Basement flooding, major problems

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Exmasonite

Feeling the Heat
Oct 3, 2010
321
Novi, MI
Just venting here...

Came home to 4" of water in entire basement... over 1000 sq ft, partially finished. Mondo rain coupled with ice melt and snow/ice pack direct run off against foundation likely caused it... oh, and the fact that the sump pump isn't working. Came in through walkout stairway (sump is under stairs).

Random list of things that got hit:

1) Pellet stove

2) Treadmill

3) Gun safe (only synthetic stocks touching water but some major oiling will be needed to prevent rust)

4) A lot of camping and cycling gear

5) 4 soggy, scared dogs and a sodden, hypothermic kitty (will make full recovery but years of therapy likely needed, hehe)


Wife left at 7am, no water. I should've been home by 9 but got delayed at work with emergency and got in at 1pm. 4 hrs was the big difference. Just a confluence of bad circumstances... if i could've caught it earlier and realized sump was dead, might have changed EVERYTHING. now looking at five digit insurance claim.

Off to pellet mill to ask about soggy Europa...
 
Some of our friends that have had flooding or earth movement problems in their basements have been surprised to find it wasn't covered by their homeowner's insurance. I think flood insurance is only required by mortgage companies if you're in a FEMA-recognized flood zone.

I had another friend who made two different water damage claims on his insurance only to have difficulty later selling his house because potential buyers couldn't get insurance, It seems the buyer's insurance company was concerned about mold growth resulting from the water issues.

I guess my suggestion is be careful how you handle this.
 
I don't think this circumstance counts as a 'flood'. I have a sump pump failure rider on my homeowners policy to cover this sort of thing if the water gets high enough to destroy anything valuable. I've never gotten more than 4" or destroyed anything too valuable when my sump pump failed. I now try to make sure everything I can get up off the floor is up off the floor this time of year.
 
Yeah... this is our first year in the house (purchased in Aug-sept) so discovering all sorts of problems.

I appreciate the info on weighing whether to file a claim or not but given the (rightful) concern about mold, etc, I think we HAVE to file in order to make sure everything is addressed properly. The basement is 90% carpeted that will need to be replaced and some drywall that got wet which will also likely need to be replaced.

Just a huge, big headache. UGH.
 
I'd be curious if this is covered too. In my experience, with family and friends, this was not covered unless you specifically have flood insurance or something that specifies the sump pump in it.
 
Absent extra cost flood insurance, most homeowners policies exclude water damage from any source, as others have indicated. The first thing to do is read your policy. Unless it is crystal clear that the damage is covered, you probably should be prepared to deal with it on your own, just in case.
 
How to have a day go south in a hurry, yes?

Hopefully, the camping gear at least was built to take some adverse weather. Surprised that your critters didn't climb stairs or find some way to get out of the water. Good that you were there in time to prevent something worse than kitty-trauma. Good luck getting this all sorted out--this is why you have insurance, and hoping for you that it goes very smoothly.

You brought back a memory and a smile.

First time our then-house flooded, my then-husband had gone off to work and I discovered it. I was about seven months pregnant at the time, and waded around moving things to safety. Afterwards, I called him and told him what had happened, and at which store he could find a pump that would get the water out of the basement (we had no sump pump). His response? "What? The basement flooded? No, it didn't."

nice try. . .
 
Thanks for the comments...

Semi-

thanks for the info. we're weighing our options. couple things to consider:

1) if pellet stove is shot, that's $3-4K alone. Treadmill is about $1200

2) If we sell soon, already have a mold issue on the disclosure. there was mold in attic we noted during our inspection. Sellers had it professionally remediated prior to close (per our demands). So, already shot in the foot on that one.

The one option that make come into play is sump failure... there is a sump pump (i've since figured out) that didn't come in. We do have a sump failure rider so that may work. Need to see the limits on that but it should cover.
 
Exmasonite said:
Thanks for the comments...

Semi-

thanks for the info. we're weighing our options. couple things to consider:

1) if pellet stove is shot, that's $3-4K alone. Treadmill is about $1200

2) If we sell soon, already have a mold issue on the disclosure. there was mold in attic we noted during our inspection. Sellers had it professionally remediated prior to close (per our demands). So, already shot in the foot on that one.

The one option that make come into play is sump failure... there is a sump pump (i've since figured out) that didn't come in. We do have a sump failure rider so that may work. Need to see the limits on that but it should cover.
Click to expand...

Whew! I'm glad to hear you have the sump pump rider. It was interesting to read what was considered "flooding" versus "water damage".
 
Semipro said:
Whew! I'm glad to hear you have the sump pump rider. It was interesting to read what was considered "flooding" versus "water damage".
Click to expand...

I suspect that web site relates to California only. States regulate the homeowners insurance industry, and each state is different.

Here's another link to a web site with a decidedly different opinion on what would be covered. It's in PA.

http://www.insurancebuckscounty.com...ot-covered-here’s-what-you-need-to-know…/

Despite what it says, I can tell you that water damage from burst pipes was not covered in Washington State when I lived there, even though the pipes themselves were covered.

To protect yourself, you have to read your policy, along with reading up on the rules in your particular state.
 
It is late for you, but flood sensors saved my professional butt a couple of times.

My mothers water heater gave way two years ago. I was not prepared. Now I have a setup for her that will limit the damage if it happens again. It doesn't cost much to protect most installations.
 
Exmasonite,

On the finished area, do/did you have any insulation on the walls (besides Styrofoam) fiberglass or cellulose?
They WILL wick up moisture and create all sorts of mold behind the Sheetrock.

I'm sorry that you, and yours, have to endure this. Even though I have most of the stuff in the basement on skids/pallets, 4" of water would still get to most of the "junk"/treasures down there.
 
My boss had a house with a sump pump, and what kept happening was the storm would kill the power, the basement would flood, the power would come back on and short out the pump, and the water would keep rising, getting into the furnace and the water heater.

He kept paying plumbers to come out and put in new sump pumps. One day I says, "Hey, how come they don't put in submersible pumps so they don't short out when the power comes on?". He called them out and asked them and they said, "Well you didn't say you wanted that kind." He had it switched out and it's never been a problem since, and it's been nearly 20 years.

So the moral of the story is, if you house is subject to power outages, then make sure you have a submersible sump pump.
 
While you are waiting, remember that time is your enemy. Most insurance companies send out a crew right away to set up heater, dehumidifier, cut holse in walls, rip baseboard off and cut the bottom of sheet rock so air flows in the walls. I would get on it...
 
Get ready for another round of basement flooding in the Northeast, tonight thru tomorrow... UGH!!
 
As the owner of a home with a bone dry basement regradless of conditions I'm at a loss to understand the whole basement flooding issue. How is it possible that a basement can flood in the first place? Is it older houses that have settled into the earth and are now at the center of a big divot in the nearby grade, directing water towards the house instead of away? Nearby rivers cresting? Cracks in the foundations? Missed step during construction? I've had the water table at my house high enough in the spring where the water is oozing out of the ground on all side of my house and it actually burbles up out of the stone wall in front of the house and runs down the driveway (this time of year I get a roughly 6-8" think glacier that moves right across the turnaround in my driveway...have to sand it twice a day or we got right off the edge) and I never get even a hint of moisture in my basement.

My mothers house was built in the 1890's and it never had water in the basement, nor did my first house, a small dutch colonial built in the 30's, so I've honestly never had to deal with a flooded basement, but I hear people talking about them all the time...so what gives, how does it happen and why does it seem that it can't be repaired and future floods prevented? I hear sump pumps as a solution, but to my mind thats just keeping the flood from getting too high, it doesn't actually address the issue.
 
I'm not sure how it happens, either. I mean, my house was built in the 1890's with a stone foundation, and doesn't get much water, at all. Not like the OP stated anyway.

I only end up with issues at this time of year, when the snow melts AND we get heavy rain at the same time. This is when I'll get water coming in from my far basement wall (which is an unfinished work area) and comes into my small "finished" area. When I "finished" that area, I used moisture/mold resistant sheetrock and PT 2x4s. I also left the concrete floor be, (used to have full carpet in that area) deciding to just paint it and throw $16 Home Depot area rugs down there. The water that reaches this area, is more of a PITA than anything else, as it gets the carpets wet, making me have to take them up to the garage to dry out (or, if severe, just replace them). This happens, maybe, twice a year -- right around this time of year.

As I said, I wouldn't even consider my situation getting flooded. Any water I get can be taken care of with a wet/dry vac. Any water I get during the rest of the year, is minimal, and stays in the unfinished work area, which can either be mopped up or wet/dry vac'd. I think simply putting up gutters (which I plan to do before fall) will help with this type of situation.
 
mayhem said:
How is it possible that a basement can flood in the first place?
Click to expand...

There are a number of ways basements can flood.

Building on a flood plain.
Foundation failure due to settling or use of poor material leading to water infiltration through cracks in the foundation.
Building too close to the seasonal high water table.
Changes in surface topography from recent excavations, landscaping, etc, creating low spots for water to pool and seep into poorly protected foundations.
Things like iced over or otherwise occluded gutters and poor foundation drainage can lead to water infiltration.

Some older farmhouses in the northeast had their basements transect a spring to deliver water into the home. I've seen at least one farmhouse around here that literally had a small stream running through the basement which was cut into a notch in the basement floor. Places like that flood easily during especially wet spring time conditions. One wet spring that place had about 3 feet of water in the basement.

There was a case around here involving a builder/developer who had water seeping into the basements of some of the homes he had built. I don't know what the outcome was, but indications were that he had built too close to the seasonal high water table. In other words, those basements didn't get wet every year, just years with a lot of precipitation.
 
How is it possible to have a dry basement? I've got a 40 year old house, I've been there that long, and the sump has never been dry. I think our old hand dug 25' well went dry two or three times over that period, and we were STILL able to flush the toilets by bailing the water from the sump in the basement.
 
tw40x81 said:
How is it possible to have a dry basement? I've got a 40 year old house, I've been there that long, and the sump has never been dry. I think our old hand dug 25' well went dry two or three times over that period, and we were STILL able to flush the toilets by bailing the water from the sump in the basement.
Click to expand...

How far away from the house is the dug well? How does the elevation of the water surface in the well compare to that of the sump? What is the depth below ground of the sump? If the property is very flat, and the differences in elevations between the water level in the well and the sump were very different, that would be hard to explain. On the other hand, it could be that the well is in a position where the water table has sloped down considerably so when it rises you see it in the sump first. Also, the water table may not be a straightforward even depth in that area. Assuming you're not in bedrock, the presence of impermeable materials such as clay lenses in the ground will create a "perched" area of water above the actual water table. Or, perhaps the house is in the path of a highly permeable recharge zone for ground water and the well is not (much to the dismay of the original well diggers).
 
Well, no water from last night's/today's rain. Hope others in the Northeast were able to stay dry, as well.
 
mayhem said:
As the owner of a home with a bone dry basement regradless of conditions I'm at a loss to understand the whole basement flooding issue. How is it possible that a basement can flood in the first place? Is it older houses that have settled into the earth and are now at the center of a big divot in the nearby grade, directing water towards the house instead of away? Nearby rivers cresting? Cracks in the foundations? Missed step during construction? I've had the water table at my house high enough in the spring where the water is oozing out of the ground on all side of my house and it actually burbles up out of the stone wall in front of the house and runs down the driveway (this time of year I get a roughly 6-8" think glacier that moves right across the turnaround in my driveway...have to sand it twice a day or we got right off the edge) and I never get even a hint of moisture in my basement.

My mothers house was built in the 1890's and it never had water in the basement, nor did my first house, a small dutch colonial built in the 30's, so I've honestly never had to deal with a flooded basement, but I hear people talking about them all the time...so what gives, how does it happen and why does it seem that it can't be repaired and future floods prevented? I hear sump pumps as a solution, but to my mind thats just keeping the flood from getting too high, it doesn't actually address the issue.
Click to expand...

Really? Ever see a crack in concrete? Depending on how old the house is, how it was built and where it was built there are a number of ways water gets in. did you know that the ground saturates from the bottom up - water percolates through the soil and if there is enough moisture present, the soil saturates and essentially gets 'filled up'. At that time water will run along the surface of the ground, however, the water in soils will exert some pressure on the concrete walls. If there is any way to get in, water will find a way.
 
I've never had a home with a cracked foundation,don't think I know anyone with one either.

I understand how soil holds water and I know how insidious water can be...just never experienced water in the basement and have trouble understanding how it can happen. I suppose rushed foundations, ground settling or a bad concrete mix would do it. When we poured my footings and foundation I was fortunate enough to have my brother in law doing the work...we excavated down to ledge and hammered some of that out to get the right depth, then set up all the concrete 25% thicker than code and lined with rebar. All outer surfaces were coated with a waterproofing agent as well...some sort of black paint...almost like tar. I guess its all paying off now because we've always got high groundwater, I have an oozing spring that makes mud much of the year about 12 feet from the walkout doors to my basement...never a drop in my basement that didn't come in on my boots.
 
I got about 3 inches in a few hours this morning. I pulled the cap on the drain and it emptied everything out quickly. Now I'm just doing cleanup.


Matt
 
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