Insulated Steel Chimney - Install myself?

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joecool85

Minister of Fire
My wife and I would like to add a small stove like a Jotul 602 into our living room area. We would need to add a chimney. I would like to do a steel insulated chimney situation. From what I understand it needs to be insulated all the way from when it first hits the ceiling to when it goes to the cap at the top of the chimney. To get the proper clearance (2' taller than anything within 10') it would need to be 15' of insulated chimney (this is from where the 1st floor ceiling starts to where the top of the chimney will be). It would be a straight up shot, pass through the 1st floor ceiling, into a small bedroom and then up through the asphalt shingled roof. In the small bedroom it would be in an area that has a really slanty section, so it is only 2' from the floor to the ceiling/roof where this would be.

Now, my stove shop said it would probably be $1200-1500 in labor alone to do it, plus 5 x $170 (per 3ft) for the insulated chimney and then add in the thimbles. All together you're looking at $2,500! Ouch! I can get the insulated chimney elsewhere (albeit a slightly lower grade, but still UL approved etc) for $100 per 3ft and do the install myself for less than $750.

Am I crazy to think I could do this install myself? Professionally I am an IT Manager, but I work on my own cars, snowmobiles and yard equipment as well as do electrical work on my own home and families houses. I've started to dabble in plumbing. I'm very much "to the book" when it comes to codes. Think I could do it, or should I really pay a professional to come and do it?
 
If you're handy and able to plan things you can probably handle the task. I guess it depends. Download an installation manual for whatever brand of chimney you like and read through it. Get a good understanding beforehand of what your in for and make an informed decision. Love the book. Obey the book.

Also, another thing to consider is finding a local certified sweep and seeing if they are willing to install it. It might be worth getting a quote from them too.
 
No problem. Go for it.
I was in the same boat and I thought it went up pretty easy. The part about yours that I would dread is finishing around the part in the bedroom (sheetrock, etc.).
Make sure that your insurance co. is okay with you installing it. Mine said it was okay. I took pics. to show it was "by the book".
Here's pics of my install: http://s388.photobucket.com/albums/oo329/BrianVT16/Chimney/#!cpZZ2QQtppZZ20
 
If you can handle some basic carpentry and do the flashing properly so it does not leak you can handle it. On our first house we decided to put in a stove after getting our first electric bill. The hardest part was moving several wires that were in the ceiling joist space that the pipe was going to run through. The second hardest part was not breaking the roofing shingles in the cold weather.
 
You can absolutely do it. Nobody else will care more about your install than you. Take your time, respect all clearances, you'll be glad you did it.
 
If you find a competent installer that can work with you supplying the pipe, I think you maybe able to cut down that figure to more like $1500-1700 installed for the flue.

A good start to help you understand the installation process would be to download the installation manual from the pipe mfg. Simpson DuraTech is a common brand. Their manual is located here: http://www.fornobravo.com/PDF/duratech.pdf. Your installation would be like figure 3.

For pricing try:
http://www.northlineexpress.com/multiple_items.asp?cc=6SPDuratech
http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=51
 
Thanks for all the help guys! I think my wife and I will wait to do the install this summer when it's nice out and I will do it myself - with many pictures along the way so you guys can help too. I have no problem doing the interior chase and I do electrical anyway (although I don't see that being an issue with this install).

Between now and then I'm gonna be a book worm and read a couple install manuals for different types of pipe and get comfortable with the process.

What do you guys use for a tool to cut up your ceiling and roof? Sawzall? Another question, with 10' of chimney being exposed to the outside temps (and another 10' below it indoors) do I need to worry about building a chase around the outside portion?
 
Sounds like a lot of labor. You'll have the instructions that come with the pipe and a million folks on these forums that will help. If you go slow and ask questions.
 
Appears to you have basic knowledge and attention to detail which will serve you well. My local Menards (similar to Home Depot) carries a line made by Selkirk and the sales booklet went into great detail about all the different types of installations and served as the instructions. You could probably get the same thing off the Selkirk website, heck I think they even run an add on HEARTH. Hardest part I had was sealing the flashing on a metal corrugated barn roof. If you have asphalt shingles that should be much easier. Sawsall will work great. I'm no expert but the chase sounds necessary for support and access plus it might be necessary for draft too. 10' above the roof is quite a bit, sounds like you would need a chase just to lean your ladder onto to get to the cap. You will need to clean once a year if you are burning wood. Read, research web, and ask questions here if you are not sure. Sounds like you can save yourself about $1800 and have a little quality family time.
 
huskers said:
Appears to you have basic knowledge and attention to detail which will serve you well. My local Menards (similar to Home Depot) carries a line made by Selkirk and the sales booklet went into great detail about all the different types of installations and served as the instructions. You could probably get the same thing off the Selkirk website, heck I think they even run an add on HEARTH. Hardest part I had was sealing the flashing on a metal corrugated barn roof. If you have asphalt shingles that should be much easier. Sawsall will work great. I'm no expert but the chase sounds necessary for support and access plus it might be necessary for draft too. 10' above the roof is quite a bit, sounds like you would need a chase just to lean your ladder onto to get to the cap. You will need to clean once a year if you are burning wood. Read, research web, and ask questions here if you are not sure. Sounds like you can save yourself about $1800 and have a little quality family time.

Do you have to clean it from the top down? I've heard of folks cleaning from the bottom up, which would be easier and then I wouldn't have to worry about leaning my latter against anything :)
 
Best of luck in your venture, I put my own up and don't regret saving a couple of thousand dollars. A good reciprocating saw with a demolition blade will be your best friend. Avoid cordless unless you have a couple of good batteries on hand (don't ask me how I know). Pre-planning is essential, you will be better off if you space it so you don't hit a floor joist (but not the end of the world), but you most certainly want to avoid running into a roof truss. Just because a chimney system isn't coming from a fancy wood stove store doesn't mean it is inferior. Selkirk or whoever wouldn't make them if they were.
I really have to ask though- what the heck is a "chase"? Living here in the back woods of Canada (aka the great white north) I have never heard of one.
 
joecool85 said:
Thanks for all the help guys! I think my wife and I will wait to do the install this summer when it's nice out and I will do it myself - with many pictures along the way so you guys can help too. I have no problem doing the interior chase and I do electrical anyway (although I don't see that being an issue with this install).

Between now and then I'm gonna be a book worm and read a couple install manuals for different types of pipe and get comfortable with the process.

What do you guys use for a tool to cut up your ceiling and roof? Sawzall? Another question, with 10' of chimney being exposed to the outside temps (and another 10' below it indoors) do I need to worry about building a chase around the outside portion?
If you have 10' of chimney sticking above the roof line cleaning the chimney from the top could be a problem, you might think about a bottom access clean-out if you can't easily reach the top of the chimney. You don't NEED a chase above the roof, but you will need chimney support brackets. Maybe to sets???
The corner of my room where I originally wanted to put my stove would have also had a lot of chimney sticking above the roof. I really didn't like the idea of having the top of the chimney so hard to access, so I changed the spot where I put my stove so the chimney penatrated the roof closer to the peak where it was easier to access and clean, and no external supports were necessary.
When planing the route of your chimney the key to simplicity is to to try and plan it so you fit it between your floor joists and roof rafters and still get a straight run, if possible.
 
KodiakII said:
I really have to ask though- what the heck is a "chase"? Living here in the back woods of Canada (aka the great white north) I have never heard of one.
a chimney chase is just a framed in housing for a chimney.
Chimney-002+sm.JPG
 
Carbon_Liberator said:
If you have 10' of chimney sticking above the roof line cleaning the chimney from the top could be a problem, you might think about a bottom access clean-out if you can't easily reach the top of the chimney. You don't NEED a chase above the roof, but you will need chimney support brackets. Maybe to sets???

So you can put in a cleanout in the bottom and do it that way? Couldn't I just disconnect my interior stove pipe and clean that separate then run a brush up the chimney from the ceiling box up to the top?

Also, I know I will need chimney braces, from what I understand a single set at the 5' mark will take care of things nicely. Good to know I don't need a chase, that makes me feel better.

If I do this all myself I can do the stove install for $2,500. That includes all connectors, insulted chimney, double wall pipe for the inside (I don't want single due to not having enough clearance), a new Jotul 602, bricks/micore/wood for the hearth, stove tools and a Kidco gate. It would have cost $4,500 if I had the stove shop do everything and I sat and watched.
 
Ok, I just gotta jump in here...

I was all excited about maybe upgrading to a Jotul Oslo, which I would install myself in my dining/kitchen area, sometime in the next year or four.

Then I read the PDF file of the owner's manual, and I came across a statement about how Jotul does not honor warranties if the install is not done by a professional.

Oops. Big-time oops.

So, if I do an install all on my own, no warranty.

How about if I hire a contractor friend of mine who is not a stove professional, but a construction professional? What about then?

How important is it to have a warranty, anyway?

I cooled off in a hurry about Jotul. I think Hearthstone was the same way. At this point, I've looked at so many different stoves I can't remember exactly, but my point is, what if my chosen stove has this caveat?

Oh, and the Englander 30 is starting to look real good. I don't see the stated problem with them...

Guys? Gals?

Nancy
 
Joe Cool,

Didn't mean to hijack your thread, but this could concern you, too...

Nancy
 
The nice thing about installing a chimney yourself is that by the time you are done reading and educating yourself with everything that's involved and applying what you've learned in a practical way with your own installation you end up with a fuller understanding and appreciation of all the clearances and components of your system.

There are a few ways of cleaning your flue from below, removing the interior pipe is one of them. Some people run the brush right up through the stove as well. I like the idea of a bottom clean out as it easier to access and easier to manage all the inevitable creosote and debris that's gona come out. Heck I make enough mess cleaning from the top.
The other thing to think about when bottom cleaning is it can be hard to do a good job cleaning the chimney cap, which is where a lot of people get the worst amount of creosote build up.

In response to Pop's comment, if you install your own chimney or hearth here in Canada, and want to be covered by insurance, you need to have it inspected by a WETT certified inspector. The cost of that is around $200, so you'll still save money installing it yourself plus, as I already mentioned, you gain a lot better understanding of your system. Probably having the WETT inspector pass your install would also cover any stove warranty issues as well.
 
PopCrackleSnap said:
Joe Cool,

Didn't mean to hijack your thread, but this could concern you, too...

Nancy

For me it still makes sense to do it this way. Heck, even if I had a warranty issue I could buy ANOTHER Jotul 602 for less than the difference of having a professional install the first one. That, and the stove shop I'll be going through is really good and would back the stove up anyway.
 
Carbon_Liberator said:
The other thing to think about when bottom cleaning is it can be hard to do a good job cleaning the chimney cap, which is where a lot of people get the worst amount of creosote build up.

Good point about the chimney cap. Any ideas on how to clean that from the bottom?

**edit**
Looks like the Selkirk cap I'm looking at may not be a problem. It appears it doesn't have a screen in it. I would imagine it wouldn't get clogged too often...or ever.

672864_front200.jpg


http://heating-and-cooling.hardware...pipe-caps/chimney-topper-round-6--672864.aspx
 
joecool85 said:
Carbon_Liberator said:
The other thing to think about when bottom cleaning is it can be hard to do a good job cleaning the chimney cap, which is where a lot of people get the worst amount of creosote build up.

Good point about the chimney cap. Any ideas on how to clean that from the bottom?

Hopefully some people who have experience with bottom cleaning will chime in here on that, I always clean from the top and simply remove the cap and clean it with a wire brush.
 
Carbon_Liberator said:
Hopefully some people who have experience with bottom cleaning will chime in here on that, I always clean from the top and simply remove the cap and clean it with a wire brush.

The wife doesn't like me on the roof anyway. Couple that with a 10' tall chimney and I don't see her (or me) being happy lol.
 
i just pay it, it your home your talking about, all the money savings wont matter if it leaks or worse, burns your home down. most installers will give the certifaction paper that it was done correctly and you give that to your insurance company.
 
joecool85 said:
Carbon_Liberator said:
The other thing to think about when bottom cleaning is it can be hard to do a good job cleaning the chimney cap, which is where a lot of people get the worst amount of creosote build up.

Good point about the chimney cap. Any ideas on how to clean that from the bottom?

**edit**
Looks like the Selkirk cap I'm looking at may not be a problem. It appears it doesn't have a screen in it. I would imagine it wouldn't get clogged too often...or ever.

672864_front200.jpg


http://heating-and-cooling.hardware...pipe-caps/chimney-topper-round-6--672864.aspx


The Selkirk does not come with a screen. They sell a screen separately that one can buy and install oneself, if wanted.

Installing a stovepipe/chimney ain't rocket science. You will need some decent carpentry skills for the ceiling/roof cuts and related pipe parts. But I did it ok. Plan to take your time, wait for decent weather, and don't be in a hurry. If you come upon something you don't know how to handle, or are too nervous to do so, stop and ask questions and get advice and keep going. Just don't be in a hurry, do it right. Save the boxing/shipping materials for anything you buy; if you ordered the wrong part, or the part you ordered won't work with your situation once you get into it, you can return it and get the correct part.
 
bucketboy said:
i just pay it, it your home your talking about, all the money savings wont matter if it leaks or worse, burns your home down. most installers will give the certifaction paper that it was done correctly and you give that to your insurance company.

Trust me, if I feel like I can't do it safely, I won't do it. I do electrical work on my own home and friends/family and constantly hear other people say "oh, I would just pay a guy to make sure it is safe" etc etc. But, you know what? My work frequently looks better and goes above and beyond what code requires as compared to many electricians. Why? I know what I'm doing (as I'm sure they do) plus I care and I take my time (both of these professionals have issues with because they need to get this job done to go onto the next).

I'm a very cautious person. The install will be checked out by my local codes enforcer as well as all of you folks here with many pictures.

Now we just need to figure out the financial side. A personal loan from the bank may be in order.
 
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