6048 vs gassifier

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leeallen1

New Member
Mar 9, 2011
22
S Maine
i presently have a classic 6048 and im looking at buying a profab 400. I have a large heat demand and presently burn 20-25 cords, how much wood should i expect to save by going with a gasser>>>>>????? also - doe s anyone have n idea why the cb classic uses 400 gallons and the 400 profab unit only uses 115 gallons.
 
i just switched to a profab 200 from a CB 3048...after two weeks use in mild climate I am using between half and two thirds LESS wood. Im finding four or five 4-6 inch dia logs will burn all day in these mild temps, and my CB would have used double that, at least. This is my experience on a very limited time period...

Im not sure of the engineering behind the "small" amount of water storage. It could be that the firebox is smaller and there are a lot of turbulators or pipes running through the water jacket, so there is less room for water.
Im finding that the profab is much more consistent temperature wise..
 
Thanks for the input- It makes sense to me that one would use less would because of the gasification process. The fact you are heating approx. 100 gallons vs. 400 with the classic also should use less wood.
How have you found the maintence so far?
 
Gasser have more precise controls to adjust the burn process, and they need to have inlet water protection so they dont create condensation. I would also think that a conventional boiler vs a gasser, the heat transfer area is alot more specific because the gasification process needs to be elevated up to 2,000F before its essentially cooled by the water. I would also attribute the smaller water volume to more insulation too?
 
Lee,

20 -25 full cords....thats crazy....I am in a colder zone than you, I have a CB 6048, and use 8 to 10 full...100,000 btu/hr heat loss, 4000 sq ft house and shop.

What the heck are you heating to use so much? Something wrong here....

I posted an answer to water volume in your other thread....Gassers are great, but only with proper storage IMO, unless you want to light a lot of fires each day....but for sure gassers are easier on the wood, by a lot....but you may spend more time looking after them then you did with CB IMO...they are higher maintenance, need real dry wood, and need more specific cleaning, more often.

Mike
 
About the only statement I can agree with regarding gassers is that they like dry wood...but then don't most wood burning appliances run/burn better with dry wood? I don't think you can paint all wood burners(regardles of type) with the same brush.

I do agree that something is wrong though, as I know others with outside wood burners and large areas to heat that don't come anywhere near that amount of wood usage!
 
OWB's will burn as much wood as you put in them. That was my experience with them. You need to monitor the weather and only put in as much as you need. Mine would burn as much in oct as feb if i had filled it. The difference was the btu's were going up the stack with most of it unburnt.
leaddog
 
muncybob said:
About the only statement I can agree with regarding gassers is that they like dry wood...but then don't most wood burning appliances run/burn better with dry wood? I don't think you can paint all wood burners(regardles of type) with the same brush.

I do agree that something is wrong though, as I know others with outside wood burners and large areas to heat that don't come anywhere near that amount of wood usage!
Click to expand...

Agreed that you can't paint all with one brush for sure.....and goes with out saying that dry wood is good for all wood burning apps....but there is a bonus for the OWB in that it can and will burn green, punky and other waste wood. We have 40 acres of nothing but hardwood bush, with a little poplar and basswood. It is great to now be able to clean up all this older wood trash, toss it into the CB and get some benefit from it....gives me heat and helps to clean up the deadfall and windfall which otherwise would just rot away....

M
 
leaddog said:
OWB's will burn as much wood as you put in them. That was my experience with them. You need to monitor the weather and only put in as much as you need. Mine would burn as much in oct as feb if i had filled it. The difference was the btu's were going up the stack with most of it unburnt.
leaddog
Click to expand...


I have heard this said more than once and it makes me raise my eyebrow. I have a owb and I can tell you for a FACT that when temps are more mild I use a considerable amount LESS wood. I don't believe all the btu's are going up the stack when it idles because in winter I have seen icecles hanging from the chimney cap. We went away for a long weekend and I turned the house termostat down and filled the boiler up. When we came home 2.5 days later there was still wood /coals in the boiler and the house was still 64.

If you use the same amount of wood no matter if the hx's are calling for it or not I would be more inclined to think you are lossing the heat due to underground pipe heat loss. And 20-25 cord is a lot of wood, how much are you heating? I will use 9 cord this year heating 3000 sq ft house and 600 sq ft garage in Michigan.
 
Thanks for the response. I am heating an old 5000 sq ft. farm house which is a 3 family as well as my 1000 ft garage and the domestic HW for 3 families. You are probably right - I am overfilling it on warmer days, but during the cold Maine winter nights, it needs a full load to keep up . My heat loss from my return line at the wood boiler drops approx 10 degrees - say the temp is 185 at boiler the return water is never more than a 10 degree loss which I don't think is too bad since my boiler is 250 ft. from my house and I have a large demand for heat. The underground pex is 1 1/4 triple wrapped inside 4" black drain pipe. I know this is not the high end material, but I think it is performing ok. I am hoping a gassifier helps eliminate the amount of wood i am burning. I do love my 6048 - good stove that is low maintainence.
 
good question - no
I am losing 10 degrees on the run of 500 ft. after it goes thru the heat exchanger in my basement and eventually returns to the wood boiler. I don't believe the loss is going into the ground but lost in the exchanger .
 
When the house is not calling for heat? Sorry for all the questions but 10 degrees to the ground is HUGE, but a 10 degree delta t from a hx seems low.
 
pulse said:
leaddog said:
OWB's will burn as much wood as you put in them. That was my experience with them. You need to monitor the weather and only put in as much as you need. Mine would burn as much in oct as feb if i had filled it. The difference was the btu's were going up the stack with most of it unburnt.
leaddog
Click to expand...


I have heard this said more than once and it makes me raise my eyebrow. I have a owb and I can tell you for a FACT that when temps are more mild I use a considerable amount LESS wood. I don't believe all the btu's are going up the stack when it idles because in winter I have seen icecles hanging from the chimney cap. We went away for a long weekend and I turned the house termostat down and filled the boiler up. When we came home 2.5 days later there was still wood /coals in the boiler and the house was still 64.

If you use the same amount of wood no matter if the hx's are calling for it or not I would be more inclined to think you are lossing the heat due to underground pipe heat loss. And 20-25 cord is a lot of wood, how much are you heating? I will use 9 cord this year heating 3000 sq ft house and 600 sq ft garage in Michigan.
Click to expand...

We have the same experience with ours...we never fill it unless we are going away...a few splits, like 3 or 4...and then 5 or 6 rounds 10" dia. x 36"...thats it...the firebox on the CB 6048 is massive...bigger than my first apt....if you fill this thing it should burn for days...but its not efficient to do so...2 fires a day in the depth of winter.....

But Lee you have other issues here....you should not have a delta of 10 degrees between hot supply from boiler and return from house/HX....it should be closer to 20 to 30 degrees....this tells you that the system is sucking the heat out...good...

You should check the delta from the boiler temp gauge and the temp where it enters the HX...that will tell you you have a high heat loss in the pipe from boiler to house...250 feet is a long way to run....even a 1 or 2 degree loss here translates to a fair bit of wood.

Maybe your HX arent performing or are dirty....but dont know the specifics of your set up to comment much...but you definitely have some other issues. You may want to check the delta on the HX too...

The CB 6048 should have plenty of capacity to heat what you have if set up right, even poorly insulated....my heat loss is over 100k/hr + and my CB has no problem whatsoever keeping up....with small loads of wood.


M
 
6,000 btu per lb

Say 40lbs per hour

500lbs per day

Does that sound about right?
 
The CB 6048 should have plenty of capacity to heat what you have if set up right, even poorly insulated....my heat loss is over 100k/hr + and my CB has no problem whatsoever keeping up....with small loads of wood.


M[/quote]

I don't want to tell you what you have, but are you sure about that figure? Do you mean you have a hx "rated" for 100k btu's/hr? How is it possible to have a heat loss of 100k/hr? Are you heating a greenhouse, or uninsulated pole barn? If you really are at 100k/hr I would think YOU would be going through 20-25 cord.
 
Pulse,

The design heat loss on my energy audit, certified is 1.83 BTU/hr/ft3...my house is 3250 sq ft,
10 foot ceilings main floor, 15 foot ceilings second floor.For my zone the design heat loss temp is -13 degrees F, this equates to 94,000 btu/hr for the volume. My shop is close to 900 sq ft so add another few thousand btu/hr, 12 foot ceilings....then throw in a few for my DHW....add windy cold north winds, I have a high percentage of wall area in glazing, floor to ceiling windows etc...(views to the lake). House is very well insulated, to R2000 builidng stds. with good vapor barrier etc...I am exposed on lakefront...

So, pretty easy to get to 100k/hr....in fact on some days would be more....

What you dont know is that I have radiant in floor everywhere...so the low temps needed for high output of the radiant serves me very well...as does the large volume capacity of the 6048.

I do not go thru 20 -25 cord...8 to 10 this year...prolly closer to 10 as we still have a good 6 to 8 weeks to go...

My Hx by the way is rated up to 150,000 btu/hr

My wife also has bad arthritis...we keep the temp set at 25 degrees C downstairs and 22 degrees upstairs, (sleeping area), thats around 75 degrees F....house is always very toasty

There is something wrong with the OP setup for sure

Mike
 
Como said:
6,000 btu per lb

Say 40lbs per hour

500lbs per day

Does that sound about right?
Click to expand...

Nice, about half that seems right....maybe even a little less....in the peak part of the season...how many cord does that work out to como...full cord?

M
 
Kawliga said:
Pulse,

The design heat loss on my energy audit, certified is 1.83 BTU/hr/ft3...my house is 3250 sq ft,
10 foot ceilings main floor, 15 foot ceilings second floor.For my zone the design heat loss temp is -13 degrees F, this equates to 94,000 btu/hr for the volume. My shop is close to 900 sq ft so add another few thousand btu/hr, 12 foot ceilings....then throw in a few for my DHW....add windy cold north winds, I have a high percentage of wall area in glazing, floor to ceiling windows etc...(views to the lake). House is very well insulated, to R2000 builidng stds. with good vapor barrier etc...I am exposed on lakefront...

So, pretty easy to get to 100k/hr....in fact on some days would be more....

What you dont know is that I have radiant in floor everywhere...so the low temps needed for high output of the radiant serves me very well...as does the large volume capacity of the 6048.

I do not go thru 20 -25 cord...8 to 10 this year...prolly closer to 10 as we still have a good 6 to 8 weeks to go...

My Hx by the way is rated up to 150,000 btu/hr


My wife also has bad arthritis...we keep the temp set at 25 degrees C downstairs and 22 degrees upstairs, (sleeping area), thats around 75 degrees F....house is always very toasty

There is something wrong with the OP setup for sure

Mike
Click to expand...


Sounds like a pretty sweet house! I think that clears it up for me also. If I understand a energy audit correctly, the number generated is the required btu/hr for the coldest day of the season, correct? If that is the case I can surely understand the 100k/hr.
 
pulse said:
Kawliga said:
Pulse,

The design heat loss on my energy audit, certified is 1.83 BTU/hr/ft3...my house is 3250 sq ft,
10 foot ceilings main floor, 15 foot ceilings second floor.For my zone the design heat loss temp is -13 degrees F, this equates to 94,000 btu/hr for the volume. My shop is close to 900 sq ft so add another few thousand btu/hr, 12 foot ceilings....then throw in a few for my DHW....add windy cold north winds, I have a high percentage of wall area in glazing, floor to ceiling windows etc...(views to the lake). House is very well insulated, to R2000 builidng stds. with good vapor barrier etc...I am exposed on lakefront...

So, pretty easy to get to 100k/hr....in fact on some days would be more....

What you dont know is that I have radiant in floor everywhere...so the low temps needed for high output of the radiant serves me very well...as does the large volume capacity of the 6048.

I do not go thru 20 -25 cord...8 to 10 this year...prolly closer to 10 as we still have a good 6 to 8 weeks to go...

My Hx by the way is rated up to 150,000 btu/hr


My wife also has bad arthritis...we keep the temp set at 25 degrees C downstairs and 22 degrees upstairs, (sleeping area), thats around 75 degrees F....house is always very toasty

There is something wrong with the OP setup for sure

Mike
Click to expand...


Sounds like a pretty sweet house! I think that clears it up for me also. If I understand a energy audit correctly, the number generated is the required btu/hr for the coldest day of the season, correct? If that is the case I can surely understand the 100k/hr.
Click to expand...

It is a sweet home...thanks! I can't speak to the design temp being the coldest day of the season...it certainly isnt....I beleive it is some sort of average. We sometimes can get 2 or 3 weeks steady of - 30 degrees...but thankfully not all the time. The energy audit shows the heat loss on monthly basis thru the year. It told me I would need about 1200 gallons of oil a year...yah right...Last time I put oil in my tank was 2 years ago...I aint paying these boys nuthin...!

Oh and on the audit, my place only got a 71 out of 100...so I missed getting a triple AAA rating by 4 points...need 75/100....

Lee, tell us more about your system...sorry to hijack your post....

Mike
 
Kawliga said:
Como said:
6,000 btu per lb

Say 40lbs per hour

500lbs per day

Does that sound about right?
Click to expand...

Nice, about half that seems right....maybe even a little less....in the peak part of the season...how many cord does that work out to como...full cord?

M
Click to expand...

500lbs a day is about 3 cords per month.

But that would assume peak demand would be constant for that month, hopefully there would be better days.
 
Kawliga said:
pulse said:
Kawliga said:
Pulse,

The design heat loss on my energy audit, certified is 1.83 BTU/hr/ft3...my house is 3250 sq ft,
10 foot ceilings main floor, 15 foot ceilings second floor.For my zone the design heat loss temp is -13 degrees F, this equates to 94,000 btu/hr for the volume. My shop is close to 900 sq ft so add another few thousand btu/hr, 12 foot ceilings....then throw in a few for my DHW....add windy cold north winds, I have a high percentage of wall area in glazing, floor to ceiling windows etc...(views to the lake). House is very well insulated, to R2000 builidng stds. with good vapor barrier etc...I am exposed on lakefront...

So, pretty easy to get to 100k/hr....in fact on some days would be more....

What you dont know is that I have radiant in floor everywhere...so the low temps needed for high output of the radiant serves me very well...as does the large volume capacity of the 6048.

I do not go thru 20 -25 cord...8 to 10 this year...prolly closer to 10 as we still have a good 6 to 8 weeks to go...

My Hx by the way is rated up to 150,000 btu/hr


My wife also has bad arthritis...we keep the temp set at 25 degrees C downstairs and 22 degrees upstairs, (sleeping area), thats around 75 degrees F....house is always very toasty

There is something wrong with the OP setup for sure

Mike
Click to expand...


Sounds like a pretty sweet house! I think that clears it up for me also. If I understand a energy audit correctly, the number generated is the required btu/hr for the coldest day of the season, correct? If that is the case I can surely understand the 100k/hr.
Click to expand...

It is a sweet home...thanks! I can't speak to the design temp being the coldest day of the season...it certainly isnt....I beleive it is some sort of average. We sometimes can get 2 or 3 weeks steady of - 30 degrees...but thankfully not all the time. The energy audit shows the heat loss on monthly basis thru the year. It told me I would need about 1200 gallons of oil a year...yah right...Last time I put oil in my tank was 2 years ago...I aint paying these boys nuthin...!

Oh and on the audit, my place only got a 71 out of 100...so I missed getting a triple AAA rating by 4 points...need 75/100....

Lee, tell us more about your system...sorry to hijack your post....

Mike
Click to expand...

OK one last post and then we can get back on track. 1200gals of fuel oil is 168,000,000 btu's (140,000 btu/gal of fuel oil). Figure 80% effecient fuel oil furnace is 134,400,000 divided by 180 heating days is 746,666 btu's/day divided by 24 is 31,111 btu's/hr. Which is almost exactly the same as my house figures. This makes me feel better since we are burning almost exactly the same amount of wood. It was really bothering me that we are using the same amount of wood only your heating requirements sounded like it was x3 of mine.

Again sorry to the OP lets get back on track. Is it possible to isolate the ground loop by bypassing the hx's and seeing how much wood is used in a day by only cirulating the water to the house and back to the boiler without it passing thru the hx's?
 
9 cords is say 225mbtus.

Sounds that your oil estimated use is too high.

Do not know what sort of OWB you have but 40% would be 90mbtus which seems more realistic.
 
As far as the OP only having a 10 degree drop, are you checking the temps "at" the boiler? At the very begining of your run to the very end? If this is true, I have always had a theory that in "most" underground piping, there is heat "exchange" between the tubes. You loose heat in the supply to the return and gain in the return from the supply. If my theory is correct, then the longer the run, the more heat exchange happens. What I would suggest to do to get a "real" temp drop across the HX's is to have the temp sensor where the underground pipe enters your house (supply) and another right before it exits (return), this is where I have mine. This should give you a "true" reading on your HX's. Then, if you still have your temp sensors at the boiler, which I do not at this time, you will have all the readings you need to determine any/where your heat loss is.
As I said, just my theory.
 
That's a good idea - I have a Ryobi red dot heat sensor that is not on the money accurate but it would at least give me an approximation. I will scope it when the house is calling for heat and when it is not.
 
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