The Perennial Newbie Request

I can't address all your concerns, but I can give some general advice.

Make sure your wood is seasoned . . . sounds like you've got some wood built up . . . this is good . . . but most folks here would say your wood truly starts to season well once it is bucked up, split and stacked, not when it falls over or is cut up into logs . . . and then for most wood you're looking at a year to two years to season depending on the species.

Winds: Some folks report that high winds make a big difference in the way their stove works . . . others say they might notice a little bit of a difference . . . others say there is no difference. When we have a strong wind blow through I may see the fire act a little wonky, but no smoke spillage, the fire continues to burn away, etc. . . . just on a particularly strong gust I might see it move a bit.

Size of stove: Best advice I was given and have given in turn is to figure out your spacing needs, see what stoves meet that spacing need . . . and then go one size larger. You've mentioned several brands that are well liked here.

Chimney: I honestly believe that in most cases the best way to go with your chimney is straight up if possible . . . but that said, don't let folks deter you from an exterior chimney. I was a bit hesitant to go out and up based on comments about heat loss, cooler chimneys producing more creosote and problems with draft . . . but I had to go out due to the home's construction . . . and honestly I'm quite happy. I have had no issues with creosote (it's amazing what burning seasoned wood and burning at the proper temps will do) or draft (except for the usual problem of many when temps outside are close to the inside temps early in the Fall and late in the Spring) . . . if there is some heat loss I don't notice it since the house is nice and toasty warm . . . and my own fear of the chimney looking ugly as it ran up the side of my house turned out to be a non-issue since you can only see it in one small spot from the road . . . the advantage of the outside chimney is that with the T in place I can easily and quickly inspect and clean my chimney from the ground in a 10-15 minute job.

Welcome, bug.

Yes, there are weirdnesses and worries when you get started--lots of questions, no obvious answers--but it's so worth it. Even if you had prior experience with wood heat, each application is different, so you'd be going through similar quandaries. I put myself (and everyone I knew that would listen) through all of the pros and cons of every possible permutation (tearing out a bathtub above and going through the skylight in the bathroom is one of the more wack-a-doo concepts I considered). Turned out that the spot I finally thought was perfect was not going to work, and I had to rethink the installation on the spot. But having put myself through this process so intensely meant that I was able to make that 90-degree last-minute swerve because the appropriate neural pathways were well-trod at that point.

I have a Heritage, love it, but did not go the porcelain route. My cast iron is holding up nicely so far. Is there any possibility of changing the location of the stove so that it backs up to the under-the-loft area of the house? This will help a lot with keeping some of the heat low, and you can keep the window unobstructed. Otherwise you are going to be dependent upon the fans to keep the heat out of the cathedral ceiling area, and down low where it can be of use--a problem when the power is out for extended periods.

Yes, you can go through the soffit if that's what you want to do. A straight shot is going to be your best bet for a draft, but from what you've described, sufficient draft will probably not be a problem for you.

As far as the roof is concerned, I saw one where someone had built a ladder-like contraption that rested on the roof, and then hinged and followed the roofline down on the opposite side. I've thought about getting a folding ladder that would do the same thing, but not be a permanent installation--it would help distribute weight on the roof, and make it a bit safer to be up there.

A stack damper, although you may see general advice against it for EPA stoves, has great merit in some specific applications. Yours will almost certainly be one of those. Different chimney caps are brilliantly designed for different applications. Having the right setup will go a long way in ameliorating the wind issues.

Thanks for the pix--that helps a lot. Based on the relationship of the roofline to the window, I'd be looking hard at putting the stove in the location between the soon-to-be-history fireplace and the window. That would put your stack to the lee side of the house, just off the ridge, instead of right up the ridgeline, or giving you a jog in the stovepipe. Actually, I'm just making an assumption about the lee side based on your hills--I could be wrong there. But if that's the case, it would make for a more efficient setup for a lot of reasons, and it would blend in more attractively with the roofline as well. If I were in a `oh, it's just money, anyway' mood, I'd probably ask wiser minds than mine if it were possible to run copper jacketing held by matching brads up the stovepipe inside, just to give it that visual zing! thing.

I agree that the glazed finish is a handsome touch on the stove--and btw, it's enamel, not porcelain, and I think that as much time as we spend with our stoves, they should please us in all ways. I haven't heard complaints about the finishes not standing up, and obviously you are a family that takes care of your possessions. You might try starting a thread here asking about that issue. The only time I've seen it come up was with one that was damaged in shipping being sold at a discount, I think, and there was a discussion about how to repair it.

Another suggestion if you're going to do a middle-of-the-room installation is to consider rounding off or angling off the corners of the hearth. You can reduce the footprint to a surprising degree in so doing. Wish I had, so passing that along for the benefit of those in the dreaming-and-planning stages.

BeGreen said:

For a Victorian looking stove to run in a milder climate, I'd strongly consider the Woodstock Fireview. It should work well for you. This will need a new flue system. Go straight up in the house envelope if possible. Top it off with a special cap designed for high wind areas.

http://www.woodstove.com/index.php/fireview
http://www.ventingpipe.com/high-wind-chimney-caps/c1911

Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum FutureFirebug. You have a beautiful home in a beautiful location.

Be sure you read BeGreen's post as he has made an excellent recommendation.


Sounds like you have some excellent firewood. Jake gave some good advice on the wood. I might add here though that you mentioned a seasoning shed and that really is a no-no! Wood needs to be seasoned outdoors, not in a shed. Once it is seasoned, then it is great to put it into the shed. The reason for this is that for wood to season properly, it needs air movement which is pretty hard to get in a shed. So it is best to stack it out where some of that high wind will hit it. Make sure you put something under the wood (2-4" or more) so the air also will get under the wood and the wood won't come into contact with the ground.

On the stove installation, yes, it is best to go straight up if possible. However, it is not totally necessary. When we put in our Fireview we also put up a new chimney at the same time. We went through the wall (1/2" rise per foot of horizontal pipe) and into a tee and then stainless steel all the way up. It was a bit costly because of all the insulated pipe going up but actually very little more than it would have been going straight up. I think it was only about $200 extra cost so we did not complain. We also have never had a problem with the chimney and did not build a chase around the chimney as some say you need to.

One more bit of information on the Fireview stove. Before we bought this stove we had a big Ashley. After installing the Fireview we have used only about half the amount of wood we used to use and stay a whole lot warmer. Not only that, but we rarely clean the chimney because there is no creosote. We did clean it after 2 full winters burning and got around a cup full of soot and no creosote. Also, the Fireview is our sole source of heat; we have no furnace.

Good luck to you.

FutureFirebug said:

BeGreen, thank you for your reply. I am looking and not easily finding the warranty for the Fireview. They have lovely style. I am still lurking here and debating the merits of cat vs non-cat....

Click to expand...

Sorry I missed this. You will find the best warranty in the market from Woodstock. Use the stove for 6 months and if it is not to your liking, send it back for a full refund. I have never found any other company to give this sort of guarantee. In addition to that, the stories that come on this forum about how Woodstock backs their stove, well after any reasonable warranty or guarantee has run out is just amazing. In short, they practically bend over backwards to make their customers happy.

I was very fortunate to actually visit their factory last fall and we got to go through the entire factory and offices. We met a lot of excellent and friendly folks....and heard many other stories while there. This is an old time type company whose aim is to please and will do what it takes or take the stove back.

No, I am not on their payroll. lol Just one very satisfied customer. If you look at my signature line you'll see we are not exactly new wood burners and have had several different stoves. We still were a little gun shy about the Fireview but bought anyway. That has turned out to be a blessing indeed.

Here's my submission to the "Everyone's got an Opinion" department

Have you thought about putting the stove in the corner (in the picture where the chest is placed diagonally at the moment)? You could get a straight up chimney there, and corners are common locations used for wood stoves.

Two votes for the corner. I have a corner installation straight out the back of the stove with a tee and up two stories. Cleaning from the bottom is a cinch. The 2 foot horiz run from the stove to the tee is always clean. Pretty much just run the shop vac from the tee into the horiz pipe and wiggle it around. Disconnected the stove after two years burning seasoned oak and maple and it was clean. All I ever got out of the pipe was a little white ash. I would consider the corner install than you won't have the pipe in front of that awesome window or deal with bends. Just my opinion.

snowleopard said:

I'd be looking hard at putting the stove in the location between the soon-to-be-history fireplace and the window. That would put your stack to the lee side of the house, just off the ridge

Click to expand...

I don't have any experience with siting (hard to argue against using a pre-existing fireplace flue) but I like snowleopard's approach. Nothing wrong with a little asymmetry, and I think you can paint the pipe. You can go either right or left of the present heater location, but I'm not sure how the chimney would be affected by siting it on the windward vs. leeward side of the peak (I'm assuming the octagon faces North, and the wind is usually from the West/Southwest.)
Welcome, and keep us updated on Future developments!

FutureFirebug said:

Running the right size stove, the right fuel, the right way will be so important to keeping all that chimney safe. I am so grateful to have found such a helpful community here!

Click to expand...

Welcome, FF. Always nice to see a new member of Da Sistahood

What's the layout of the house? A floor plan might really help. Rough drawn is fine. I ask because I want to know what is the room at the "front" (to the right of Old Glory) of the house. Is that the right side of the second pic?

Beautiful home and location.. spent some time in NW AR hunting the elusive quartz crystal in the Mt. Ida area. Found it to be very similar to the mountains and hills here in NY.

Anyway, two things will damage an enamel finish.. abuse during moving/shipping and over-firing, or running the stove hotter than it was intended to be. So, if you can get it home in one piece and treat it properly you needn't worry.

I had planned a corner location, and my last minute change was with an up-against-the-wall-in-the-middle location. THought I was going to be very unhappy with that spot, but as it turns out, I love it. Easier for us all to congregate around it, and easier to access side door. YMMV.

I am jumping to conclusions here, which is my favorite form of exercise. I thought that the house was sited with the long axis to the south, which would put the window to the west. (It is hard to tell otherwise, because your sun is shining down from overhead! which I can't tell you how silly that looks, but a topic for another thread, that. I assumed south would be the lee because of the way its sited on the hill, that the wind would come over the ridge and pull the smoke down, away from the house, if the stovepipe was on the downwind side, and keep it out of any vortices created by the ridge. Probably just a minor issue, that--but I've noticed that the longer I hang out on the forums, the more I think in air currents.

Also, the stovepipe sticking up over the ridgeline from the other side would be a nice balancing touch, but installed on the (presumed) north, it would visually break those long sweeping intersecting planes of roofs (rooves?)

Time to pull out the photoshop and start fiddling around. If you like the look of the stovepipe on the near side, the trade-off in ease and safety of installing and servicing the stack might off-set any advantage gained in having the stovepipe to the presumed lee side.

I would consider the Fireview to be a better fit w/Victorian, and consider the Hearthstone line more of an Edwardian look. That's just me, though. They're all beautiful stoves, and look good in a surprising variety of settings.

If the by-the-stairs location is appealing in all other aspects, how hard would it be to relocate the furnace air intake? And would that necessarily be a problem, if you're not running the furnace when you're heating with wood, or if you want to use the fan-only function of the furnace to redistribute heat in the house?

Another consideration is the wood-in/ash-out traffic pattern. It's nice to have a place to have wood warm up and dry out for a few days before use, even if it's seasoned and stored under shelter. This may be a non-issue in your climate; for me, if I'm bringing in wood from -30F temps, the wood needs a few days to acclimate before I want to throw it in the stove. You might be able to just keep it under the deck to the (presumed) south for a few days to have it ready to burn. Think about access, flooring between door and stove, how you're going to manage ash removal and cooling, and so on.

My serendiptitious location meant that wood is carried in through and warmed/dried in a tile-floored sunroom, and ashes go out the same way. I remember somone posting about having to do that over white carpet, and I knew what that would be looking like in my house. It would be not good.


And yes! to the painted stovepipe. Woodstock sells painted stovepipe, many color options.
Many details to consider. Enjoy the process!

ETA: Thought about your question about hating retrofit, and decided my answer is, no, I don't. While it can be a pain in the execution, to not have retrofit would be worse, because it would presume that everything is static, fixed, permanent, and incapable of being improved upon, and that would be much, much worse.

I'm heating a two story, 25x40, 8' ceiling house in Fairbanks, AK with a Heritage. No regrets on size. No complaints on quality. Love my stove, glad I made this choice. The big window, and having a local dealer/installer were the tipping points for me in making my decison. I've seen people decide to switch from Mansfields to other stoves because they couldn't get the quick heat that they wanted. This is not a problem with the Heritage. Temps here will hit -40, rarely at my house, but hovered at -30 for around three weeks this winter. I was burning poplar. I think in a mild climate this would be a wholly adequate stove. Are you going to heat exclusively with wood? You mentioned a furnace. Even baking and cooking release a surprising amount of heat into a house, so take those factors into account in choosing. How much heat do you get from the sun during the day? Is your house set up to take advantage of that with extra thermal mass?

You can't beat the Woodstone way of doing business. They'll help you find a shipper to get it to your door, and if you don't like it, they even cover return shipping.

If you're concerned about the quality of workmanship in an installation, what about doing it yourselves? You mentioned having a husband, so if there are a couple of you to take it on--well, you wouldn't be the first. It's not rocket science, and you'd find a wealth of information/inspiration/education here and elsewhere on the web. You don't have winter breathing down your shoulder. And once done, you'd know your system inside and out, and be better prepared to deal with anything that might come up. It looks like you don't have an attic, so that would simplify things greatly.

Woodstone will sell you a package that will have everything you need right down to the last screw if you go that route. You tell them about your house, and they will help you design the installation, tell you what to look for, what you need. They're top-notch to do business with. Almost bought a stove from them, and can't say enough good about them as a business.

If you want to go the Hearthstone route, and can't find a local dealer that you want to do business with, you could check out some of the hearth.com sponsors. There's bound to be someone who could help you out with a package.

FutureFirebug said:

This is one of the few instances where I find living this far out a disadvantage. I too am reading all the raves for Woodstock stoves here (call me cautious, but ... ). Finding an installer for a stove that would be bought without me getting eyes and hands on may be a bit of a problem. I am a hard sell and prefer to get up close and personal with such a major purchase. I am not wildly impressed with Hearthstone quality, but I do appreciate the concept of radiant heat for my application and do love the style. Perhaps I'll get lucky and there will be a Woodstock in a home somewhere within driving distance. Will check on that. Finding a great installer willing to come out here and do a fab iinstall on such a roof without the incentive of a stove sale commission is a whole 'nuther problem. This is the land of no building codes, and lots of tradespeople rely on the ignorance of their customers to keep them solvent over the quality of work done. If there is anyone on this list willing to travel to Jasper and do quality work for fair pay, please let me know!

Our climate here will mean plenty of in-between days and nights with mild temps. Considering the previously posted photos and sq.footage, would those of you currently heating with a Heritage think that you would rather have bought a Mansfield? The nearest Hearthstone rep is recommending the larger unit. Will the milder weather give me problems with overheating if I burn hot enough to keep thechimney cleaner? The reviews for the Fireview seem to indicate that it would heat my space well enough--and there is currently no other choice as I read their size recommendations. The Jotul Oslo still is a possibility, but the next larger unit is also pushed by it's sales rep.... Guess our home is right on the cusp, size wise.

I thank folks for the suggestions on fitting the hearth in the corner. I don't believe that will be practical because it will mean roof bracing of impressive length, considering the height of the peak and the strength of our winds!

Click to expand...

The Heritage is one stove we seriously considered buying when we bought our last stove but now we are very happy that we did not. But I can certainly understand why you would consider it.

On the Woodstock stove, I can't see any reason any carpenter would hesitate installing any stove, no matter the manufacturer. Each stove manufacturer will have the specifics of installing and list clearances, etc. so that should be no problem. As for buying sight unseen, I do understand the hesitation but with the guarantee that is offered, you are risking no dollars. Woodstock has an excellent track record even on buy backs. They won't balk but will do everything they can to make you a satisfied customer. If they can't, they will buy it back.

Also for the worries on keeping the chimney cleaner, of course the first and biggest key is the fuel. If you have good fuel, the Fireview will not clog up your chimney. For example, I think I may have stated this but previously we used to clean our chimney 3-4 times every winter. After getting the Fireview, we cleaned the chimney just for kicks after two full winters use to get about a cup of soot. Also, we use the stove a lot simply because it is our only source of heat. And when we installed the Fireview we suddenly found we used only half the amount of wood we used to burn and stay a whole lot warmer.

One more thing. Please take the time to call Woodstock and ask if they have a customer near you. If they do and/or if the customer will allow it, they can set you up to visit some folks to see the stove and talk about it. This is the route we took and it was the final selling point because of what this particular customer told us. Some of the stories this man told us are so fantastic that I won't even post them. Also, he is a very prominent business man and at one time many years before I had done some business with him and also with some of his relatives. I just had to believe him so we bought the stove. Now for sure I do believe everything he told us and we never once considered sending the stove back. I will say there are a couple of folks here on hearth.com who have returned their stoves and had no problem whatsoever with them. One person is Wendell so if you look him up he can give you the particulars as he has had the experience with this company and no hard feelings whatsoever.

Just my $ 0.02 worth, but I'd vote for an interior installation with the pipe running up the middle of the window or possibly a 45 and 45 degree elbow at the top. if you run it inside you don't have to use double wall and it would be much cheaper, and you have the added heat from the pipe. I did a through the cealing installation through the attic and near the peak of the roof, running double wall going through the cealing and out the roof. When i clean it, i have a slip pipe above the first section and can raise the pipe or take off a section. I put a plastic bag on the bottom and ram the pipe from above. or, I have the choice from doing it from the bottom doing basicly the same thing. Granted i don't have a situation like yours but it appears the window provides mostly light anyway, not much of a view. I'd also get a size bigger stove than you need. You can always run a less than full load. Or, you can run a full load and burn it slower, as long as you don't make creasote.

jmho....by the way, have an extra room? Love the house. You are one lucky man!

cass

I wouldn't let the factors like a need for bracing decide for you, that's pretty do-able with some forethought. I regularly have moderate winds - 40-60 mph sustained, with much higher gusts and nothing to stop them (part of the reason for lots of wind power out here), and my chimney's held up fine for the past couple years. No draft problems, though I'm sure it affects every setup differently.

tcassavaugh said:

if you run it inside you don't have to use double wall and it would be much cheaper, and you have the added heat from the pipe


jmho....by the way, have an extra room? Love the house. You are one lucky man!

cass

Click to expand...

[clears throat] Woman. OP is female. That is a pretty place, isn't it?

Good point about the single wall and the extra heat. Even with the class A running through my upstairs living room, it throughs off more heat than the baseboard ever did.

I think I've read that there's not much heat output from the pipe relative to the stove using single wall, I'm sure someone can correct me though. I thought most of the newer stoves are designed be more efficient and keep more heat in the stove, so I'm not sure I'd let that sway a decision about what pipe to use... especially since most of it will be rising straight up high where you won't really notice it, the wood will produce the same amount of heat and it will all rise whether from the stove or the pipe, though I'd definitely appreciate someone smarter correcting me. In fact, aren't Englander clearance specs actually farther using double wall than single?

snowleopard said:

tcassavaugh said:

if you run it inside you don't have to use double wall and it would be much cheaper, and you have the added heat from the pipe


jmho....by the way, have an extra room? Love the house. You are one lucky man!

cass

Click to expand...

[clears throat] Woman. OP is female. That is a pretty place, isn't it?

Good point about the single wall and the extra heat. Even with the class A running through my upstairs living room, it throughs off more heat than the baseboard ever did.

Click to expand...

oops....sorry, no offence intended. still a very nice place.

cass

Firebug, The great room in my home is similar to yours but my ceiling is not quite as high nor my roof quite so steep. My stove wood stove is located against the back wall (with code compliant clearances) and centered under the ridge of the roof - appears to be about the same location as your current fireplace. My stove looks about as nice as possible in this location and is very effective heating the great room. Your two ceiling fans will be most effective at circulating the heat in that room. Both of my ceiling fans run 24/7 during the burning months. They are on low speed and blow "up".

This stove location allows me to have stovepipe and chimney in a straight line (no bends) through the ridge of the roof. The chimney is enclosed in a chase where it penetrates the ridge. This exterior chase structure prevents any water penetration. Last fall, during a heavy rain with 40 - 50 mph winds the chase prevented any water penetration.

As another poster suggested, I wouldn't worry about the stove pipe running in front of the octagonal window. I favor a symmetrical look in home design and in your lovely home (love the design and location) the stove would be centered against the wall and the stove pipe would be centered relative to the octagonal window. The stove pipe would penetrate the ceiling at its highest point. To me, the symmetry of the installation would be simple and balanced. I like that.

I would not be so bold as to suggest my way is the best way. Just explaining my installation and how pleased I am with the results. I am also very happy with the stove choice I made. It is quite effective providing enough heat to my 1,700 sq. ft. home which is located in an unprotected high wind area. I burn about 4 full cords of seasoned ash and cherry each year. You should burn less than that in Arkansas.

Good luck with whatever decisions you make.

John_M said:

Firebug, The great room in my home is similar to yours but my ceiling is not quite as high nor my roof quite so steep. My stove wood stove is located against the back wall (with code compliant clearances) and centered under the ridge of the roof - appears to be about the same location as your current fireplace. My stove looks about as nice as possible in this location and is very effective heating the great room. . . . This stove location allows me to have stovepipe and chimney in a straight line (no bends) through the ridge of the roof. The chimney is enclosed in a chase where it penetrates the ridge.

Click to expand...

Hi John,

Hope this doesn't constitute a threadjack, but I am curious about your post and the design process of your installation. From the description, it sounds like your ridge beam was cut. I've got some questions about that, if you don't mind going into details about this. Is it load-bearing, or just collared in with ties to give the rafters something to bear against? Did installers (or you, if you did the work yourself) span the chase with reinforcing members to compensate for the cut? If so, what did you use? What is your ridgebeam made of? Did you consider an offset to avoid cutting the ridge? What kind of snowloads do you have to deal with?

Not a carpenter or architect here, so kindly keep explanations simple. I'm just curious about how that works, structurally speaking.

I agree that visual balance is important--just think that symmetry is only one of several ways to acheive that. It's terrific that with CAD and Photoshop, we have the ability now to so easily check out a variety of options on paper before making irrevocable decisions. And then, of course, there's cutting a cardboard box to size and dragging that around to see how it looks. :coolsmile:

moosetrek said:

I think I've read that there's not much heat output from the pipe relative to the stove using single wall, I'm sure someone can correct me though. I thought most of the newer stoves are designed be more efficient and keep more heat in the stove, so I'm not sure I'd let that sway a decision about what pipe to use... especially since most of it will be rising straight up high where you won't really notice it, the wood will produce the same amount of heat and it will all rise whether from the stove or the pipe, though I'd definitely appreciate someone smarter correcting me. In fact, aren't Englander clearance specs actually farther using double wall than single?

Click to expand...

Hi moosetrek,

I'm just speculating here, but I think the fact that it's an EPA stove would suggest that a double-wall to the ceiling would be recommended so as to keep the stove pipe warmer, and thus cleaner. I didn't intend to suggest that single-wall would be preferable, but rather that class A wouldn't be needed until the ceiling. Also, if the fans are being run to keep heat down on the first floor, they'd catch some of that heat from the stovepipe as well.

snowleapord, I'll address this to firebug so it will not constitute too much of a thread hijack. My roof is engineered to Region 6 (the heaviest?) snow load requirements. In addition to the engineering, I ordered extra trusses and placed them all on 16" rather than 24" centers.

Firebug, The main structure of my roof is manufactured trusses so a structural ridge beam was not a concern. However, if your roof is constructed of a ridge beam with rafters, and it appears it might be, I would strongly recommend you or those you hire consult a building engineer before cutting a ridge beam. That modification to the roof structure is do-able and would PROBABLY not be too much of an expense. The roof's proper structural strength must be maintained.

Whatever you decide to do, my recommendation is to do the installation your favorite way. If your favorite way costs a couple of extra dollars and involves extra work, it is my opinion that spending the extra dollars and doing the extra work, within reason, at the beginning is worth it. There have been times at a younger age when I cut corners to save time and/or money and five years later was kicking myself in the butt for being so stupid.

Just my $.02. ;-)