chemical smell from burning compressed wood bricks???

sirstinky · Feb 26, 2011

Hello,

My first post...

On Christmas Day I installed an Englander 13 NCI wood burning insert and have burned about 75-100 fires this season so far. I have been using, since the first fire, compressed wood chip bricks made by a company called "Liberty Bricks" out of Petersburg VA. These bricks are compressed wood chips / sawdust, but where exactly the material comes from I couldn't say. I've noticed that when I am outside the house there is a "chemical" odor that is coming from the chimney when the fire is going. Don't notice it inside the house, but outside it smells nothing like a "wood" burning fire, but a general chemical smell. It's not real strong, but it's not a pleasant odor or anything you'd expect from burning wood.

Has anyone else experienced something like this when burning similar products in general (compressed material bricks vs actual cord wood)? Any feedback appreciated.

I've written to the company that makes these bricks but have yet to receive a response. I've asked where they get the materials for their fire bricks. I suspect that some of the materials may possibly include laminates (like sawdust from plywood, for example which would have adhesives in it) or maybe even treated wood of some sort.

Thanks!

agartner · Feb 26, 2011

I've been running biobricks (Connecticut manufacturer) all season long. I have not experienced any unusual odor. If you do get a response from liberty, do let us know.

fredarm · Feb 26, 2011

I've burned Bio Bricks, Wood Brick Fuel and am almost through a ton of Eco Bricks. I've never had a chemical smell with any of them. I have seen packages of Liberty Bricks in a local store and they have a very unnatural orangish color--almost shiny. I would be suspect of the material they are made from.

begreen · Feb 26, 2011

Is this the product in question?

http://www.libertybricks.com/index.html

RNLA · Feb 26, 2011

Sometimes the Idaho logs give off a funny smell but if the fire is running hot, not choked down, the is barely anything that even looks like smoke let alone any smell.

soupy1957 · Feb 26, 2011

agartner said:
I've been running biobricks (Connecticut manufacturer) all season long. I have not experienced any unusual odor. If you do get a response from liberty, do let us know.

-Me Too! Agree...........(not that I will be buying any more of these, or nothin.......)

-Soupy1957

sparklow · Feb 26, 2011

I've burned two pallets of BioBricks this season, no strange smells noted. I love em' and will be buying more in the Spring.

sirstinky · Feb 26, 2011

BeGreen said:
Is this the product in question?

http://www.libertybricks.com/index.html

Hi BeGreen,

Thanks for your response and for all of the others as well. Yes, that's the product in the link you found.

I'd done a little reading and research on these before buying them and heard nothing but good things about them. I bought 2 pallets of their product, each pallet containing 2000 lbs of bricks (100 20-brick bundles).

The first pallet I purchased was what they called their "premium" product, which was a very smooth, dense brick (much like that pictured on the Liberty Bricks website) which was probably more sawdust than woodchips. This first pallet of bricks had a faint cedar-aroma, but still produced a slight chemical smell from the chimney... not in the house... just outside... I noticed it first while outside raking leaves. Burned with VERY little smoke at startup, none after the fire was going and the whole pallet of 2000lbs of bricks produced only about a 5 gallon bucket of ash in total!

The second pallet I purchased was older, "non-premium" product (little cheaper). The bricks were the same size but the material from which they were made was more coarse - more wood chips than sawdust. As such, when they were not quite as dense and smooth, but still burned well. They produce a bit more smoke at start up but very little once burning briskly. They produce more ash than the "premium" product by about double (about 2 5 gallon bucket's worth per ton). Again, the only funny odor I notice from these bricks is out of the chimney. Stronger odor than the first pallet of bricks, but roughly the same smell.

I can't think of anything in the stove or flue liner that could be causing this odor. I did the stove install myself and it was very straightforward. There's the stove insert, a very short elbow section of stovepipe connecting the stove to a stainless steel liner, and the cap at the top - and that's it. We have a 1950's brick rancher, which has a 13" square tile lined flue, . The liner runs 15' up this chimney. We've only been in the house 5 years, but it appears the fireplace was very heavily used in the past. The cavity in the chimney just above the firebox, but before the actual tile flue liner starts, had a pretty good buildup of soot / creosote. Not a thick buildup but definitely well used. The original tile liner itself up the chimney further had very little soot / creosote at all.

I'm wondering if the high heat from the stove (hotter than an open fire wuld have ever been) is burning some of that sooty material off that is in the cavity just above the forebox. The only thing there is that the smell from the chimney is coming directly out of the new stainless liner. The sooty material in the original chimney is completely sealed off from the new system, so if it burned and went up the chimney, it would be trapped and could not escape through the new liner. If there was burnoff of this old sooty material, and it could not escape through the new system, it would back up into the house - but there's no odor in the house at all.

So this all leads me back to thinking the smell is coming from only the fire bricks.

ecocavalier02 · Feb 26, 2011

sometimes after long burns lke 24 hors ill open the door and this is with regular wood ill get a nasty smell.

begreen · Feb 26, 2011

Wood burning releases lots of compounds into the air. All the more reason to burn as cleanly as possible.

henkmeuzelaar · Feb 26, 2011

As the OP speculated already, it is always possible that some type of chemical glue or binder might have found its way into the fabrication process, whether on purpose or by accident. Only an expensive, detailed chemical analysis of the bricks and their combustion products can settle that question.

Just exploring some less troublesome explanations: is it possible that the wood brick ashes are exposed to a bit higher temperatures and/or longer burning times than a regular wood fire in your furnace??

One interesting characteristic of nearly all wood ashes is that they will keep losing some mineral matter upon prolonged intense heating. Among the elements typically being lost are potassium, sulfur and boron.

Whereas simple potassium oxides do not have much of a smell and boron is only present in extremely minute amounts, malodorous sulfur oxide emissions pose wellknown problems around many chemical plants and combustors, even in relatively low concentrations. Moreover, they are relatively heavy and sticky. Therefore, the smell tends to accumulate and stick around.

Perhaps, the best thing to try is to remove the ashes religiously after each burn. Secondly, it might perhaps be possible to use a special (or more effective) grate to help separate the ashes from the hot coals.

Success!

Henk

JotulOwner · Feb 26, 2011

Is it possible that the materials used to make the product have traces of a chemical in them?

I read this from the web site posted in this thread..."Most of our fiber comes from pallet re-manufacturers. These pallets were not in good enough condition to be used again, so they were chipped up and then delivered to our warehouse where they are turned into Liberty Bricks."

I also read this: acepalletcorp.com/southnewjerseyheattreated.html

I am not sure if that has anything to do with the smell you are referring to, but it may be worthwhile asking them if they avoid using chemically treated pallets or whether it is even necessary to avoid them.

henkmeuzelaar · Feb 26, 2011

JotulOwner said:
Is it possible that the materials used to make the product have traces of a chemical in them?

I read this from the web site posted in this thread..."Most of our fiber comes from pallet re-manufacturers. These pallets were not in good enough condition to be used again, so they were chipped up and then delivered to our warehouse where they are turned into Liberty Bricks."I also read this: acepalletcorp.com/southnewjerseyheattreated.html

I am not sure if that has anything to do with the smell you are referring to, but it may be worthwhile asking them if they avoid using chemically treated pallets or whether it is even necessary to avoid them.

OMG! That's an extremely important piece of information!!

I have dealt long enough with old container pallets to know that for an industrial scale wood recycling scheme it will be nearly impossible to completely avoid getting chemically contaminated pallets. Even nontreated and unpainted pallets can easily pick up "bad stuff" on all sides.

On the bottom by scraping over container bottoms and being placed in engine oil, etc. On the top by spills from whatever they carried. A damaged pallet often also means damage to the load.

For peace of mind, I think it is better to stay away from that type of wood unless you can slect it yourself by carefully inspecting the pallets on both sides (almost any type of accidental chemical contamination will leave some visible evidence on unstained wood).

Henk

hlozada1 · Mar 2, 2011

I aggreee with using the pallets for blocks. They do contain chemicals. I 've burned bio bricks, liberty bricks , wood brick fuel and envi blocks.
The wood brick fuel was very dusty they flake bad when you handle them. I found the Envi blocks to burn the hottest and last the longest. They are made from left over sawdust from hardwood flooring. the parrent company is Barefoor Flooring. They make Barefoot pellets which is one of the best hardwood pellets on the market.

burleymike · Mar 3, 2011

If I understand correctly the only wood you have been burning is these blocks? I would suggest you go to your local lumber yard and ask to have or buy some dimensional lumber they might have that is too warped/damaged to sell (cull wood.) As long as it is good a dry it will burn nicely. Try a load of this known clean wood and see how it smells while burning.

The reason I suggest that little test is, when we moved into this place I had never used an EPA stove (cat or secondary type.) One of the first things I noticed outside was the lack of smoke and the smell. It is almost a sweet yet acrid smell not the usual smoky pine camp fire smell. I grew up around smoke dragons and camp fires. I never had smelled wood smoke that was nearly 100% combusted, it does have sort of a chemical smell to it.

LEMONADEMAN · Mar 4, 2011

I second that, the Envi Blocks are great! The heat they produce is 2nd to none. I even mix in a scoop of Barefoot Pellets with the Envi Blocks.

Grossepellets · Mar 11, 2011

PyMS said:
JotulOwner said:

Is it possible that the materials used to make the product have traces of a chemical in them?

I read this from the web site posted in this thread..."Most of our fiber comes from pallet re-manufacturers. These pallets were not in good enough condition to be used again, so they were chipped up and then delivered to our warehouse where they are turned into Liberty Bricks."I also read this: acepalletcorp.com/southnewjerseyheattreated.html

I am not sure if that has anything to do with the smell you are referring to, but it may be worthwhile asking them if they avoid using chemically treated pallets or whether it is even necessary to avoid them.

Click to expand...

OMG! That's an extremely important piece of information!!

I have dealt long enough with old container pallets to know that for an industrial scale wood recycling scheme it will be nearly impossible to completely avoid getting chemically contaminated pallets. Even nontreated and unpainted pallets can easily pick up "bad stuff" on all sides.

On the bottom by scraping over container bottoms and being placed in engine oil, etc. On the top by spills from whatever they carried. A damaged pallet often also means damage to the load.

For peace of mind, I think it is better to stay away from that type of wood unless you can slect it yourself by carefully inspecting the pallets on both sides (almost any type of accidental chemical contamination will leave some visible evidence on unstained wood).

Henk

Pyms, I enjoy reading your logic, sounds like you have a chemical engineering back ground or at least have been burning with wood for a very long time. You mention dealing with "old container pallets" "it would be nearly impossible to completely avoid getting chemically contaminated pallets" Unless of course you are collecting the pallets from one company that makes or hauls groceries or highly regulated industry in which very specific pallets are used so that not to contaminate the food supply.
Which may be the case with the Liberty brick product but OMG like you I am speculating!

As all bio brick and bio pellet businesses work very hard to collect only pure wood products and typically do not accept or take on suppliers that cannot guarantee what is in the wood. Some MFGRS buy their wood from Brokers who also must guarantee the supply line. The post also fails to mention the price of the Pallet - considering how much he paid for this outdoor occasional odor which he has to go outside to smell may not be enough to sway him away from it.

If an odor that smells Chemically in nature is coming from the fire - I agree with you - many compounds are being released when burning any wood, the main difference is that dense wood reduces the PM10 by as much as Half - sometimes more. Most Odors are the result of previous years creosote build up. I good test of his wood insert would be to burn firewood or another fuel source like coal.

Grossepellets · Mar 11, 2011

JotulOwner said:
Is it possible that the materials used to make the product have traces of a chemical in them?

I read this from the web site posted in this thread..."Most of our fiber comes from pallet re-manufacturers. These pallets were not in good enough condition to be used again, so they were chipped up and then delivered to our warehouse where they are turned into Liberty Bricks."

I also read this:

I am not sure if that has anything to do with the smell you are referring to, but it may be worthwhile asking them if they avoid using chemically treated pallets or whether it is even necessary to avoid them.

Jotulowner - I am trying to find this "Most of our fiber comes from pallet re-manufacturers. These pallets were not in good enough condition to be used again, so they were chipped up and then delivered to our warehouse where they are turned into Liberty Bricks."

Where does this quote come from?

I followed this other link acepalletcorp.com/southnewjerseyheattreated.html and it appears to be a completely different like no in relation to the other. Can you help me out here? Where is the direct connection to this mfgr of liberty bricks and the ace pallet corp?

henkmeuzelaar · Mar 11, 2011

Grossepellets said:
JotulOwner said:

Is it possible that the materials used to make the product have traces of a chemical in them?

I read this from the web site posted in this thread..."Most of our fiber comes from pallet re-manufacturers. These pallets were not in good enough condition to be used again, so they were chipped up and then delivered to our warehouse where they are turned into Liberty Bricks."

I also read this:

I am not sure if that has anything to do with the smell you are referring to, but it may be worthwhile asking them if they avoid using chemically treated pallets or whether it is even necessary to avoid them.

Click to expand...

Jotulowner - I am trying to find this "Most of our fiber comes from pallet re-manufacturers. These pallets were not in good enough condition to be used again, so they were chipped up and then delivered to our warehouse where they are turned into Liberty Bricks."

Where does this quote come from?

I followed this other link acepalletcorp.com/southnewjerseyheattreated.html and it appears to be a completely different like no in relation to the other. Can you help me out here? Where is the direct connection to this mfgr of liberty bricks and the ace pallet corp?

When Jotulowner wrote that I also realized that I had not seen that quote on the Liberty Brick website pages that I visited.

So I simply Googled "where they are turned into liberty bricks". This immediately produced the correct website page.

As far as a connection to the possible pallet source; I did not research that.

Henk

JotulOwner · Mar 11, 2011

PyMS said:
Grossepellets said:

JotulOwner said:

Is it possible that the materials used to make the product have traces of a chemical in them?

I read this from the web site posted in this thread..."Most of our fiber comes from pallet re-manufacturers. These pallets were not in good enough condition to be used again, so they were chipped up and then delivered to our warehouse where they are turned into Liberty Bricks."

I also read this:

I am not sure if that has anything to do with the smell you are referring to, but it may be worthwhile asking them if they avoid using chemically treated pallets or whether it is even necessary to avoid them.

Click to expand...

Jotulowner - I am trying to find this "Most of our fiber comes from pallet re-manufacturers. These pallets were not in good enough condition to be used again, so they were chipped up and then delivered to our warehouse where they are turned into Liberty Bricks."

Where does this quote come from?

I followed this other link acepalletcorp.com/southnewjerseyheattreated.html and it appears to be a completely different like no in relation to the other. Can you help me out here? Where is the direct connection to this mfgr of liberty bricks and the ace pallet corp?

Click to expand...

When Jotulowner wrote that I also realized that I had not seen that quote on the Liberty Brick website pages that I visited.

So I simply Googled "where they are turned into liberty bricks". This immediately produced the correct website page.

As far as a connection to the possible pallet source; I did not research that.

Henk

Sorry for any confusion. The Liberty site mentions that they use pallets. The other site points out that some pallets may contain chemicals. I should have stated that they were two separate sources of information. I thought that the two links made that clear, but I guess it did not.

Grossepellets · Mar 11, 2011

Yes Jotulowner I guess not - There is no connection thank you
I was wondering where that came from thanks for clearing that up

chemical smell from burning compressed wood bricks???

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