Backwoods Savage said:
My chimney is 3' taller than than the peak of my roof. Which is the only thing within 10' and its actually further than that.
Help me choose the best stove So I dont make the same mistake twice.
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My chimney is 3' taller than than the peak of my roof. Which is the only thing within 10' and its actually further than that.
Yes, low slope roofs are pretty common on mobiles. It does present a challenge. Add a few feet to the flue and brace it. I think you will notice the difference.
Something else to consider as you set up a heating system is thermal mass. If you're heating an area without much thermal mass (the density of the objects around the heat source that soak up excessive heat and release it when the temperatures around it are cooler), it's hard to get comfortable heat from a woodstove. Thermal mass serves a kind of `tempering' or flywheel funtion of flattening out temperature fluctuations. You'll see this principle in a tile floor that soaks up heat from direct sunlight, and is still warm underfoot when the sun has moved away, or when people paint steel drums black and fill them with water and place them in a greenhouse, where they soak up heat and release it slowly at night. I may not have explained that clearly, so ask if it doesn't make sense to you.
Trailers, by nature, are usually short on thermal mass because they are built to be light and easily transported. A log cabin, on the other hand, may not be the most energy efficient design, but because large logs have a lot of thermal mass, once the logs heat up, they radiate heat back from the walls in, making them very comfortable. Soapstone stoves have a lot of thermal mass, and tend to help keep a place warm by radiating the heat even after the fire is out. Cast iron stoves do that to a lesser degree, and steel stoves even less--they heat up fast and release heat quickly.
You can compensate for lack of thermal mass in a trailer and/or a steel stove by building a hearth with dense material (stone, usually) that will soak up heat and release it more slowly over time. Downside of this is that you have to have the heat in the first place to get it warm--otherwise the thermal mass works against you by soaking up the heat that your stove is producing. Overall, I think that this adds a lot to the comfort level of heating with wood, but it's not something I see discussed a lot here, so thought I'd mention it.
Agreed against trying to burn that puppy full-out 24-7. Not only will that burn the stove out, it'll burn you out. Sounds very stressful to be monitoring a stove running at that degree of intensity. For comparision's sake, I aim to burn my stove at full bore every day for about 20 minutes. The rest of the time that I have it burning, unless the house is cold and I'm trying to get it up to temp, I usually have it on `cruise'--running about half-open to shut down. The short, daily wide-open burn is recommended by the manufacturer to `clear it's throat' as someone here put it--clean out any creosote before it has a chance to build up.
As far as the stack is concerned, there's another saying floating around the wood-burning world: the stack is the engine that runs the stove. The movement of air is what makes the fire generate heat. The speed of that air moving through is determined by several factors working together, and one of these is the lenght of the stovepipe. There are some good, newbie-friendly articles on designing heating systems (stove-stack-house-wood working together as a system) on the Fireview site. While this information library was compiled with their stoves in mind, a lot of the information is general and applies to other set-ups as well.
Here's a link: http://www.woodstove.com/index.php/fireview#bottomLib
Setting up a functional, safe, efficient heating system takes some time and thought and research, and frustration seems to be an inherent part of the process. Depending upon whether you've lived with other woodstoves or not, you'll still have a bit of a learning curve getting used to the controls on the buck. Hang in there--take it a step at a time--think through all your moves before you make them. It'll all be worth it when you're done.
Trailers, by nature, are usually short on thermal mass because they are built to be light and easily transported. A log cabin, on the other hand, may not be the most energy efficient design, but because large logs have a lot of thermal mass, once the logs heat up, they radiate heat back from the walls in, making them very comfortable. Soapstone stoves have a lot of thermal mass, and tend to help keep a place warm by radiating the heat even after the fire is out. Cast iron stoves do that to a lesser degree, and steel stoves even less--they heat up fast and release heat quickly.
You can compensate for lack of thermal mass in a trailer and/or a steel stove by building a hearth with dense material (stone, usually) that will soak up heat and release it more slowly over time. Downside of this is that you have to have the heat in the first place to get it warm--otherwise the thermal mass works against you by soaking up the heat that your stove is producing. Overall, I think that this adds a lot to the comfort level of heating with wood, but it's not something I see discussed a lot here, so thought I'd mention it.
Agreed against trying to burn that puppy full-out 24-7. Not only will that burn the stove out, it'll burn you out. Sounds very stressful to be monitoring a stove running at that degree of intensity. For comparision's sake, I aim to burn my stove at full bore every day for about 20 minutes. The rest of the time that I have it burning, unless the house is cold and I'm trying to get it up to temp, I usually have it on `cruise'--running about half-open to shut down. The short, daily wide-open burn is recommended by the manufacturer to `clear it's throat' as someone here put it--clean out any creosote before it has a chance to build up.
As far as the stack is concerned, there's another saying floating around the wood-burning world: the stack is the engine that runs the stove. The movement of air is what makes the fire generate heat. The speed of that air moving through is determined by several factors working together, and one of these is the lenght of the stovepipe. There are some good, newbie-friendly articles on designing heating systems (stove-stack-house-wood working together as a system) on the Fireview site. While this information library was compiled with their stoves in mind, a lot of the information is general and applies to other set-ups as well.
Here's a link: http://www.woodstove.com/index.php/fireview#bottomLib
Setting up a functional, safe, efficient heating system takes some time and thought and research, and frustration seems to be an inherent part of the process. Depending upon whether you've lived with other woodstoves or not, you'll still have a bit of a learning curve getting used to the controls on the buck. Hang in there--take it a step at a time--think through all your moves before you make them. It'll all be worth it when you're done.
I'm in Bowling Green KY and while you've received excellent advice on your setup, I fear your fuel is really holding you back. I, nor anyone I know who really heats with wood, fools with our sycamore. As dry as yours is I suspect it flames up and essentially dies out minutes later without providing any heat. Is there an experienced wood burner you could get some better fuel from? Can you find a White Ash and get it cut & split?
Stephen in SoKY said:
What about osage-orange or hedge applewood? I can get my hands on some of this how does it burn?
snowleopard said:
Thanks for the info. I will check out that site and see what I can find out. Thanks again.
Renovation
New Member
snowleopard said:
Wow, nicely done, Snowleopard! A pleasure to read. :thumbsup:
And to the OP, yeah, keep at it. If you follow the excellent advice here--adding chimney being job one--you'll be fine. Good luck!
PARKBOY said:
Boy, you go from one extreme to another. Osage orange is one of the highest btu woods available in North America. The old timers used to be very leary of it because with the poor draft control and thin metal of the old time stoves it could get hot enough to burn through the stove (so they said). Many people do toss in a chuck to extend the overnight burn times. I would suppose that modern stoves could be controlled well enough that it should work very well. Anyone actually use any?
Boy, is it ever a bear to cut once it is dry!
jotul8e2 said:
Just came back from picking up a load of wood that is suppose to be Osage Orange. Man does this stuff split easily, and its a yellowish color. I added some pics to see if you guys think it really is osage orange because I have no idea.
mbutts
Member
Concerning using Osage orange, I know of someone who pretty much used it exclusively in a Dutchwest cat stove. He had one of the best chimney setups I have seen. Drafted like a blow torch.
If it hasn't been split for some time, it's gonna be awfully wet for this year. That's why I mentioned White Ash. If you can't get dry/seasoned wood, cut & split at least a year, White ash will burn straight off the stump. It won't be the best, but you can get by with it in a real pinch.
Big Al
New Member
PARKBOY said:
Try starting a thread and posting those pictures on the wood shed forum here. You'll likely get an answer more quickly
Can't help you on that--pretty much limited to various poplars, birch, and spruce around here. You might take this question and pix over to the Wood Shed forum--someone over there might be of more use.
You're welcome for the post above. Take what I say with a grain of salt--not everyone agrees with the ideas that I shared. Do your homework and you'll start to come to your own conclusions.
Hope that the wood works out for you. Is it burning any warmer, and solving your heating problems? That Buck still sounds a little light for 1600SF, but might be just right for your climate. Let us know what you learn and what you decide.
Gentleman George, I thank you for your kind words.
ETA: Whoops, sorry Caveman--had this sitting out in `reply' mode too long, missed your post.
You're welcome for the post above. Take what I say with a grain of salt--not everyone agrees with the ideas that I shared. Do your homework and you'll start to come to your own conclusions.
Hope that the wood works out for you. Is it burning any warmer, and solving your heating problems? That Buck still sounds a little light for 1600SF, but might be just right for your climate. Let us know what you learn and what you decide.
Gentleman George, I thank you for your kind words.
ETA: Whoops, sorry Caveman--had this sitting out in `reply' mode too long, missed your post.
snowleopard said:
Burned the osage orange wood last night and it made a big difference but not enough. I know one thing this new wood sparks all over the place everytime I open the stove. Im gonna try to add more chimney length next. I have a chance to trade my model 18 for a model 91 cat stove but the only problem is I have 6" chimney pipe and the 91 has a 8" flue. Go figure.
Turn to wiser minds than mine on the advisability of this, but adapters to choke that 8" down to a 6", and to switch from oval to round are available.
I took a peek at the Buck site, and they look pretty proud of that stove. It looks like a serious heating tool that could get 'er done. You may be going from being underhorsed to overhorsed on that one, though, so keep asking the right questions. My guess would be that even after you address chimney issues, that might not be enough stove to get you through a tough winter.
Have you checked out the stove reviews on this website? If not, I recommend this fine resource.
I took a peek at the Buck site, and they look pretty proud of that stove. It looks like a serious heating tool that could get 'er done. You may be going from being underhorsed to overhorsed on that one, though, so keep asking the right questions. My guess would be that even after you address chimney issues, that might not be enough stove to get you through a tough winter.
Have you checked out the stove reviews on this website? If not, I recommend this fine resource.
snowleopard said:
Thought about using an adapter to make it work but didnt know if thats ok to do with a cat stove. Any advice on this is greatly appreciated. Thanks
I would not use an adapter 8" to 6" on cat stove. In fact I would not even consider a cat stove. I had two of them ran them both 24/7 - the first was a Dutchwest ran it to death had to have it completely rebuilt in about fours. Traded the Dutchwest in for a larger cat stove, Jotul Firelight 12. I had to replace the combustor in about four years along with other expensive parts. Both of these stoves were good stoves that put out the heat, but it is very easy to overheraft. I almost had to completely closed the draft to keep the stove from overheating. Also with cat stoves, you must use seasoned hardwood. If you don't use seasoned wood. you plug up the cat; Even if you burn good wood you still have the extra maintenance requirement with a cat combustor.
I got rid of the Jotul I now have a Quadrafire 5700 - it a big stove that puts out the heat, don't have watch temp as much.
I got rid of the Jotul I now have a Quadrafire 5700 - it a big stove that puts out the heat, don't have watch temp as much.
That photo of the yellow wood is orange sage - very hard wood, very high BTU - like hickory. Although you have to be very careful when burning it. The hot red coals act like fireworks when you open the stove door - they pop and fiz, shoot sparks and embers out of the door. I burn it all the time.
bigdaa said:
Thanks alot for the help. I have sold the Model 18 and purchased a model 74 but have not installed it yet. (waiting on outside air pededstal)
bigdaa said:
Your right on with the sparks and embers shooting out of the door. But the wood puts out some serious heat, Im trying to get my buddy to sale me all of this wood he has.
VCBurner
Minister of Fire
Hello Parkboy,
Sorry to hear about your stove problem. Also, sorry about jumping in late on this one. I looked at the Buck Stove web site today, the 74 sounds like it'll be perfect for your home. I sort of scanned through the posts on this thread so forgive me if I'm repeating what's already been said. The height of the chimney was the first thing I saw as a problem. My stove requires 16 feet from the top of the stove to the top of the chimney. I don't know about the bucks but most stoves require at least 12 feet for a proper draft. You should not have to run any stove wide open to create sufficient heat.
No matter what the stove you're using, good wood makes all the difference. Hard woods are better at putting out heat. Rotten, punky wood that's been sitting in the woods for years is no good either. Even if it's dry. 20% moisture is the wettest wood you should expect to get some good BTU's out of. Less is better. The Osage Orange wood is one of the best. It is said to have 30 million BTU's per cord, an astonishing amount of heat. The other popular hard woods said to have good heating capacity such as Hickory and Oak, yield around 25 or 24 MBTU's per cord at 20% moisture. Check out this link to give an idea of the BTU's per cord for some species:
http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm
Here's the top nine on the list:
Species MBTU/cord
Osage Orange (Hedge) 30.0
Hop Hornbeam (Ironwood) 26.4
Persimmon, American 25.8
Hickory, Shagbark 25.3
Dogwood, Pacific 24.8
Holly, American 24.8
Birch, Black 24.2
Oak, White 24.2
Madrone, Pacific 23.7
I've seen different lists that show different results, but this is a good idea of how good some species are compared to others.
I think you'll find the answers you seek in the quality of the wood and chimney height. Make sure you read the manual and operate your stove according to recommended temps, read by a stovetop thermometer. You'll have many happy years of heating with this formula.
Sorry to hear about your stove problem. Also, sorry about jumping in late on this one. I looked at the Buck Stove web site today, the 74 sounds like it'll be perfect for your home. I sort of scanned through the posts on this thread so forgive me if I'm repeating what's already been said. The height of the chimney was the first thing I saw as a problem. My stove requires 16 feet from the top of the stove to the top of the chimney. I don't know about the bucks but most stoves require at least 12 feet for a proper draft. You should not have to run any stove wide open to create sufficient heat.
This guy obviously ran his stoves to the ground and is probably doing the same to his new stove, but doesn't know it yet! Unless he changed his burning habits. Get a thermometer for your new stove and use it to see how hot you really have it. Burn it according to the manufacturer's guidelines. Temps higher than 750f. consistentely and for prolonged periods of time will result in warping, early crumbling of firebricks, splitting of seams or cement cracking. Rendering your stove useless and creating a dangerous situation.
No matter what the stove you're using, good wood makes all the difference. Hard woods are better at putting out heat. Rotten, punky wood that's been sitting in the woods for years is no good either. Even if it's dry. 20% moisture is the wettest wood you should expect to get some good BTU's out of. Less is better. The Osage Orange wood is one of the best. It is said to have 30 million BTU's per cord, an astonishing amount of heat. The other popular hard woods said to have good heating capacity such as Hickory and Oak, yield around 25 or 24 MBTU's per cord at 20% moisture. Check out this link to give an idea of the BTU's per cord for some species:
http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm
Here's the top nine on the list:
Species MBTU/cord
Osage Orange (Hedge) 30.0
Hop Hornbeam (Ironwood) 26.4
Persimmon, American 25.8
Hickory, Shagbark 25.3
Dogwood, Pacific 24.8
Holly, American 24.8
Birch, Black 24.2
Oak, White 24.2
Madrone, Pacific 23.7
I've seen different lists that show different results, but this is a good idea of how good some species are compared to others.
I think you'll find the answers you seek in the quality of the wood and chimney height. Make sure you read the manual and operate your stove according to recommended temps, read by a stovetop thermometer. You'll have many happy years of heating with this formula.
Wanted to update you guys on the new stove. I got it installed and tonight was the first night It got cold enough (26F)for me to crank it up. Using the exact same 9ft chimney and sycamore wood I burned all night and the farthest part of my house was 68f when I woke up this morning. I am a happy camper and now I know the model 18 just wasnt even close to being big enough. Cant wait to see what this baby will do with a full load of osage orange but I may have to wait until next winter to see. Thanks again for all your help.
VCBurner
Minister of Fire
Hey Parkboy,
Glad to hear things are working out. I hope you stay warm with the new stove! Congratulations on the new install.
Glad to hear things are working out. I hope you stay warm with the new stove! Congratulations on the new install.
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