Pin hole leak in cylinder. Now what.

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HeatsTwice

HeatsTwice

Minister of Fire
Jan 7, 2008
592
Santa Rosa, California
Ok, so I got a great deal on a used splitter. 25 ton speedCo, $435. I've put about 50 hours on it (actually my neighbors and I have). Today, while in use I noticed a pin hole leak in the top cap weld of the cylinder. It now pisses hydro fluid once the secondary kicks in.

What now, I can replace it new for about $140 - easy enough - done it befor on other splitter. Or should I have the hole welded shut? This would probably cost the same - I don't have a welder nor know how to even if I had. Any thoughts?

Pictures of the splitter before the leak occured:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sre...1sRgCIjZ1bCg98O9Gg&invite=CNWhtZgK&feat=email
 
If the leak is at the weld, I would spot weld it to close the hole. I had a very small leak where my axle was welded to the tank, which I am guessing was from a pothole. (which we have an abundance of here in NJ) I welded it and it's probably better than new. Find a neighbor with a welder to do it. The job is so small that most shops around here wouldn't even charge to do it.
 
High pressure hydraulic leaks are dangerous as the fluid is under enough pressure to pierce the skin with nasty consequences. Don't mess around trying to have someone with unknown skills weld a critical part. Get a new cylinder. Make sure it is rated for at least 3,000 PSI. In the meantime, don't use the splitter until is repaired.
 
The best method to repair the leak would be to weld it. Another method would be to peen the hole shut. This entails using a small flat head punch to hammer metal surrounding hole into the hole.
 
I agree with Whitepine, that is potentially dangerous, OTOH if you'd be replacing it with the same quality of cylinder, get it welded or even peen it shut, no need to drain it in either case.
 
That pinhole leak is probably the beginning of a stress related failure. From the looks of that splitter, it has been around the block a few times. I have both gas and stick welders. I still wouldn't mess with it if it was mine.
 
I agree with White pine. Hydraulic leaks, ESPECIALY PINHOLES can be extremely dangerous, even fatal. For $140, buy a new cylinder.
 
Dune said:
I agree with White pine. Hydraulic leaks, ESPECIALY PINHOLES can be extremely dangerous, even fatal. For $140, buy a new cylinder.
Click to expand...

Yes I am beginning to agree. I took the cylinder off today and the spot where the leak is, not previously viewable since it pointed directly at the I beam, looks like the begining of a full fledge failure of the metal - the pin hole was just the beginning.

I will take it down to the hydrolic shop soon and get their recomendations.
 
Cylinders are cut apart and rewelded all the time. That said you'll probably not get it done fo 140.00.
If it was just a pin hole I would mark the hole and drain it and then clean it up with brake cleaner or paint thinner 3 or 4 times and then spot weld it.
If its truely a metal failure I would buy new.
 
http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

Thats right, and I built my own boiler, but who did the welding? Not a neighbor with a welder in his garage. At 3000 p.s.i. a pinhole leak in a hydraulic system will cut through flesh like a high powered laser. As to the brake cleaner, please read the article linked before using brake cleaner or other solvents on weldments.

Just the use of the term spotweld in a thread about high pressure hydraulics is enough to disqualify your advice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spot_welding

Seriously folks, Safety First. Professional welders have an ethics code.
 
Dune said:
http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

Thats right, and I built my own boiler, but who did the welding? Not a neighbor with a welder in his garage. At 3000 p.s.i. a pinhole leak in a hydraulic system will cut through flesh like a high powered laser. As to the brake cleaner, please read the article linked before using brake cleaner or other solvents on weldments.

Just the use of the term spotweld in a thread about high pressure hydraulics is enough to disqualify your advice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spot_welding

Seriously folks, Safety First. Professional welders have an ethics code.
Click to expand...

Well since Im not as enlightened as you from the COM, around here we use the term " spot weld " to cover more than just a fender patches. The brake clean thing has to be dry , ok , we dont want anybody blowing themselves up or suffocating themselves " common sense " does still get used up in the COM, right?

While not everyone has a neighbor that can stick 2 soda cans together with a torch, Im glad you got your boiler built for you, and your neighbors are way less qualified than mine as both do a fine job welding.

We do agree on 1 thing, Hydraulic pressure can cut you, it will eat out steel, given enough time, even at pressures as low as 2000 psi.
 
NATE379 said:
http://www.esabna.com/euweb/mig_handbook/592mig11_1.htm

Dune said:
Just the use of the term spotweld in a thread about high pressure hydraulics is enough to disqualify your advice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spot_welding
Click to expand...

I would weld it, but I trust my welding.
Click to expand...

Trust mine also. But if theres metal fatigue as was stated earlier, I think WE can all agree to buy a new cylinder. This could be some china steel and that stuff is hard to cut and/or weld.
 
gandrimp said:
Dune said:
http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

Thats right, and I built my own boiler, but who did the welding? Not a neighbor with a welder in his garage. At 3000 p.s.i. a pinhole leak in a hydraulic system will cut through flesh like a high powered laser. As to the brake cleaner, please read the article linked before using brake cleaner or other solvents on weldments.

Just the use of the term spotweld in a thread about high pressure hydraulics is enough to disqualify your advice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spot_welding

Seriously folks, Safety First. Professional welders have an ethics code.
Click to expand...

Well since Im not as enlightened as you from the COM, around here we use the term " spot weld " to cover more than just a fender patches. The brake clean thing has to be dry , ok , we dont want anybody blowing themselves up or suffocating themselves " common sense " does still get used up in the COM, right?

While not everyone has a neighbor that can stick 2 soda cans together with a torch, Im glad you got your boiler built for you, and your neighbors are way less qualified than mine as both do a fine job welding.

We do agree on 1 thing, Hydraulic pressure can cut you, it will eat out steel, given enough time, even at pressures as low as 2000 psi.
Click to expand...

Sorry, my intention was not to belittle you in any way shape or form. The problem with giving advice on this type of subject, on the internet, is that we don't know the skill level of either the O.P. or his nieghbors, or even for that matter, the best local welding shop in the whole area.

I am a professional welder with 35 years of experience, yet I had a former aprentice of mine weld my boiler, since he is certified for high pressure steam and I am not.


Let me assure you that in 35 years of welding, I have heard "I can weld" or "I am a good welder" from a great many people, yet very few of them were actualy even passable. Please don't take my response personaly, it is not meant that way at all.
 
NATE379 said:
http://www.esabna.com/euweb/mig_handbook/592mig11_1.htm

Dune said:
Just the use of the term spotweld in a thread about high pressure hydraulics is enough to disqualify your advice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spot_welding
Click to expand...

I would weld it, but I trust my welding.
Click to expand...

But then, you wouldn't be asking for advice about how to fix it here, since you know how to do it. That is the difference. If you have to ask how to make a potencialy deadly welding repair, hire a professional.
 
I brought it into a local machine shop. The guys said they'd look it over but it didn't seem like it was going to be tough to fix. Initial estimate: $50. I may get it back tomorrow. Will let you know.
 
Dune said:
gandrimp said:
Dune said:
http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

Thats right, and I built my own boiler, but who did the welding? Not a neighbor with a welder in his garage. At 3000 p.s.i. a pinhole leak in a hydraulic system will cut through flesh like a high powered laser. As to the brake cleaner, please read the article linked before using brake cleaner or other solvents on weldments.

Just the use of the term spotweld in a thread about high pressure hydraulics is enough to disqualify your advice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spot_welding

Seriously folks, Safety First. Professional welders have an ethics code.
Click to expand...

Well since Im not as enlightened as you from the COM, around here we use the term " spot weld " to cover more than just a fender patches. The brake clean thing has to be dry , ok , we dont want anybody blowing themselves up or suffocating themselves " common sense " does still get used up in the COM, right?

While not everyone has a neighbor that can stick 2 soda cans together with a torch, Im glad you got your boiler built for you, and your neighbors are way less qualified than mine as both do a fine job welding.

We do agree on 1 thing, Hydraulic pressure can cut you, it will eat out steel, given enough time, even at pressures as low as 2000 psi.
Click to expand...

Sorry, my intention was not to belittle you in any way shape or form. The problem with giving advice on this type of subject, on the internet, is that we don't know the skill level of either the O.P. or his nieghbors, or even for that matter, the best local welding shop in the whole area.

I am a professional welder with 35 years of experience, yet I had a former aprentice of mine weld my boiler, since he is certified for high pressure steam and I am not.


Let me assure you that in 35 years of welding, I have heard "I can weld" or "I am a good welder" from a great many people, yet very few of them were actualy even passable. Please don't take my response personaly, it is not meant that way at all.
Click to expand...

Hey Dune all is good. I was feeling a little pissy this morning, sorry about that.
That is something I wasnt/didnt/dont think about is the ability of others. I have been welding for nearly 30 years and in high school passed the local gov. test for welding and I walked away from it (what was I thinking).
 
I agree that if there is a potential fracture, I wouldn't bother. But I would still weld the area before buying a new cyclinder if there are no signs of future failure. I'm sure the shop will do the same. And where can you get a new 25T cylinder for $140 anyway?
 
FuzzyOne said:
I agree that if there is a potential fracture, I wouldn't bother. But I would still weld the area before buying a new cyclinder if there are no signs of future failure. I'm sure the shop will do the same. And where can you get a new 25T cylinder for $140 anyway?
Click to expand...

My mistake. On further investigation, they actually cost $320. Sorry.
 
While that baby is "down" and there is welding going on I would look into have some "cradles" welded onto either side of the I-beam to help with the loading/splitting of large rounds. I rented an old MTD last autumn where the guy had done this and I will have this done to my future splitter....was a back saver!
 
HeatsTwice said:
My mistake. On further investigation, they actually cost $320. Sorry.
Click to expand...

I believe that cylinder is made by Fisher Hydraulics for Speeco. Surplus Center lists a couple of Fisher models on their web site, but I don't think they are the exact same thing, should you need a new unit. You might take a look, though, in case one of them would fit. The Surplus Center prices are a bit lower than your quote.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/
 
WhitePine said:
HeatsTwice said:
My mistake. On further investigation, they actually cost $320. Sorry.
Click to expand...

I believe that cylinder is made by Fisher Hydraulics for Speeco. Surplus Center lists a couple of Fisher models on their web site, but I don't think they are the exact same thing, should you need a new unit. You might take a look, though, in case one of them would fit. The Surplus Center prices are a bit lower than your quote.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/
Click to expand...

Great tip/find! Thanks. I think the one I would need would be this:

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-6890&catname;=

Machinist not back to me yet with repair status.
 
HeatsTwice said:
WhitePine said:
HeatsTwice said:
My mistake. On further investigation, they actually cost $320. Sorry.
Click to expand...

I believe that cylinder is made by Fisher Hydraulics for Speeco. Surplus Center lists a couple of Fisher models on their web site, but I don't think they are the exact same thing, should you need a new unit. You might take a look, though, in case one of them would fit. The Surplus Center prices are a bit lower than your quote.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/
Click to expand...

Great tip/find! Thanks. I think the one I would need would be this:

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-6890&catname;=

Machinist not back to me yet with repair status.
Click to expand...

That's not a Fisher cylinder, so I would be extra cautious. Did you notice the tab to the dimensional drawing? If you didn't, pull that up a make sure everything, including ports, match up to your old one.
 
WhitePine said:
HeatsTwice said:
WhitePine said:
HeatsTwice said:
My mistake. On further investigation, they actually cost $320. Sorry.
Click to expand...

I believe that cylinder is made by Fisher Hydraulics for Speeco. Surplus Center lists a couple of Fisher models on their web site, but I don't think they are the exact same thing, should you need a new unit. You might take a look, though, in case one of them would fit. The Surplus Center prices are a bit lower than your quote.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/
Click to expand...

Great tip/find! Thanks. I think the one I would need would be this:

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-6890&catname;=

Machinist not back to me yet with repair status.
Click to expand...

That's not a Fisher cylinder, so I would be extra cautious. Did you notice the tab to the dimensional drawing? If you didn't, pull that up a make sure everything, including ports, match up to your old one.
Click to expand...

True, its not a fisher. But the only fishers I find on that site are not 4" by 24" stroke with forks on cylinder side and female input ports.

If I end up pulling the trigger on a new cylinder, I will for sure execute on your suggestions and make all of the dimensional checks.

Thanks again.
 
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