove for 24/7 cold weather burning.

Might be a good idea just to gasket/caulk the cleanout door to reduce any air leaks into the flue. Most importantly, you are going to want well-seasoned wood for this stove to perform best, ideally meaning cut/split/stacked a year or more.

redhorse · Dec 24, 2010

Rob From Wisconsin said:
In my opinion, a "sealed" flue system can only help your overall draft.

That's pretty much what I thought as well. Thanks.

redhorse · Dec 24, 2010

branchburner said:
There's a bit more to it than just getting the stove up to temp - you need a good bed of coals. You will find reloading on a good coal bed to be a lot easier than starting from an ice cold stove. With a cold start, it's sometimes a challenge to keep the stove/flue from getting too hot before there are enough coals for the AB to stay running. But it's a great stove for 24/7 cold weather burning.

Thanks. I had seen some videos on the Harman web site and they continually talked about having a good bed of coals. I would assume on a cold start, you could just run with the damper open for awhile to develop a good bed of coals?

[quote}Most importantly, you are going to want well-seasoned wood for this stove to perform best, ideally meaning cut/split/stacked a year or more.[/quote]
Yep, we're going to have to change our ways a little bit on this new stove. We season our wood, but we're used to throwing in logs 12+" in diameter, unsplit. We've been lax in splitting the pieces we know will fit into our current stove. The biggest complaint I heard when we went to buy the Harman was now small the top opening was and how much more work it was going to be to split the wood smaller. Since I do most of the splitting, I'm not sure why that was even an issue.

branchburner · Dec 25, 2010

redhorse said:
I would assume on a cold start, you could just run with the damper open for awhile to develop a good bed of coals?

Correct, you just want to watch your temps. Sometime I close the damper for a bit even before the AB will be ready to kick in, just to slow the fire, and then open it back up again. The quickest way is to use plenty of smaller splits/branches to get sufficient coals on a cold start. That is also the quickest way to overfire the stove if not careful, but it's an easy enough balancing act to manage.

murawski · Feb 14, 2011

Hey redhorse, hows the TL300 burnin?
I just installed one last month and have had a few problems learning how to burn with it.
I had to increase my class a chimney by 6 feet (About 17ft total run now)
Its been a bit picky with the afterburner

Mike Murawski

redhorse · Feb 15, 2011

murawski said:
Hey redhorse, hows the TL300 burnin?
I just installed one last month and have had a few problems learning how to burn with it.
I had to increase my class a chimney by 6 feet (About 17ft total run now)
Its been a bit picky with the afterburner

Mike Murawski

Not well at all....

murawski · Feb 15, 2011

give me a call 978 875 0973

ddklahr · Feb 15, 2011

We operate our TL300 similar to branchburner. A good coal bed is the key to success for this stove to put out the heat and activate the afterburner. Occasionally, we will close the bypass and 20 minutes later, the stove temp drops. We just open the bypass back up and re-fire it. Once we do that, the "jet engine" takes off. We routinely get anywhere from 8-12 hour burns. I fired ours back up around 5:00 this evening after loading it around 10:00 last night. That was 19 hours and we still had just enough coals to start the next load. We are having mild temperatures right now, so we don't need the stove running full bore all day long.

When we first installed, we had a terrible time getting a good fire. Once I added another 4' of chimney length and started using a temperature gauge, we have had really good luck. We are heating a 2400 sq. ft., two-story farm house and not needing our furnace. Our upstairs is a pinch cooler, but good for sleeping.

redhorse · Feb 15, 2011

ksburner said:
We operate our TL300 similar to branchburner. A good coal bed is the key to success for this stove to put out the heat and activate the afterburner. Occasionally, we will close the bypass and 20 minutes later, the stove temp drops. We just open the bypass back up and re-fire it. Once we do that, the "jet engine" takes off. We routinely get anywhere from 8-12 hour burns. I fired ours back up around 5:00 this evening after loading it around 10:00 last night. That was 19 hours and we still had just enough coals to start the next load. We are having mild temperatures right now, so we don't need the stove running full bore all day long.

When we first installed, we had a terrible time getting a good fire. Once I added another 4' of chimney length and started using a temperature gauge, we have had really good luck. We are heating a 2400 sq. ft., two-story farm house and not needing our furnace. Our upstairs is a pinch cooler, but good for sleeping.

We typically have a good 3-4" of coals... up to the bottom of the front load door and sometimes higher. Where do you use a temp gauge -- load door or stack? We have one on the load door and could usually get it into AB around 500 or 550 (sometimes 450). The problem is that it would kick out pretty quickly even with the air flow on high.

Now we can't even get a fire going. The minute we close all the doors, the fire dies.

MishMouse · Feb 15, 2011

redhorse said:
We typically have a good 3-4" of coals... up to the bottom of the front load door and sometimes higher. Where do you use a temp gauge -- load door or stack? We have one on the load door and could usually get it into AB around 500 or 550 (sometimes 450). The problem is that it would kick out pretty quickly even with the air flow on high.

Now we can't even get a fire going. The minute we close all the doors, the fire dies.

This sounds like one or more of the following:
1) Either a big split of wood is blocking the back of your stove and is covering the AB chamber.
2) Your wood is not seasoned.
3) You are leaving the air to high on the stove, when you close the bypass bring your air down, less is more with this stove.
Since this is a downdraft stove what you might be doing since you leave the stove on high is pushing the heat out the flue instead letting the AB chamber do its job.
Try this:
When you get the fire going stovetop 300-400 with flames covering the box, leave the bypass open and close the primary air all the way.
What should happen is you should see flames shooting out of the little holes on the back of your stove from the secondary air.
If you do not see this then install a Outside Air Kit on the stove, if you already have one then something is wrong with the secondary air and report this to your stove tech.
4) Draft issue
You should not have to keep the doors open to keep the fire going unless you have poor draft and wet wood. Unseasoned wood is a killer for any EPA stove. Not one EPA stove burns efficiently with wet wood.

ddklahr · Feb 15, 2011

We have the temperature gauge on the top load door. Assuming we have the wood positioned right and flames are not shooting straight up the chimney to cause it to start glowing, we aim for 500-550 degrees before shutting the bypass. There are times, we close it at 450 and still get the afterburner to kick in. It does vary from fire to fire. Now, once you close the bypass, the flaming fire will discipate and the wood basically "smolders". I know that is not the right term, but the roaring fire definately goes away. If you are expecting a roaring fire, you will be disappointed, at least in my opinion.

To get a fire going with minimal coals or from scratch, I will open the bottom ash box door to get addition draft from the bottom side. Do not leave the stove with this open, it can get out of hand if you do this. I just stay by the stove and vary how much the door stays open. It will get to a point where you can close it and keep the fire going. Then, just wait for your temperature to get to its point before closing the bypass. Draft is a huge issue with these stoves. The owners manual will tell you at a minimum of how much chimney length you need. Make sure you are at that point. According to the manual, you need at least 16' of chimney above the stove.

I will also leave the air flow slide on full (All the way to the right) for about 5-10 minutes before sliding it back down to the left. Typically, we will bring the slide back between the 2nd and 3rd notch. If it is really cold, we will set the air lever between the 3rd and 4th notch. We also have a blower on our stove so that will affect the stove temp as the air goes across it.

redhorse · Feb 15, 2011

[quote author="MishMouse" date="1297799374"
This sounds like one or more of the following:
1) Either a big split of wood is blocking the back of your stove and is covering the AB chamber. [/quote]

We thought of that and have been very careful to make sure it is not covered. We can actually see the dome.

2) Your wood is not seasoned.

We thought that was the problem with our 18-20% wood so bought some kiln dried (measures on the average about 12-14%). Harman told the tech that wood that is too dry will cause problems. So we have been burning a combination.

3) You are leaving the air to high on the stove, when you close the bypass bring your air down, less is more with this stove.
Since this is a downdraft stove what you might be doing since you leave the stove on high is pushing the heat out the flue instead letting the AB chamber do its job.

This is possible, but when we push it down past half, the AB goes out...

Try this:
When you get the fire going stovetop 300-400 with flames covering the box, leave the bypass open and close the primary air all the way.
What should happen is you should see flames shooting out of the little holes on the back of your stove from the secondary air.
If you do not see this then install a Outside Air Kit on the stove, if you already have one then something is wrong with the secondary air and report this to your stove tech.

When we fire it up I'll look for those flames. We do get them with the bypass closed... I've not checked with the bypass open.

4) Draft issue
You should not have to keep the doors open to keep the fire going unless you have poor draft and wet wood. Unseasoned wood is a killer for any EPA stove. Not one EPA stove burns efficiently with wet wood.

We have the tech checking about draft now. He came out and measured it and got 0.06 with AB engaged (with Harman saying 0.03 is minimal), but with the set up we have in our chimney, I'm thinking draft is probably the culprit. Of course, I'm not sure why that would mean we can't get a fire going if the doors are all closed. Open the ash door and instant roaring fire.

Thanks.

redhorse · Feb 15, 2011

ksburner said:
We have the temperature gauge on the top load door. Assuming we have the wood positioned right and flames are not shooting straight up the chimney to cause it to start glowing, we aim for 500-550 degrees before shutting the bypass. There are times, we close it at 450 and still get the afterburner to kick in. It does vary from fire to fire. Now, once you close the bypass, the flaming fire will discipate and the wood basically "smolders". I know that is not the right term, but the roaring fire definately goes away. If you are expecting a roaring fire, you will be disappointed, at least in my opinion.

To get a fire going with minimal coals or from scratch, I will open the bottom ash box door to get addition draft from the bottom side. Do not leave the stove with this open, it can get out of hand if you do this. I just stay by the stove and vary how much the door stays open. It will get to a point where you can close it and keep the fire going. Then, just wait for your temperature to get to its point before closing the bypass. Draft is a huge issue with these stoves. The owners manual will tell you at a minimum of how much chimney length you need. Make sure you are at that point. According to the manual, you need at least 16' of chimney above the stove.

I will also leave the air flow slide on full (All the way to the right) for about 5-10 minutes before sliding it back down to the left. Typically, we will bring the slide back between the 2nd and 3rd notch. If it is really cold, we will set the air lever between the 3rd and 4th notch. We also have a blower on our stove so that will affect the stove temp as the air goes across it.

We try AB when the stove top is 400; if it doesn't work, we got o 450, then 500, then 550. We have been judging whether or not the AB is in by checking the chimney -- no smoke, AB in. But we've never had any good heat or jet engines or anything like that from the AB except twice (once in the middle of the night and it woke me up).

Is it possible the with no smoke coming from the chimney the AB isn't "fully" kicked in and we need to go higher on the temps?

branchburner · Feb 15, 2011

I'm not sure if this can be done the same with your stove, but with the Oakwood I can put a thermometer on the side of the rear burn chamber. When the AB is not engaged it will read between 100-200F. When the AB kicks in, it quickly pushes 500F (sometimes rising to 800-900F) and will remain in that 400-600 range for some time before dropping back a bit.

I cannot explain this, but I've noticed even with no smoke coming out of the stack that sometimes the temp in back is very low. It would seem there is secondary combustion, yet the stove is not throwing the expected heat. This often correlates with a rather high flue temp, even with the primary air shut - it seems under certain conditions the stove is drafting too hard.

After long relying only on stove top temps, I now prefer to monitor the flue temp and the rear burn chamber temp. The key to the AB is the depth and intensity of the coal bed, and whether a split is blocking the air flow. So stove top temps don't always tell the story, so I do it by feel, not by temp. If I'm starting from a cold stove, temps may be 600-700 before I shut the bypass. But reloading a quarter-full stove on a deep coal bed, 500F may be fine. (Since I have the cast-iron Oakwood, I can't say how those temps compare to the TL300.)

Troutchaser · Feb 15, 2011

Stove top temps. tell me how much heat is getting into the house and very little about when to engage the AB.
Flue temps tell it all for engaging the AB.
After things settle out in the first 30 minutes, I know the AB is working by stove temps.

Bburners high flue temps and low chamber temps that he sometimes sees might have something to do with a very strong draft- even with the air shut, which could be pulling the hot temps up too fast.
Maybe?

redhorse · Feb 16, 2011

branchburner said:
I cannot explain this, but I've noticed even with no smoke coming out of the stack that sometimes the temp in back is very low. It would seem there is secondary combustion, yet the stove is not throwing the expected heat. This often correlates with a rather high flue temp, even with the primary air shut - it seems under certain conditions the stove is drafting too hard.

This is what we are seeing. We don't have a thermometer for the back of the stove, but we do test the back by touching the rear shield (where the instructions are written). Sometimes it is barely warm to the touch, sometimes it is hot enough for only a quick pat. With the AB in (no smoke), very often it is only slightly warm to the touch.

I talked with a dealer who had three cases of the stove drafting too hard and not producing heat. I don't know why our set up would cause the stove to draft too hard; several people have suggested the draft is not high enough (due to the non-airtight connection of the stove pipe to the chimney liner).

I guess we're going to have to monitor stack temps to find out for sure.

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Operating Questions for Harman TL300 owners

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