Thanks EJL923 - Great info. Can you clean the flue(assuming continous ss liner) from inside the stove? Did you burn 7x24? I understand about the burn times as I have been buring in a cat stove for quite some time, but can you load it up say at 10pm and still have enough life left to get it going say at 6:30am? I realize this will behave much differently than my old stove but it did take me a while to 'control' the burn based on type of wood, moisture, etc... I would also need the heat deflector since my mantle is 46.5 from the hearth. do you use one? Can you burn it open without smoke issues for that once in a while open fireplace feel? Thanks again!
Jotul C 550, FierplaceEX elite 33, Napoleon 1101 Pros and cons?
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EJL923
Minister of Fire
You can clean from inside, you have to remove the baffle plates, like most inserts. However, i tried that once because i didnt have long enough rods from the top and i spent more time cleaning the soot out of my living room. 24/7, yes. You would be able to get it going, but depending on the temp outside your usable heat will be gone. Because inserts, especially flush face, rely on the blower, your usable heat requires a hotter stove. I go to work at 7, home at 4, i can usually get it going with a little work. I would put the usable heat at 6 hrs. i am defining usable heat as heating a large house with undersized stove before the temps start to drop. On a cold January day, i get home probably just as the furance starts to kick on, around 62. Then i crank up the stove and on we go. I dont use a shield, but there are a couple 550 owners on here which have them and they say they dont notice. My mantle is currently mia as it needed work, and i havent put one up since. I will eventually get a new mantle. i was thinking stone, so im not sure if clearances still pertain to that. Probably do.
Thanks EJL. Can you burn this unit with the door open with out a draft/smoke issue? Just curious as I do like the effect of the open fire once in a while, realizing of course that the heat output will suffer.
EJL923
Minister of Fire
As long as your draft is good, yes, although i dont think Jotul ok's the stove in this type of operation. They dont say you cant either. I cant say whether or not you will have smoke. it is a product of your chimney and house pressure. I laugh when people blame smoke on the stove. I have left the door open without issues, but not for extended periods. Honestly, i dont think you would either, the glass is so large you wouldnt mind leaving it closed.
FYI, i have played with the air controls because of my great draft. i opened up the main air control and ground the stop down to allow closing further. (Stove shops idea) The stove also has two zipper air holes, i put a machine screw in one. Zipper air is at the fron bottom. Its non adjustable, and allows two small holes to point incoming air at the bas eof the fire. This has reduced the air entering the stove to slow the burn. Im not sure if its the same with the slight redesign.
Sounds like you have a shorter chimney, and nothing to worry about.
FYI, i have played with the air controls because of my great draft. i opened up the main air control and ground the stop down to allow closing further. (Stove shops idea) The stove also has two zipper air holes, i put a machine screw in one. Zipper air is at the fron bottom. Its non adjustable, and allows two small holes to point incoming air at the bas eof the fire. This has reduced the air entering the stove to slow the burn. Im not sure if its the same with the slight redesign.
Sounds like you have a shorter chimney, and nothing to worry about.
Wrapping up my third season with the 550.
We don't leave the door open - I'm a bit paranoid of heating up the steel box unevenly and cracking the steel box. If your wood is decent and draft okay you shouldn't need to run with the door open unless screwy is going on with the thing.
Cleaning is simply. It takes me about two hours to sweep the chimney from the roof including removing and reinstalling the baffles. It does take some time to get good at reinstalling the baffles - they're awkward to manipulate when reinstalling.
The blower noise issue has been discussed hear extensively, as has the 'auto' feature on the blower. We've gone to an outlet timer and leave the rheostat just south of max in the manual setting - works for us.
I understand the heat shield issue. We had a wooden mantel originally which was wildly out of compliance with the install manual. We replaced it with a simple custom cut piece of bluestone replacement mantel for $125 that made the heat shield/wood mantel problem go away and works aesthetically.
Personally, I'm happy the 550. We're contemplating a renovation that includes adding another chimney - and are looking at working in another Jotul.
We don't leave the door open - I'm a bit paranoid of heating up the steel box unevenly and cracking the steel box. If your wood is decent and draft okay you shouldn't need to run with the door open unless screwy is going on with the thing.
Cleaning is simply. It takes me about two hours to sweep the chimney from the roof including removing and reinstalling the baffles. It does take some time to get good at reinstalling the baffles - they're awkward to manipulate when reinstalling.
The blower noise issue has been discussed hear extensively, as has the 'auto' feature on the blower. We've gone to an outlet timer and leave the rheostat just south of max in the manual setting - works for us.
I understand the heat shield issue. We had a wooden mantel originally which was wildly out of compliance with the install manual. We replaced it with a simple custom cut piece of bluestone replacement mantel for $125 that made the heat shield/wood mantel problem go away and works aesthetically.
Personally, I'm happy the 550. We're contemplating a renovation that includes adding another chimney - and are looking at working in another Jotul.
Thanks Biff. Can you tell me how your over night burns work out? Did you need to make any draft mods as EJL to slow the burn down?
Jaugust124
Feeling the Heat
I'll throw in my 2 cents on overnight burns. During the week, I usually load up the stove about 10:30-10:45 and go to bed about 11:30 after making sure the everything is moving along nicely. I get up around 3:30-4:30 and go downstairs and shut everything down. At this point the stove top temp is about 200*- 250* and still providing some heat. I don't reload, I just want to get back to bed. If I simply stay in bed all night, I find that the stove will cool down too much to be provide usable heat in the last couple hours. However, I know that I could restart around 6:30 with no problems, I choose not to since I am not comfortable leaving a stove unattended when I'm not home.
That being said, please bear a few things in mind: 1. I am a new wood burner, so I am still learning.
2. I don't fill the every nook and cranny of the stove for the overnights. (Did that once and had a real scare)
3. I don"t shut the air all the way down. I leave it open about 1/8-1/4.
So usable heat for overnights probably averages about 5 hours.
That being said, please bear a few things in mind: 1. I am a new wood burner, so I am still learning.
2. I don't fill the every nook and cranny of the stove for the overnights. (Did that once and had a real scare)
3. I don"t shut the air all the way down. I leave it open about 1/8-1/4.
So usable heat for overnights probably averages about 5 hours.
RickM said:
We don't chase overnight burns.
I've been a bit concerned about overtemping the box by packing it when trying to chase an overnight burn. And given the cost and rate of payback, it's more important to us to baby so that we can run it for many years.
We through on a couple of splits (but nowhere nearly pack the box) and let it burn out overnight, leave the furnace set to 50, remove ash reatart the fire in the AM. Typically takes a couple pine cones and handful of twigs we keep in trash barrels in the garage. Works for us.
I haven't played around with altering the air inlets. Seems like a fun thing to play with, but I haven't had the time.
I did start splitting some oak a neighbor had cut out of their yard this weekend - feeding these things never ends...
Thanks all for the great input. At this point still haven't decided and maybe it will be seeing the stoves in person again (with the wife). Seems that both the Lopi elite 33 and the Jotulc550 would be good choices and work for my space. I am going to research some more on the Vermont Castings Montpelier although that was not on the list originally. Thank again.
Rick
Rick
EJL923
Minister of Fire
I have nothing bad (or good for that matter) to say about the montpelier. I looked at it as well, beautifill stove. The main reason i chnaged was more complicated linkages for the air, and the fact that the firebrick on the inside is VC only, meaning if it breaks you cant replace with just any brick from a local store. Just my two cents, im only here to help you make an informed decisions, and what was good for me isnt good for everybody.
KarlP said:I have experience with both the Napolean 1101 and Jotul 550. Both are steel inserts with cast iron faces.
The firebox on the 1101 starts out tiny and is subject to a buildup of coals when you run it for a long time. It heats up quickly and consumes its fuel quickly. I feel like I'm feeding it all the time but it doesn't eat much at each meal. The blower seems fairly weak to me, but it is nearly silent and does blow the air downward which warms up the floor quickly. Its easy to damage the refractory in the top of the insert if you like to jamb the thing full like I do.Those panels aren't very expensive or difficult to replace. This insert is inexpensive and probably the right size to supplement an 1350sqft house. You will probably need to use other heat when the temps drop below zero.
The 550 is built better and looks better. It should for twice the price. The 550 takes a while to come up to temperature, but once it does it throws a LOT of heat for a LONG time. The blower circulates much more air, but the blower makes more noise on high and is aimed upward. You will still get more airflow on medium where it is pretty quiet than you do on the 1101 on high. You do need to heat the whole room before the floor warms up. It's probably the right size to heat a 1350sqft house on those -15 degree nights you get every 10 years. It will take a lot of practice not to hit 80 degrees inside when its 30 degrees out.
I also have experience with both the 1101 and the 550. I started with the 1101 and 2 years later replaced it with the 550 for pretty much the same reasons stated above. I found it to be okay if temps were in the 40° but the coal build up was awful. The placement of the blower was too. It is mounted on the back of the insert and whole insert has to be removed to clean it and it does need to be cleaned! Mine died after 1 season....
I love the 550 and the space I heat with it is probably a bit smaller than your total floor plan. My house has 1800sqft but is not open so front of the house is where the heat is and is where we are 99% of the time. I would suggest going with the 550 even though they have a 450 with a smaller fire box because you can always build a smaller fire when you want less heat. You can also turn down the blowers (Which are mounted right in front and easy to clean!). With a smaller fire box you are stuck..Just my opinion...
The only complaint I have about the 550 is it's almost total lack of an ash lip.
Good Luck
Thanks Perplexed. Why would you want more of an ash lip, just curious as the hearth would funtion as one. Also, I see from your picture that you have the heat deflector shield. can you tell me your mantle height (hearth to mantle bottom) . Can you easily remove the shield and does you mantle really get that hot? If possible PM me with some pictures of your install as I would most likely need to have the shield and would like to see how it looks installed. Thanks.
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